All traffic in the area, please advise

“Skylane 1234. Closing time. Don’t have to go home but can’t stay here. I’mmmmmmm out of here!”
 
AV8R_87 said:
So, what's everyone using when checking in with the next controller?
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Huh? "Approach, Bugsmasher N12345, six-thousand five-hundred."

Optional "good morning" based on how congested the frequency congestion is.

"With you," "last call," "25 miles SW of airfield heading for a 3.3 nm 45 to left downwind for runway 10," putting "traffic" again at the conclusion of the transmission, are all just a waste of space. In 90% of places, no matter, but in congested airspace it eats up bandwidth.

While the majors aren't perfect either, listening to their transmissions can give a clue.
 
AV8R_87 said:
So, what's everyone using when checking in with the next controller?
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“Cessna 12345. Level four thousand five hundred.”

No need for an extra “ummm,” “uhhh,” or the equally devoid of content “with you.”

I do admit to using “with you” sometimes in one situation. When I’m reading back an instruction where the controller says “with you.” As in…
Tower: Exit Taxiway Delta 4. Stay with me.”​
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I never really understood the disdain for “With you.”
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It’s harmless but y’know useless. The disdain I’ve y’know, seen y’know through the years y’know has y’know been about pilots y’know thinking it y’know means something and y’know defending it as a y’know good form of y’know communication.
 
I always looked at it as being polite. But after years of listening to the radio police complain about it I’ve become all business about it.

Sigh.

Not that I have much opportunity to use it anymore.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I always looked at it as being polite. But after years of listening to the radio police complain about it I’ve become all business about it.

Sigh.

Not that I have much opportunity to use it anymore.
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"Good morning" when the frequency allows for it (remember they are often working two frequencies - if you don't hear certain responses, that's one reason why) is polite; "with you" is just redundant. Fly in NYC airspace for a bit where every electron is in use and try it.

Also, when boring holes on a known course and altitude and there's no response to the check-in, give it a minute or two before calling in two more times. Often ATC has heard, but getting you the current altimeter setting is not their current highest priority.
 
Hang 4 said:
Not sure what ADSB has to do with ATITAPA. Just listen to the CTAF and build a picture of what's going on. Announce at around 10 miles out and listen some more. Not that big of a deal, and better learning for students to build that situational awareness without asking.
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People try to justify using ATITAPA as a means of "building a traffic picture in their mind" around a non-towered airport. I suggested that ADS-B would be a much better means of getting the traffic picture and it doesn't cause unnecessary frequency congestion.

Yes, I'm aware not all aircraft have ADS-B Out and thus will not show up on ADS-B traffic displays. On that note, some people don't know how to use the traffic display filters (Above/Below/Normal/Unrestricted), and thus will not see desired traffic because they don't have the correct filter setting active.

But this is exactly the same as not all aircraft (a) having com radios on board, (b) some of the responding aircraft's transmissions being stepped on by other responding aircraft, and (c) not every pilot caring to respond to that stupid call. Thus ATITAPA cannot be relied upon for "building a mental traffic picture".

Nothing is a substitute for EYES OUTSIDE. ADS-B is a tool which aids with see and avoid. But it is by no means a substitute for it.

The AIM and AC 90-66C both state that ATITAPA should not be used under any condition. There's a reason for that, and a very good one. The prevailing argument to this is "the AIM and AC's are not regulations". These people are the very problem, and the kinds of people who don't care to recognize the difference between legal and safe.

That said, I'm definitely no bootlicker and feel the FAA has overstepped immensely and needs to be reigned in and stripped of some power in lots of areas. In other areas, they do get it right, and this is one such area. But people such as the type I describe above is exactly why the government just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Because we can't seem to police ourselves. But I digress.

Zeldman said:
I have found that sometimes the offending person making that call often stops looking for traffic when no one responds.
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This right here! ATITAPA breeds complacency.
 
"ATITAPA" is a call-up for goofballs. "Last call" is unnecessary, but it's short enough where it's not an annoyance.

Radio calls that slightly grind my gears are the 10+ second proclamation of pilot intentions: "Porter County traffic, Cessna 123AB is a 152, I'm 15 miles south east at three-thousand-five-hundred feet and starting my descent, I will be overflying the field 500 feet above pattern altitude and then I'll be joining midfield right downwind for runway 18 and will be doing a touch and go and then I'll be staying in the pattern".

Ain't no one got time for that. And no one is going to remember those intentions 2 years later when the Cessna finally makes it into the pattern.

Another annoyance is pilots at night who make their first radio call and then start using CTAF to trigger the lights when they're 15 ******** miles away and I'm on final

OK, so maybe there are some radio calls that irk me a bit.

And on that note... It should warm up shortly, so almost time to pull out the plane and go do a Sunday breakfast run :cool:!
 
If the arriving pilot would switch to the CTAF frequency early enough and simply listen for a few minutes before transmitting, he should have heard from anybody likely to reply to an ATITPPA call and have a picture of the situation. Occasionally if I get closer in and can't spot the traffic that should be there, I'll call, "Cessna 86K, where are you now?"

I don't remember ever hearing it in the late 70s - early 80s, then I flew exclusively NORDO or didn't fly until around 2000 or so when I put a radio in my ultralight. I don't think I've heard it more than once or twice since then, maybe it's not as common in New England.

And yeah, I'm one of those guys with no ADSB and no transponder and no requirement for it even in the veil... and while I try to be correct on CTAF calls (though let's not get started on type/color vs. N-number), if I arrive at the airport and find the battery in my handheld is dead, I'll be NORDO, too.
 
iamtheari said:
You would get the same information from "departing xxxx" without the "last call" nonsense, though. :)
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It’s not nonsense - for some of us it means - I’m still a potential threat but switching frequencies NOW - for instance if you need to get a particular clearance not to bust airspace in front of you.
 
Jon Wilder said:
People try to justify using ATITAPA as a means of "building a traffic picture in their mind" around a non-towered airport. I suggested that ADS-B would be a much better means of getting the traffic picture and it doesn't cause unnecessary frequency congestion.
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Just listening to CTAF a ways out does the same thing.
 
I suppose last call might be useful if you just joined frequency and didn't hear the preceding transmissions
 
frfly172 said:
Cessna 1234 15 mile final any traffic please advise. Goes over well at a non towered training airport.
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Reminds me of a time I was in the FBO for Harvey (Snohomish, WA). The guy ahead of me was returning his rental 172 keys. I heard him tell the gal at the counter “I would have had it back sooner, but the guy ahead of me in the pattern turned base to final for 33 somewhere south of Tacoma…”
 
Racerx said:
I suppose last call might be useful if you just joined frequency and didn't hear the preceding transmissions
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Or specifically - say you know someone just made a call 5 to the West and is inbound and you are exiting to the east but need to switch to approach and say “Small town traffic N1234G departed 35 left crosswind leaving 2500 for 3500 West-bound small town last call.”
 
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I'm increasingly a fan of giving minutes-out on the initial call-up and I appreciate when others do it, since it gives me a rough idea of when they'll be entering the pattern. Distance is great, but a Cub vs a Cirrus is a very different proposition in terms of when I expect to see them.

Otherwise it's just tail-number/location/altitude, and then listen for other traffic calls to begin to build that mental picture until my eyeballs become primary.
 
ATITAPA. Much ado about nothing in my opinion. Inbound to an uncontrolled field on a straight-in, I'll monitor the frequency. If I don't hear anything, I'll ask if there's anyone in the pattern. Surprising number of times, someone will fess up to being in the pattern. Instructors tend to blather on and on to students and they forget to make radio calls. I do get annoyed in busy patterns when someone on the ground announces on CTAF they're taxiing from the tiedowns to the fuel pit and plan on departing to the west vfr to Podunk Airfield after getting fuel. Who cares? I'd rather hear airborne traffic calls.
 
If y'all could hear how inefficient radio communication on Coast Guard working frequencies is, your heads would spin...and hurt. As a pilot (and radio guy) it drives me nuts listening to our own radios. On FM frequencies "Coast Guard 45678, 45678, 45678 this is Coast Guard Sector Maryland-National Capitol Region, Sector Maryland-National Capitol Region, request ops and position on CG127, over." :mad2: Or my personal pet peeve that my crew knows I hate "Roger, good copy, nothing further, station out." :mad3:

Regarding SEEYAH, my understanding was that was used pretty commonly by military pilots but it seems to be the cool thing now...akin to meowing on Guard.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I always looked at it as being polite. But after years of listening to the radio police complain about it I’ve become all business about it.

Sigh.
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That's so funny. It was years ago I saw a similar post to that. "It's a friendly greeting," was the defense. I suggested they go into a biker bar, take a stool, turn to the guy next to them and try, "with you" as a friendly greeting. Just to be polite :D

I'm long past being upset about it, although I have to admit cringing and smacking the odd client or two if they use it on an instructional flight. But not as often as "clear of the active," not as hard as "last call," and with my hand rather than this :D
AnyTrafficBat.png
 
I don’t like AITPA, but fly with an old school guy who will announce it and then apologizes to me for using it - old habits and all. We are all guilty of something. If someone says it, I’ll respond with my intentions. I suppose I can be guilty of not announcing my tail number very often, but to be fair I fly less common types (Pilatus, Twin Comanche, etc).

eman1200 said:
ATC: “eman, switch to my freq on 169.69”



eman: “eman with you on 169.69”
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I like “transmitting on 169.69” not sure where it came from? Maybe calling FSS?
 
We have a new trainee watch supervisor who loves to say “see ya” and it drives me up a wall. He can screw up his transmissions, needlessly verify information the pilot just told him and just generally be a cowboy on the radio but he sure as hell gets that “see ya” in at the end.

I’m more of a “contact departure, so long” guy
 
Maybe this is because the vast majority of airports I fly into have minimal if any traffic but I'm just happy someone is using the radio and altering me that they're in the area. I'm not really hung up on how they do it.
 
Omalley1537 said:
Reminds me of a time I was in the FBO for Harvey (Snohomish, WA). The guy ahead of me was returning his rental 172 keys. I heard him tell the gal at the counter “I would have had it back sooner, but the guy ahead of me in the pattern turned base to final for 33 somewhere south of Tacoma…”
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I apologized to a tower controller once for the late handoff from center and he just made some comment about "that's why they're called en route controllers."
 
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