All traffic in the area, please advise

MauleSkinner said:
“Eman1200 10 miles out, last first of many calls with you.”
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EMAN 1200 10 miles out. With you for the next 10 miles bringing you smooooth jazz and all the E Mann ness you can handle. Ohhhhh yeahhhhhhh. Talk to the E Mann. What’s on your mind today baby? Let the E Mann set sail with you on the sea of tranquility. Oh yeahhhhh.
 
AvNavCom said:
Interestingly, the OB guys say that ATC doesn't necessarily need to hear anything except an acknowledgement (i.e., tail number). Apparently ATC is required to call out the traffic, but no positive or negative response is required. I imagine that an "in sight" call would help calm their nerves if an alarm is squawking at them, but I guess it's not mandatory.
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Perhaps the negative comment is spurious, but the AIM calls out NEGATIVE CONTACT as being no confused with TRAFFIC IN SIGHT.
TRAFFIC IN SIGHT is indeed useful, because you can get visual separation if such is idendified.
 
I use last call as soon as I’m clear of the pattern and will be immediately switching to Approach/Center as a way to let other pilots know that if they try to verify my position I won’t hear them.

“Podunk Traffick, Skyhawk 12345 clear of the pattern departing to the east, last call Podunk.”
 
kaiser said:
What if you actually have him on the fish finder but not visually? (and you have "real" TCAS) I mean, if TCAS can give you RAs, then wouldn't the rest of the situational display be accurate enough to have them identified?
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flyingron said:
Does nothing for ATC.
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It also does nothing for “legal” identification of traffic. You’re not allowed to maneuver based on a TA only, and your RA maneuvering requirements have nothing to do with identification of the traffic.
 
flyingpreacher said:
I use last call as soon as I’m clear of the pattern and will be immediately switching to Approach/Center as a way to let other pilots know that if they try to verify my position I won’t hear them.

“Podunk Traffick, Skyhawk 12345 clear of the pattern departing to the east, last call Podunk.”
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“Switching to Departure” or some such would be a much more valuable use of airwaves, IMO.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Yes, I have counted syllables. Discerning aviators know that clarity is more important than syllable count.
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Switching to departure doesn't help someone that needs to be on CTAF. All that tells them is that you're changing frequencies and last call accomplishes the same thing. It also leaves the possibility that you're still in the vicinity, where departure implies you're out of there.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Switching to departure doesn't help someone that needs to be on CTAF. All that tells them is that you're changing frequencies and last call accomplishes the same thing. It also leaves the possibility that you're still in the vicinity, where departure implies you're out of there.
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Some airplanes have more than one radio…if they’re really concerned about you, they could monitor departure. But if you really must say you’re not going to talk on CTAF anymore, why not use standard phraseology and say, “out”?
 
MauleSkinner said:
Some airplanes have more than one radio…if they’re really concerned about you, they could monitor departure. But if you really must say you’re not going to talk on CTAF anymore, why not use standard phraseology and say, “out”?
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Because it doesn't imply what I actually am trying to imply. That's why.
 
Interesting. When leaving an untowered field around here, you’re in E, under the Bravo shelf. (Assuming you’re VFR).

The only freq switch I could do would be when I was approaching the next airport. We all stay on the freq for the current airport until we are out of the area.

Would never contact TRACON or Approach.
 
nauga said:
I don't use it and don't particularly care for it but hearing the call bothers me less than, say, using CTAF to coordinate a rental car or asking if anyone's seen Clarence recently and how's his dog doing?

Nauga,
ziplip
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I was flying one day with a fellow pilot when we heard a radio call, "Horseshoe Bay Unicom, this is Citation XXXX." This call was made over and over and over and we're tired of this resort airport using this frequency like it's their personal channel. Finally I'd had enough. I replied, "This is Horseshoe Bay Unicom, how can I help you today?" He replied that he had Mr. So-n-so and was inbound and wanted the Suburban started with the AC on." I replied, "The black Suburban". "No, the red one". "Gotcha, I'll fire it up right now." I'm guessing he was not a happy camper when he landed and Mr. So-n-So had to ride in a hot Suburban, but we didn't have to listen to his calls anymore!
 
MauleSkinner said:
Neither does “last call”. It goes back to clarity, we don’t want to imply, we want to say.
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I work in environments where radio brevity is extremely valuable. Last call is more meaningful than switching to approach and manages to express more with a shorter transmission. but this has gotten into a personal argument and I'm done trying to prove anything to you.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I work in environments where radio brevity is extremely valuable. Last call is more meaningful than switching to approach and manages to express more with a shorter transmission. but this has gotten into a personal argument and I'm done trying to prove anything to you.
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If you can’t keep from making it personal, then “last call.”
 
WDD said:
Interesting. When leaving an untowered field around here, you’re in E, under the Bravo shelf. (Assuming you’re VFR).

The only freq switch I could do would be when I was approaching the next airport. We all stay on the freq for the current airport until we are out of the area.

Would never contact TRACON or Approach.
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You would switch to departure (which may be provided by an ARTCC or by a nearby TRACON) if you were flying IFR or picking up flight following.

I don't think it helps anyone on CTAF to tell them what your next frequency is. If one is going to say "last call" or words to that effect, I think "last call" beats "changing to departure" every day of the week, because the latter is both verbose and ambiguous.
 
WHich leads to two other peeves. IFR traffic that doesn't give a meaningful position. The name of a fix means nothing to the VFR pilots. 3 miles out on the approach for runway 22 makes more sense.

Then there's the wannabe military crowd that calls an initial for an overhead break and then doesn't even bother to listen to the VFR guy who asks where that might be in position and altitude with respect to the airport.
 
flyingron said:
WHich leads to two other peeves. IFR traffic that doesn't give a meaningful position. The name of a fix means nothing to the VFR pilots. 3 miles out on the approach for runway 22 makes more sense.

Then there's the wannabe military crowd that calls an initial for an overhead break and then doesn't even bother to listen to the VFR guy who asks where that might be in position and altitude with respect to the airport.
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Was in the pattern Saturday doing touch-and-goes, when a flight of three RVs called in, inbound for an overhead break. I asked what their altitude would be, and lead replied they'd be at 1100 feet (100 feet above pattern altitude).

Lead called out some of the other aircraft in the pattern and worked out the timing. I went through with my touch-and-go, and when I broke ground the RVs came directly overhead, a thousand feet higher, with smoke turned on. Pretty cool. These guys, at least, did it right.

My only quibble is that the airport recently acquired a large flight-training operation (moved from Boeing Field). Might be a significant portion of the students (and probably the instructors) who don't know what an "overhead break" *is*....

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Was in the pattern Saturday doing touch-and-goes, when a flight of three RVs called in, inbound for an overhead break. I asked what their altitude would be, and lead replied they'd be at 1100 feet (100 feet above pattern altitude).

Lead called out some of the other aircraft in the pattern and worked out the timing. I went through with my touch-and-go, and when I broke ground the RVs came directly overhead, a thousand feet higher, with smoke turned on. Pretty cool. These guys, at least, did it right.

My only quibble is that the airport recently acquired a large flight-training operation (moved from Boeing Field). Might be a significant portion of the students (and probably the instructors) who don't know what an "overhead break" *is*....

Ron Wanttaja
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Well the initial is supposed to be pattern altitude, but the other problem is there's a bunch of the wannabes who have no clue what they're doing. "Initiali" isn't a precise location but a few miles downwind of the airport.
 
Any traffic in the area please advise ...

"I'm right over hear, look out the window, ... caution wake turbulence!"
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don't have a problem with that one and neither have the controllers I've spoken. To them, it's confirmation that "I heard you."
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Like I said all the non-standard phraseology ends up just meaning NEGATIVE CONTACT without the assurance that it is unambiguous. Why do we publish the AIM, PCAG, 7110.65 at all if we don't care what people say on the radio?
 
In my experience, asking for traffic advisories has been helpful. The AWOS at my home drone will often report wind calm when there is a clear runway preference indicated by the windsock. Hearing what runway traffic is using is useful information. I've had scary encounters with pilots flying against prevailing traffic to land on the opposite runway just because AWOS said the wind was calm. I don't know if the offending pilot just got the runway directions confused in their head, or if were just choosing a landing direction that would be more convenient for their hangar. Either way it was a dangerous move with a fair number of planes in the pattern. I just stopped flying on weekends after that. Too many weekend warriors that don't have their head fully in the game and many of whom are not proficient pilots.
 
Usually I have found that making my own position report usually wakes up those in the pattern that have been to lazy to make a report.

Note that at uncontrolled fields there is no ACTIVE runway. You use whatever one you think it appropriate. It's not uncommon that people have differing opinions as to what that is.
It's even more common to find lemmings landing downwind or into the sunset or whatever because the guy ahead of them did. It usually only takes someone speaking up to say "hey, why don't we use the other runway." to get things changed.
 
Dana said:
When I learned to fly (1970s) we were taught to call the unicom frequency and request "airport advisory" and you'd usually get a reply from somebody in the FBO. Nowadays it's rare to hear that request, and even rarer that the request gets answered.
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One time, I made a 10-mile-out radio call to an unfamiliar airport and subsequently got a runway and clearance to land. Confused the hell out of me, as it was an untowered airport. Really threw me for a moment. Turned out, the FBO guy was trying to be helpful and didn't realize that clearing people to land probably wasn't something he should be saying on the radio.
 
AvNavCom said:
One time, I made a 10-mile-out radio call to an unfamiliar airport and subsequently got a runway and clearance to land. Confused the hell out of me, as it was an untowered airport. Really threw me for a moment. Turned out, the FBO guy was trying to be helpful and didn't realize that clearing people to land probably wasn't something he should be saying on the radio.
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Yeah, but that can be fun for you and a buddy to do in the pattern at an uncontrolled field.

YOU - "Podunk tower, Bugsmasher 123AB, 5 miles south, landing Podunk."​
BUDDY - "123AB, enter right base runway 09. Wind 070 at 10 knots, altimeter 30.1"​
YOU - "123AB, right base for 09."​

And so on. Freaks the bejabbers out of other pilots on frequency.
:biggrin:
 
Half Fast said:
Yeah, but that can be fun for you and a buddy to do in the pattern at an uncontrolled field.

YOU - "Podunk tower, Bugsmasher 123AB, 5 miles south, landing Podunk."​
BUDDY - "123AB, enter right base runway 09. Wind 070 at 10 knots, altimeter 30.1"​
YOU - "123AB, right base for 09."​

And so on. Freaks the bejabbers out of other pilots on frequency.
:biggrin:
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Back before UNV got their control tower the Penn State guys used to pull that stunt all the time.
 
flyingron said:
Usually I have found that making my own position report usually wakes up those in the pattern that have been to lazy to make a report.
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I think I'm gonna stop with standard position reports and just call "Podunk traffic, Mooney six o'clock and a half mile doing 180 knots, any traffic in the area please advise." :D

Dana said:
When I learned to fly (1970s) we were taught to call the unicom frequency and request "airport advisory" and you'd usually get a reply from somebody in the FBO. Nowadays it's rare to hear that request, and even rarer that the request gets answered.
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I know of only one place that still answers such calls - Wisconsin Aviation at KRYV. They also have special training so that you can call them for clearance, they make the phone call to MSN and can issue you a clearance on CTAF. They use it for their charter operation but everyone else can take advantage too.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I was flying one day with a fellow pilot when we heard a radio call, "Horseshoe Bay Unicom, this is Citation XXXX." This call was made over and over and over and we're tired of this resort airport using this frequency like it's their personal channel. Finally I'd had enough. I replied, "This is Horseshoe Bay Unicom, how can I help you today?" He replied that he had Mr. So-n-so and was inbound and wanted the Suburban started with the AC on." I replied, "The black Suburban". "No, the red one". "Gotcha, I'll fire it up right now." I'm guessing he was not a happy camper when he landed and Mr. So-n-So had to ride in a hot Suburban, but we didn't have to listen to his calls anymore!
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I like it except some poor working stiff might have caught **** over it.
 
Wausau Flying Service will almost always answer any incoming calls with the wind, altimeter setting, and sometimes a traffic advisory if it is busy at the time.
 
RyanShort1 said:
Sometimes we don't have time for wordy conversations.
If you hear someone say last call, they are still a potential threat and you won't be talking to them.
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If you're saying that and you're still a potential threat, then there's a bigger issue.

And don't give me that you're IFR and you have to talk to ATC. If there's still a threat, they'd want you to be staying on the CTAF until you get a little higher and you do not need to be on CTAF anymore.
 
Must be a regional thing. You usually get the Unicom to answer an advisory request around here (provided they have a unicom). Sometimes it's counter productive as they'll often give you a preferred ruwnay which is not the one that the pattern is mostly using.
 
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