Talk Me Out of a Cirrus

I was in a flight club with a sr20. The thing was always in the shop. The expensive cirrus certified shop. Literally almost sold it because they couldn’t make money on it being down all the time. I actually wanted a Lance but ended up buying my Bonanza. I would keep the Lance…my $0.02.
 
Oh btw, I'm about to drop $75k on a new engine for the Lance. That is why I'm thinking about this right now. Avoid that and buy something else or go ahead and bite the bullet and stay in the Lance much longer term.
 
Jim K said:
I don't THINK we restrict experimentals, but I could be wrong. The bigger issue for Neal is he REALLY wants FIKI, and I don't believe that is an option on the RV. If it is, I've certainly never seen one.
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I actually looked that one up as I know some allow it. On the lifeline faq page, "No, all planes must be certified by the FAA under a Standard Airworthiness Certificate."

I also have been thinking of MAYBE moving into a Seneca, but thats years down the road if ever. I have seen tks on some 'Togas and the 6x/6xt. The 6x would solve the gear mx expense
 
Racerx said:
I actually looked that one up as I know some allow it. On the lifeline faq page, "No, all planes must be certified by the FAA under a Standard Airworthiness Certificate."

I also have been thinking of MAYBE moving into a Seneca, but thats years down the road if ever. I have seen tks on some 'Togas and the 6x/6xt. The 6x would solve the gear mx expense
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Going to have to bring that up with the board... @NealRomeoGolf :biggrin:

I was thinking turbo fiki toga; that also checks most of the boxes. Useful won't be much more than the cirrus though.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Oh btw, I'm about to drop $75k on a new engine for the Lance. That is why I'm thinking about this right now. Avoid that and buy something else or go ahead and bite the bullet and stay in the Lance much longer term.
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Having a plane with a fresh engine is sweet. Especially when you control the process and pick the engine shop.

I would prefer that any day over a new-to-me mid-time engine with unknown operating history.

Some guys like the constant adventure of learning new types. Me, as I get older, I love the idea of having a plane I know like the back of my hand. Both from a maintenance standpoint and flight characteristics.

I vote Lance.
 
4RNB said:
Ac seems needed a few months, on the ground, and maybe for a few minutes into the flight. I question the marginal utility of this also.
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The relative value and importance of AC really depends on where you live. In the hot states, AC is more than just a marginal improvement for a few months, it's a dramatic improvement for comfort, which translates to wanting to fly more often. Flying is so much more enjoyable when you're not dripping with sweat before takeoff.

Saturday morning here in OK the OAT was 87 degrees at 6500. At 8500 I think it cooled off to 83. This was at about 9 AM. I sure would have liked AC.
 
I’d buy an RV10 before a Cirrus but you can’t get FIKI.

I agree the -22T fills a lot of squares but FIKI and turbo really do add to OpEx and the chute repack needs to be considered as well as the disposable nature of the airframe if the Continental decides to phone it in mid-flight.

For your use case, I’d guess a FIKI twin would be a better deal.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I've been dabbling in changing planes over the past 8 months. That's what happens after you drop tons of money into avionics. You waste it and go to another plane, right? Currently I fly a PA32R (Piper Lance) and I do so because of how much it carries. However, as I've switched companies and can now fly myself for work, I wish I could go faster and have some ice protection. My biggest limitations are hangar width and opex. I'd love to have an Aerostar but I'd be bankrupt in 5 years and don't have a hangar big enough to store it. I'd love to have a PA46 (Malibu....not Meridian) but the hangar issue comes into play again. They don't make them that wide here. I looked at Senecas but everything on the market is junk and I'm not convinced I want to be in a twin.

So now I'm looking at SR22T G5s. The problem is I don't want to give up the useful load. I could go without the T but flying up higher gives better speed. Those usually come with AC and that helps kill the useful. I'm seeing mostly 1100 pounds. My current plane gets 1430.

I get torn between my mission. 60%-70% of the time I don't need 1430. But sometimes I do need it for LifeLine Pilots flights and they specifically call me when they have a heavy one that is harder to fill. But on the flip side, I mostly fly solo. Having the AC would be nice too. As I get older, I hate sweating when flying more and more.

I've actually never flown in a Cirrus (well...not a piston. got to fly in the jet twice) so I need to do that. Really this post is just me rambling on. You're welcome to reason me one way or the other. Heck I was looking at a $900k TBM 700 the other day. I've hit full on midlife crisis really. :cool:
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25k parachute repack
 
Jim K said:
Going to have to bring that up with the board... @NealRomeoGolf :biggrin:

I was thinking turbo fiki toga; that also checks most of the boxes. Useful won't be much more than the cirrus though.
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Toga useful load will be an issue. have to look for a first gen Turbo Toga. I don't believe that FIKI is an option, but TKS inadvertent is. Expensive though if not already installed .
 
Going places, hard to beat a Cirrus in the unpressurized world, as long as it holds what you want to take. The numbers you posted above seem a little slow. A well tuned Cirrus at FL180 should be closer to 200 knots. At least 190's. Has a great community with a lot of support from the COPA community. They are a bit more expensive to maintain, and Cirrus seems to go through cycles where they have parts issues, and the factory seems more geared towards new buyers, but prob similar to most OEM's. It is an autopilot airplane, I really don't enjoy hand flying them, but you can, and they are OK. You fly them more by the numbers than by the feel, because with the spring cartridges when you get slow, the plane still feels like it is flying 100 knots, whereas most planes you can feel when you are getting slow in the controls. The Cirrus greatly hides that feel, which I think bites some people in the pattern. Overall, a FIKI Cirrus is a very capable, fast, comfortable plane. If your hangar only handles a 39 foot wing, the Cirrus is right there. Going to be hard to avoid hangar rash.
 
TCABM said:
I’d buy an RV10 before a Cirrus but you can’t get FIKI.

I agree the -22T fills a lot of squares but FIKI and turbo really do add to OpEx and the chute repack needs to be considered as well as the disposable nature of the airframe if the Continental decides to phone it in mid-flight.

For your use case, I’d guess a FIKI twin would be a better deal.
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The Senecas on the market are depressing and I don't want to go Baron. I just hate their panels. I am vain.
 
I can't imagine you being happy with anything else if the Lance is meeting your mission. For travel with more than 1 person, it's pretty hard to beat.
 
David Loftus said:
Amazing coincidence, possibly a perfect demonstration of the dangers of poor sidestick feedback on a Cirrus. The spring-loaded mechanism does not allow natural tactile feedback at slow speeds. Of course other factors could be involved, but the point remains. You have to land a Cirrus by the numbers, like an airliner, because you can't do it by feel

Cirrus accident in Texas today
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The “feel” of the sidestick on our SR22 never bothered me in the least. I don’t recall any students complaining about it either.

I already commented to the Facebook post that I think the speed and attitude on touchdown was near perfect. There was supposedly a significant crosswind, and that plus maybe a gust at the wrong time may have started things downhill. Also, the pilot’s door appears open, and that could have been a distraction - though it really shouldn’t be.
 
Racerx said:
Buy a race car....or better yet, get the company to sponsor one. I know a former semi-professional driver that can be coaxed out of retirement.
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I was going to buy a 911 but my dad said I can't because I already had an airplane. I mean, am I limited on purchases in any midlife crisis? Just spend it all!
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I was going to buy a 911 but my dad said I can't because I already had an airplane. I mean, am I limited on purchases in any midlife crisis? Just spend it all!
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Negative. **** it away. Unless you like your kids. Only live once.
 
Racerx said:
Buy a race car....or better yet, get the company to sponsor one. I know a former semi-professional driver that can be coaxed out of retirement.
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^^^^^ THIS ^^^^ I was told by my racing buddies, when the time came to move my son onto the pro circuit, to have him race on OPM (other people's money). I could only muster minimal sponsorship so his mother and I funded 95% of the operation. I could be retired with a Meridian in the hangar if I followed that advice. :mad2:
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I was going to buy a 911 but my dad said I can't because I already had an airplane. I mean, am I limited on purchases in any midlife crisis? Just spend it all!
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Are you making a choice between a Cirrus plus a Corolla and a Lance plus a 911? That would talk me out of the Cirrus pretty easily.

If we just need to talk you out of a Cirrus in a vacuum, then it's a bit harder. But go through the last few major trips you have flown and compare how you did them to how you would do them in a Cirrus, including both with and without turning on the oxygen. That will either talk you into one or out of it. So I have a 50/50 shot of winning this competition. I hope I'm right. I really want to win that car.
 
charheep said:
Why not a Corvette over the 911?
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I was going to say it's because the OP has class and style, but given that he needs help being talked out of a Cirrus I decided I can't be sure of that. So let's go with "boxer engine." :)
 
Do it, absolutely. The g5 is a sweet spot for the 22. I have over 500 hours in the 22. G5s and 6s rented from Goulian aviation. Many long cross countries. The stick works great, most who complain about seem to have just tried it, not lived with it. They fly great, they are one of best single crosswind machines I have flown. The perspective system is great, the Fiki works awesome as does the ac. For two people there is pretty much no limit within reason. With 4 people it is still a pretty good cross country machine.

I wouldn’t hesitate to get one, parts and maintenance can be an issue, need to plan ahead for the chute. But that’s true for most aircraft. The planes I flew had a great dispatch rate and were very reliable. But keep in mind I was a renter not an owner.

Do it, make sure you get a good prebuy, and do the cirrus transition with a csip. Don’t skimp on training.
 
I've got 4-5 hours in an SR-20 and the side stick was a non-issue. It was weird for the first 5 minutes then it became natural. You do have to land by the numbers

The SR22 cruises faster, but it's up to you to decide whether the time is significant. Plan out the trips and see if the travel times are worth it to you. I'm always surprised at how little difference an increase in speed makes. 600 nm trip, the Sr22 is only about 30 minutes faster.

You're trading a family mini-van for a newish BMW or Mercedes. I get the appeal. But you know and love the mini van.
 
Zeldman said:
Gimme the good ol'e boy Friday night fights at the dirt track anytime.!!

(not that I was ever involved, nope, not me...;))
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Asphalt for me. One guy had me by the fire suit cuz I made it 3 wide on the inside, turn 1 lap 1. 7th to 1st in one corner to lead every lap(was a track you had to run the high groove). Next race he had me by the collar and stated I must have balls of steel for that move. I thought it was a compliment. Nope, he was ticked off.
 
How about a Turbo 210? Maybe even pressurized. Useful load won't be a problem. Many are FIKI. And I think it cruises faster than a Lance? From a specs POV they look solid.

And you'd save yourself like half that 600k$ Cirrus budget! And not have to suffer the indignity of being fixed gear and only having one lever for the engine!

Disclaimer: never flown an SR22. They might be amazing. But prices are crazy.
 
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