Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think the US Marshals can knock on your door and "ask" for it.Can the FAA immediately pull someone's ticket for behavior like that?
I think the US Marshals can knock on your door and "ask" for it.Can the FAA immediately pull someone's ticket for behavior like that?
I have heard of such a thing as emergency revocation. How immediate it is, I don't know.Can the FAA immediately pull someone's ticket for behavior like that?
It is possible it was a medical problem. Unlikely, but possible.
It still takes a report from the FSDO to the legal group and the issuance of an emergency revocation order which is appealable to the NTSB on a shortened timeline.Can the FAA immediately pull someone's ticket for behavior like that?
I have heard of such a thing as emergency revocation. How immediate it is, I don't know.
I think the US Marshals can knock on your door and "ask" for it.
Let's be honest. He bought a 210... This should have got him a bravo clearance anywhere he wanted to go...
We know about Ford's taxiway incident, where he ignorantly endangered over 100 people in that 737, and his next screw-up action about a year later where he ignorantly endangered the flying public by crossing an active runway without clearance. In other words...two ignorant violations on the part of a once-beloved movie star is what we are dealing with. What about WIFE-APPROVED LLC? He appears to fly a lot...doe HE have a record of other ignorant violations and crashes like Harrison Ford does?I don’t think there is a need for an emergency revocation, but definitely discipline. As a side note, Harrison Ford didn’t do anything intentionally, but this guy willfully (or ignorantly?) did. So, a willful or ignorant violation is what we dealing with. His attitude is what is getting all the attention. It sucked and it should play into the motivation to get the process started.
He certainly appears to be vastly more dangerous to the flying public than WIFE-APPROVED LLC.
Yeah, I really think that senility and inability to follow ATC instructions in complicated airspace, with a history of multiple incidents, is "vastly more dangerous to the flying public" than some guy, as far as you know, who ONCE busted Bravo airspace and happened to be a dick to ATC on the radio. I'm pretty amazed that YOUR outlook is such that you don't see it that way. I'll rethink it if and when you can demonstrate that W-A LLC has a history with FSDO and THEN might be able to equate the two.So, you really think a pilot who makes a mistake (and one which has been made numerous times by other pilots at that very airport) is "vastly more dangerous to the flying public" than a pilot who is knowingly, intentionally violating a FAR and combatatively disregarding ATC direction in controlled airspace?
Interesting outlook.
So, you really think a pilot who makes a mistake (and one which has been made numerous times by other pilots at that very airport) is "vastly more dangerous to the flying public" than a pilot who is knowingly, intentionally violating a FAR and combatatively disregarding ATC direction in controlled airspace?
Interesting outlook.
I was told my 210 came with a Bravo clearance.
(in a whiny voice) the whole point of buying a 210 was to have the clearance.
I'm worried about both, but I'm more worried about an aging pilot that repeatedly CAN'T follow ATC instructions.While both types of errors (unintentional vs intentional/arrogant) are obviously bad, I am more afraid of errors due to arrogance and hubris.
two ignorant violations on the part of a once-beloved movie star is what we are dealing with.
You don’t think the Wife guy endangered numerous aircraft by intentionally cutting through the very busy terminal airspace, and not following ATC direction?We know about Ford's taxiway incident, where he ignorantly endangered over 100 people in that 737, and his next screw-up action about a year later where he ignorantly endangered the flying public by crossing an active runway without clearance. In other words...two ignorant violations on the part of a once-beloved movie star is what we are dealing with. What about WIFE-APPROVED LLC? He appears to fly a lot...doe HE have a record of other ignorant violations and crashes like Harrison Ford does?
Just looking for context here....being a dick will, no doubt, figure in eventually, but that is a job for the FSDO, certainly not the US Marshall.
You're reaching pretty hard if you think that that's what I said.You don’t think the Wife guy endangered numerous aircraft by intentionally cutting through the very busy terminal airspace, and not following ATC direction?
I wonder if he filed a NASA ASRS report?
I also had the impression that the pilot of N731NR somehow thought that he could enter the Bravo airspace once he had established two-way radio communications with the controller. But even in Charlie or Delta airspace, if the controller tells you to get out of the airspace, you can't just disregard that instruction. And, if the registered agent whose address is also the principal office and mailing address of the LLC that owns the plane was in fact flying, it seems incredible that someone holding a commercial pilot license with ASEL, ASES, AMEL, and instrument ratings, apparently based at KTOA in some of the most complicated airspace in the country including plenty of Bravo, could manage to escape the knowledge that a specific clearance is required to enter Bravo airspace.We listening to LiveATC again, it seems likely N731NR was confused by the type of clearance required.
He says “I’ve been talking to you for the last 15 minutes”. Sounds like the guy thought he established 2-way radio communications to clear Charlie airspace while actually in Bravo airspace with the Charlie protocol.
It's just a matter of perspective and phrasing. "The Approach controller tricked me into flying into the Bravo airspace. She was talking to me all night and seemed okay with how things were going. But once I got a few miles into the airspace, she completely changed her tune and suddenly started screaming at me to get out. She even had some other guy there who called me an A-hole."Wouldn't cover willful non-compliance.
(in a whiny voice) the whole point of buying a 210 was to have the clearance.
Personally, I would be satisfied if the wife-approved guy gets some counseling on the relevant regulations, provided that he sees the error of his ways in the process.You mean, like, without due process?
Harrison Ford landed on a taxiway at John Wayne KSNA that was occupied by a 737. He certainly appears to be vastly more dangerous to the flying public than WIFE-APPROVED LLC. Ford was eventually required to complete "awareness training", no marshals, no certificate action of any kind. I'm trying, but failing, to understand the perspective y'all are bringing to the conversation here. Taken in context, a public lynching with the aid of the US Marshall's service seems a bit of an overreaction.
I'm not seeing the ignorance in those violations.We know about Ford's taxiway incident, where he ignorantly endangered over 100 people in that 737, and his next screw-up action about a year later where he ignorantly endangered the flying public by crossing an active runway without clearance. In other words...two ignorant violations on the part of a once-beloved movie star is what we are dealing with....
That would qualify as a bag of lame excuses in my book.It's just a matter of perspective and phrasing. "The Approach controller tricked me into flying into the Bravo airspace. She was talking to me all night and seemed okay with how things were going. But once I got a few miles into the airspace, she completely changed her tune and suddenly started screaming at me to get out. She even had some other guy there who called me an A-hole."
Generally speaking, it's unusual that a cognizant and knowledgeable pilot would accidentally land on an occupied taxiway at a major airport. At least around here. Maybe things are different in California.I'm not seeing the ignorance in those violations.
It's just a matter of perspective and phrasing. "The Approach controller tricked me into flying into the Bravo airspace. She was talking to me all night and seemed okay with how things were going. But once I got a few miles into the airspace, she completely changed her tune and suddenly started screaming at me to get out. She even had some other guy there who called me an A-hole."
Cognitive decline (if that's what it was) is not the same thing as ignorance.Generally speaking, it's unusual that a cognizant and knowledgeable pilot would accidentally land on an occupied taxiway at a major airport. At least around here. Maybe things are different in California.
That would qualify as a bag of lame excuses in my book.
I can't even blame the lack of a <SARCASM> tag in the HTML specification, because even in person people mistake my unfunny style of humor for sincerity.Except there wasn't a whole bunch of calls between N731NR and KLAS Approach, just the initial contact (without a clearance request and without a clearance given).
I'm not saying you believe your quote above (and, of course, I mighted have missed other communication between N731NR and Approach)...
Generally speaking, it's unusual that a cognizant and knowledgeable pilot would accidentally land on an occupied taxiway at a major airport. At least around here. Maybe things are different in California.
No big deal. The FSDO-approved remedial action for taxiway landings is apparently just completion of "awareness training" and no certificate action.Unusual, certainly. But here is an even higher-profile example (a Continental 777 with 154 on board landing on a taxiway at Newark). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Airlines_Flight_1883
This one sticks in my mind because it happened shortly before--and not far from--my check ride. My DPE was a retired 747 captain for another airline, and she worked a lot of questions about distinguishing taxiways from runways into my oral exam. Each time I answered correctly she'd exclaim: "See! You know the difference! How could they not know the difference!"
It happens due to inattention or distraction. The layout at SNA is more confusing than most parallel runway setups so, if it's going to happen, I'm not surprised that it was at SNA.Generally speaking, it's unusual that a cognizant and knowledgeable pilot would accidentally land on an occupied taxiway at a major airport.
B757. The distinction is important because the B777 pays a lot more than the 757...Unusual, certainly. But here is an even higher-profile example (a Continental 777 with 154 on board landing on a taxiway at Newark).
It happens due to inattention or distraction. The layout at SNA is more confusing than most parallel runway setups so, if it's going to happen, I'm not surprised that it was at SNA.
B757. The distinction is important because the B777 pays a lot more than the 757...
I find that works well enough for that purpose.I can't even blame the lack of a <SARCASM> tag in the HTML specification, because even in person people mistake my unfunny style of humor for sincerity.
Ford was handled under the Compliance Program which treats "honest mistakes" and "unintentional errors" as things which can be treated with counseling and training. Ford's attitude and remorse from the second he was told about in made him a perfect candidate.We know about Ford's taxiway incident, where he ignorantly endangered over 100 people in that 737, and his next screw-up action about a year later where he ignorantly endangered the flying public by crossing an active runway without clearance. In other words...two ignorant violations on the part of a once-beloved movie star is what we are dealing with. What about WIFE-APPROVED LLC? He appears to fly a lot...doe HE have a record of other ignorant violations and crashes like Harrison Ford does?
Just looking for context here....being a dick will, no doubt, figure in eventually, but that is a job for the FSDO, certainly not the US Marshall.
Actually, that's the official FAA-approved method under the Compliance Program orders.No big deal. The FSDO-approved remedial action for taxiway landings is apparently just completion of "awareness training" and no certificate action.