Who or what flights qualify for FF?

L. A. Kramer

L. A. Kramer

Filing Flight Plan
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Oct 12, 2022
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Boise, Idaho
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LA KRAMER
I'm from the sticks and planning a x-country flight that will take me near Class B or C airspace I am LSA. Assuming that I am under the shelf of the airspace, do I need to contact ATC for FF or simply ask for a traffic advisory?
 
L. A. Kramer said:
Who or what flights qualify for FF?
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There are no qualifications.
L. A. Kramer said:
do I need to contact ATC for FF
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If you want VFR traffic advisories aka flight following, you need to contact ATC; they are the only ones that can provide that service.

Is being on flight following required when under a shelf? No, but it's a good idea, especially if you're unfamiliar.

I'd get on flight following before you get to the bravo or charlie, that way the approach controllers know you're coming.

Welcome to PoA!
 
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L. A. Kramer said:
I'm from the sticks and planning a x-country flight that will take me near Class B or C airspace I am LSA. Assuming that I am under the shelf of the airspace, do I need to contact ATC for FF or simply ask for a traffic advisory?
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There is no functional difference between "Flight Following" and "Traffic Advisories".

You only "need" to get it if you're actually within the B/C airspace. But you "should" get it any time you're close.
 
The real "flight following" hasn't existed in decades. That was a term used where a radio station (think Flight Service back when that existed) would take periodic reports of pilots to alert in case something happened en route (rather than just waiting for the flight plan ETA to ass). But everybody knows you want VFR radar traffic advisories when you ask ATC for it.
 
flyingron said:
The real "flight following" hasn't existed in decades. That was a term used where a radio station (think Flight Service back when that existed) would take periodic reports of pilots to alert in case something happened en route (rather than just waiting for the flight plan ETA to ass). But everybody knows you want VFR radar traffic advisories when you ask ATC for it.
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That's actually something I've wondered in recent years, if Flight Service was still a thing. Flying out of a TRSA spoiled me the last few years and I never got far enough away to worry about giving FS a try.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
That's actually something I've wondered in recent years, if Flight Service was still a thing. Flying out of a TRSA spoiled me the last few years and I never got far enough away to worry about giving FS a try.
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FSS still exists, in case that’s what you were asking?
 
Flight Service still exists, and they are very happy to speak with you on the phone or on the radio. Their jobs depend on it.

Those of us old enough remember face to face weather briefings and filing flight plans in the many flight service stations around the country. Later, they consolidated to one in each state, and telephone briefings and filing became common. And now just three for the entire nation. You can still file by phone, but most are using apps these days. I don't do much cross country anymore, but I like to get an online briefing and then call and speak to a real live person and see if they add anything to what I have already learned.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
That's actually something I've wondered in recent years, if Flight Service was still a thing. Flying out of a TRSA spoiled me the last few years and I never got far enough away to worry about giving FS a try.
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Flight Service still exists, but Flight Watch went away as a seperate thing a few years ago, with some of its functions getting rolled into FSS.
 
You can get flight following whenever you ask for it...provided atc can accommodate. I've never been denied and I'm inside a mode c veil...but they will give you some annoying vectors at times.

You can fly fat dumb and happy and not talk to anyone as long as you're out of, above, or under the airspace. Do not recommend, especially for a xc in unfamiliar airspace.

On a cross country flight dial up approach after departing and tell em where you're going.
 
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Half Fast said:
Flight Service still exists, but Flight Watch went away as a seperate thing a few years ago, with some of its functions getting rolled into FSS.
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My memory’s fading, but wasn’t Flight Watch just a nationwide single frequency (at least below the flight levels) to contact FSS?
 
I would highly recommend requesting radar advisories when traveling cross-country, especially near class B or C airspace. Class C is usually no problem, but occasionally you may get routed around class B. Being in contact with ATC is much better for emergencies than filing a VFR flight plan, and if your destination is a controlled airport, you (normally) get a smooth handoff to tower. There is no requirement other than just asking on the proper frequency. Most Approach facilities are very friendly and helpful.
 
MauleSkinner said:
My memory’s fading, but wasn’t Flight Watch just a nationwide single frequency (at least below the flight levels) to contact FSS?
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It went away before I started flying, but I believe FW just handled wx and PIREPS. No opening or closing or amending flight plans or other FSS services.
 
flyingron said:
The real "flight following" hasn't existed in decades. That was a term used where a radio station (think Flight Service back when that existed) would take periodic reports of pilots to alert in case something happened en route (rather than just waiting for the flight plan ETA to ass). But everybody knows you want VFR radar traffic advisories when you ask ATC for it.
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Dunno about decades ago. I don’t think it’s been very much more than about 10 years or so ago they did away with the Great Lakes and Everglades crossing Flight Following programs.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
Flight Service still exists, and they are very happy to speak with you on the phone or on the radio. Their jobs depend on it.

Those of us old enough remember face to face weather briefings and filing flight plans in the many flight service stations around the country. Later, they consolidated to one in each state, and telephone briefings and filing became common. And now just three for the entire nation. You can still file by phone, but most are using apps these days. I don't do much cross country anymore, but I like to get an online briefing and then call and speak to a real live person and see if they add anything to what I have already learned.
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I figured it did, that's why I was a little confused by the post I quoted. Pretty sure the last time I called a briefer was around 2010.

*ETA: Ahh, read it too fast, he was talking about calling up on frequency.
 
L. A. Kramer said:
I'm from the sticks and planning a x-country flight that will take me near Class B or C airspace I am LSA. Assuming that I am under the shelf of the airspace, do I need to contact ATC for FF or simply ask for a traffic advisory?
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If you're a sport pilot, I think you have to have an endorsement to enter class B airspace.
 
L. A. Kramer said:
I'm from the sticks and planning a x-country flight that will take me near Class B or C airspace I am LSA. Assuming that I am under the shelf of the airspace, do I need to contact ATC for FF or simply ask for a traffic advisory?
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Prior to ADS-B my local area had erratic radar coverage below 4000 feet. So there wasn't any sense asking for flight following if the flight was short and was going to be less than 4000 feet. If the flight is longer than that and you're flying higher than that then flight following is available and it makes sense to ask for it. Even though the radar coverage is better now I still use those general guidelines when deciding whether or not to ask for flight following. Right or wrong that's what I do.
 
L. A. Kramer said:
I'm from the sticks and planning a x-country flight that will take me near Class B or C airspace I am LSA. Assuming that I am under the shelf of the airspace, do I need to contact ATC for FF or simply ask for a traffic advisory?
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Here is another point you might want to consider. While planning your flight it is better to remain outside of class Bravo and Charlie airspaces where possible. That means flying beside or above to remain clear. Yes you can fly underneath the shelf but if you inadvertently bust through the airspace from the bottom-up you could end up in a very high traffic situation and have a mid air collision. Flying under the shelf also means your flight path is restricted both horizontally and vertically which means you don't have as many options should you determine you need them.
 
You may want to ask for transition through class Bravo airspace. If you do, ask for a specific point-to-point line at a specific altitude. An acceptable request might be as follows: Detroit approach November 1935 Yankee Request class Bravo transition from Delta uniform hotel direct to 2 Echo 8 at 8500. They do not have to approve your request or allow you access to class Bravo. The last time I made this request it was granted at altitude 6500 or above. If you are already on flight following you're already squawking and talking all you have to have is permission to enter at that point.
 
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I used flight following most of the time in Alaska, filing VFR flight plans the old fashioned way. Flying in mostly deep valleys prohibits radar coverage and it's also one place where you'd like to be found in a reasonable time if you don't arrive at your destination.

I remember when there were lots of areas even in the lower forty eight that had no radar coverage and that there were specific reporting points to relay back to ATC when you crossed them.
 
I am going to recommend a training flight with a CFI flight into a nearby Class C with flight following all the way. We get so used to this stuff, we forget how daunting it can be.

I did one of those a few months ago. The pilot asked for it because they had little to no Class C experience, had used only limited Flight Following and was planning a trip into one much further away. So, we did the whole thing, including landing at the Class C, and pulling into the ramp to get our departure instructions. Pilot said they learned an incredible amount from the experience.

BTW, to answer the question in the topic title, all flights.All pilots.
 
midlifeflyer said:
BTW, to answer the question in the topic title, all flights.All pilots.
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Not to choose nits, but all flights? Nordo? Ultralight? Drones? Rockets?

A transponder is required? At least a radio?
 
Yes, getting radar advisories on a cross country is a fine idea and will supplement your situational awareness.

That being said, I would never choose to fly under a shelf on a XC flight unless for some reason there are no other options. If there are other airports under those shelves, which is common under Bravos, you get a really tight margin to work with to stay out of their patterns and traffic and not bust the Bravo. For Bravos, I would ask for a transition or fly around (also, the big Bravos have VFR flyways you should consider to keep you out of approach/departure corridors). Charlies or smaller, I generally plan to go over them on a XC.

An example I deal with nearly every flight is the southwest side of the ORD bravo. Especially when MDW is landing 04. You have a train of Southwest flights on approach descending to around 4000' at the shelf, no less than 8 (3 Deltas) airports under or right at the edge of the Bravo shelf and the "training area" around the JOT VOR. If I'm just passing by, I take the penalty and stay 20 miles south of the Bravo.
 
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bflynn said:
Not to choose nits, but all flights? Nordo? Ultralight? Drones? Rockets?

A transponder is required? At least a radio?
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I would think that things like having a radio would be obvious enough since I don't know any controllers who yell quite loud enough for me to hear their advisories without one. But considering the definition of nit-picking... :D

Transponder? Maybe. I have received flight following without radar contact. I wasn't even a primary target.
 
You could use flight services with a cell phone instead of a radio.
 
Welcome to the POA. What kind of LSA do you have?

To your question. No, you can fly VFR in E airspace under C and B shelves all day long. But if you're flying X Country through that area, why would you? Ask for Flight Following either from your friendly airport on ground frequency before you taxi and see if they can arrange it, or if they can't when you're airborne simply call up approach/departure/whatever ATC you have in your area and ask. HIGHLY recommend it for any X Country.

BTW - If you go under the shelf of any B airspace, while not in the B airspace, you are in their Mode C Veil, and you need a Mode C transponder.

Mode C veil refers to a kind of airspace which currently surrounds all primary Class B airports within the United States. This airspace extends horizontally to a circle of 30 NM radius centered on the airport, and extends vertically from the surface up to 10,000 feet MSL.
 
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You can also pick up flight following from the center. This is handy on cross country trips when you depart from airports outside of approach control airspace.
 
WDD said:
BTW - If you go under the shelf of any B airspace, while not in the B airspace, you are in their Mode C Veil, and you need a Mode C transponder.
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Unless your aircraft doesn't have an "engine driven electrical system".
 
Just remember that Flight Following is voluntary, obviously for the pilot but sometimes the controller will be unable to provide the service and you should always have a back up plan knowing that's the case.
 
WDD said:
Welcome to the POA. What kind of LSA do you have?

To your question. No, you can fly VFR in E airspace under C and B shelves all day long. But if you're flying X Country through that area, why would you? Ask for Flight Following either from your friendly airport on ground frequency before you taxi and see if they can arrange it, or if they can't when you're airborne simply call up approach/departure/whatever ATC you have in your area and ask. HIGHLY recommend it for any X Country.

BTW - If you go under the shelf of any B airspace, while not in the B airspace, you are in their Mode C Veil, and you need a Mode C transponder.

Mode C veil refers to a kind of airspace which currently surrounds all primary Class B airports within the United States. This airspace extends horizontally to a circle of 30 NM radius centered on the airport, and extends vertically from the surface up to 10,000 feet MSL.
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I think you meant to reply to OP @L. A. Kramer
 
Dana said:
And many thousands of Cubs, Champs, T-Crafts, antiques, gliders, experimentals...
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I know. I wish there was a “friendly in a snarky way” emoji.
 
The other day I test flew a Bonanza for our shop. It had sat for 18 years. When the shop completed a very through annual I did a very through preflight & then took it up. I flew for 2.5 hours. The first 45 minutes were in gliding distance of our uncontrolled airport. I wanted to see if the old transponder worked so I called Spokane Approach & requested a transponder check. They could see the code they had given me but no Mode C return. I asked if I could stay on with them for traffic advisories since I forgot to bring my Sentry along & they said affirmative. When they asked my destination & told them I was on a test flight & planned just to fly around. Due to my lack of Mode C they did ask my altitude numerous times. You can use FF anytime based on ATC's workload.
 
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