Raptor Aircraft

Albany Tom said:
Is it just me, or is this whole thing a bit similar to the thread about the guy with the float plane that crashed it six times in a week? It's like watching a traffic accident in very slow motion…
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I had the same traffic accident thought earlier today.

Is everyone here familiar with Daniel Bernath, aka USSYORKTOWN?* This present situation reminds me of that - watching an apparently inevitable progression down a road that does not end well, obvious to almost everyone except the pilots themselves. I had the same helpless feeling in both cases that all I could do was watch and see how it all ended.

And in both cases, especially Bernath’s, wondering if I or others could have done more to prevent the outcome. It’s never easy. No one wants to be a rat fink. But at some point a line is crossed where perhaps inaction starts to border on complicity. I’m so glad that Muller has not to date met Bernath’s unfortunate end, but he very well might have in that cornfield.

I’m not blaming anyone for not taking action, but I would also not condemn anyone who did.


*If anyone is unfamiliar with the Bernath saga, I can provide a link to a long thread on a Sport Pilot forum that started with using an iPad as a landing aid and spiraled downhill from there.
 
MacFlier said:
Very good question!
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Minimum altitude for ballistic parachute deploy in a Cirrus is 400 feet. Raptor might never have calculated that or put it in his POH, assuming it was installed.
 
FastEddieB said:
I had the same traffic accident thought earlier today.

Is everyone here familiar with Daniel Bernath, aka USSYORKTOWN?*
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His presence in the RV world certainly had a unique arc. It started innocuously, then went sideways faster and faster.
 
Albany Tom said:
Is it just me, or is this whole thing a bit similar to the thread about the guy with the float plane that crashed it six times in a week? It's like watching a traffic accident in very slow motion. Or a Road Runner/Coyote episode in a serial installment version, less the "Acme" labels. Maybe I'm being too harsh, it's Monday.
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haaa .... I was reading all about him a while ago .... definitely a crazy cowboy renegade pilot (I am trying to be polite) ..... while reading his escapades I had a hard time deciding whether to laugh or be frightened .

In fairness , Peter M. does not suffer from a similar personality .... just thinks he is "smarter" than all the other aviation professionals , which has its own dangers.

.
 
FastEddieB said:
I had the same traffic accident thought earlier today.

Is everyone here familiar with Daniel Bernath, aka USSYORKTOWN?* This present situation reminds me of that - watching an apparently inevitable progression down a road that does not end well, obvious to almost everyone except the pilots themselves. I had the same helpless feeling in both cases that all I could do was watch and see how it all ended.

*If anyone is unfamiliar with the Bernath saga, I can provide a link to a long thread on a Sport Pilot forum that started with using an iPad as a landing aid and spiraled downhill from there.
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Never heard of the guy until now .... was able to find some of his forum posts and legal cases ... wow ....

I forget the original quip that says .... a person that represents himself in court has a fool for a lawyer ...

Bernath took it two steps further .... he was a lawyer representing himself in a lawsuit against a manufacturer because he ran out of fuel while encountering strong headwinds ... there are three foolish things in that statement

Some years later he eliminated himself in a subsequent crash which brings to mind another old quote ....

"justice has been served"

.
 
It was my impression you want not only horizontal force dissipation but also the same in the vertical which landing gear does provide. The pilot survived, the plane **maybe** is reusable, so arguments for or against are pretty much an academic discussion.

I was also under the impression he was flying with the gear "welded" down anyways due to unreliability issues. Was that fixed or is that incorrect? In any case I have never built an aircraft, nor have I ever landed on anything less than a 3k foot paved runway. People have suffered far worse while following their dreams.

RIP Raptor
Maybe?
 
A Martin said:
Never heard of the guy until now .... was able to find some of his forum posts and legal cases ... wow ....
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Here’s the thread that should be required reading when studying pilots and hazardous attitude:

http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2574

After being warned about his fixation on an iPad during the landing process and his disregard for well informed advice, he stated, “Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report.” After that he earned 2. He will not earn a third.

Muller and Bernath are very different in the details. And I suspect Bernath had more profound psychological issues going on. My bringing him up was more to express the way the progression to an apparently inevitable end made me feel. But both exhibited a certain hubris, not realizing their limitations. Which, in aviation, is never a good thing.

9437357014_17fcef4778.jpg
 
woodchucker said:
I was also under the impression he was flying with the gear "welded" down anyways due to unreliability issues. Was that fixed or is that incorrect?
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I never heard anything like that. He was flying gear up in the video about a month ago.
 
I had not seen any evidence that he wasn't bringing up the gear every flight, but he hadn't been doing videos for awhile, so who knows.
 
At the speeds he has been flying there is no real point in retracting the gear. Perhaps he left it down to minimize possible maintenance issues on the long trip.
 
He blamed the open gear wells for the pitch instability and closed them off at one point. He later went back to open gear wells and retracting the gear on each flight.
 
FastEddieB said:
Here’s the thread that should be required reading when studying pilots and hazardous attitude:

http://sportpilottalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2574

After being warned about his fixation on an iPad during the landing process and his disregard for well informed advice, he stated, “Fear not. I shall never be mentioned in a NTSB report.” After that he earned 2. He will not earn a third.

Muller and Bernath are very different in the details. And I suspect Bernath had more profound psychological issues going on. My bringing him up was more to express the way the progression to an apparently inevitable end made me feel. But both exhibited a certain hubris, not realizing their limitations. Which, in aviation, is never a good thing.

9437357014_17fcef4778.jpg
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Well that was an interesting rabbit hole, from ipad airspeed to stolen valor and a 2 plane crashes.

I appreciate that you tried early on to point out some behaviors to him he needed to change, but I don't think anyone could have prevented that predictable end.

As an aside, found his website using the wayback machine, that was an interesting read all on it's own.
 
New video today, discussing the crash and "Raptor NG" plans. He says that he is now in Boise with the aircraft (which went by truck). And the new plans make me think that we have come full circle on this thread:
Unit74 said:
Has my attention..... Too good to be true?
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Yep. What was the point of all that "flight testing"? None of it is relevant to the new beast they've imagined. Why did he try to fly it there? No reason that makes any sense. So what now? We wait another 5-10 years to see how this one turns out.
 
Starting from scratch may not be a bad idea. But rather than another salvage auto diesel, why not build a little turboprop for it? Something around 300-350 HP. It's going to take forever anyway, might as well put something cool in it.
 
You have to be kidding
 
Here's the new plane in all its glory:
upload_2021-8-10_20-52-20.png
  • Two electric 24" ducted fans driven by a generator in the spot the engine was in in the previous model
    • more thrust than the Audi, less weight
  • Boxed wing configuration, which will apparently:
    • Make the wings stiffer
    • Make the wings lighter
    • Make the plane more likely to fit in your hangar
  • Lower wing to make landing gear shorter, simpler, lighter
  • Plane will sit lower to the ground as there's no longer the need to worry about prop clearance
  • No pressurization this time around
  • Gross weight expected to be 4000lbs, empty weight expected to be low 2000s*

*I think we've heard that before
 
I'm trying to avoid using all the words that I'm not supposed to use when being kind. Or in public.

Is this a serious design, or is it just the design equivalent of a troll post, to bring in investors?
 
He claims the Raptor was heavy. With only one person in it? He claims he couldn't climb because it was too hot at 75 degrees. I suppose he'll have to test the new airplane with a teenage girl pilot in the arctic.
 
Bacho said:
Couldn’t make this up. Running a generator to spin electric motors is so efficient.
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Are you being sarcastic? Because it IS incredibly efficient. That's how nearly all trains and many oceanliners are powered.

It's not particularly light, but clearly PM doesn't care about weight.
 
Wow! “What a long strange trip it’s been”.

Anyway seems like a fitting end, far less tragic than it might have been.

And ver 2 seems like a pipe dream, but we’ll have to see, won’t we.

Finally, I was reminded of Monty Python.

“Who was the sorcerer that extricated yon flying machine from the corn?”

“Some call him………..Bob!”
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Are you being sarcastic? Because it IS incredibly efficient. That's how nearly all trains and many oceanliners are powered.

It's not particularly light, but clearly PM doesn't care about weight.
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I don't know if I would say the trains and ships use this because it's efficient. Trains use it because it's the only practical option. If you tried to power the train with a diesel engine, a gearbox would be required. And if a gearbox of that size would work, shifting gears on something that weighs in at 10,000 tons, would be... interesting.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Are you being sarcastic? Because it IS incredibly efficient. That's how nearly all trains and many oceanliners are powered.

It's not particularly light, but clearly PM doesn't care about weight.
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So there are zero losses when converting from mechanical/chemical energy to electrical, to convert back to mechanical? This is good to know. I'll retro fit all my vehicles to put an electric motor off the crank shaft to run the transmission or prop. Should work out better.
 
231TC said:
None of it is relevant to the new beast they've imagined
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I mean, not to be the only guy to throw him a bone but the VK-30 was nothing like the SR-20

What's baffling to me is the biggest issue with this plane seems to be the power train, yet for the new design he's proposing another novel power train design.

Anyway, while we balk, I'm sure it will keep us hooked for another 5 years watching the new creation take shape

If only I had this kind of balance of free time vs money that PM does.
 
Salty said:
Ver 1 seemed like a pipe dream.
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V2 seems more like a fever dream. I mean, it's a cool looking concept, yes. But the world is awash in "cool looking concepts" that simply do not, will not, cannot work.

In V1, it seems he vastly overestimated the power that would be available from the engine and drive he chose (not to mention its longevity, and the weight of that porker when he finally got it flying). In V2, I think he's making the same mistake, among numerous others -- vastly overestimating the thrust he can get from a couple of ducted fans with the power he'll be able to generate from a anything buried in the airframe. And the whole "We'll have a battery for backup power"... uh, right. Either we've now got an 8,000# airplane, or you have about three seconds of battery power.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this thing require a type rating, since it's now a multiengine jet? I suppose it's up for debate whether a ducted fan is a "turbofan" according to the FAA or not, since I don't think anyone has ever flown one, but I somehow suspect they'll say it is.

Not that it will matter for the next several years.
 
Apparently this guy has never seen an RC ducted fan fly…fast once airborne and up to speed, complete pig until that point. Weight is a huge concern even on the RC’s. Electrics are better now due to lipo batteries and better motor technology, but still…
 
Tantalum said:
I mean, not to be the only guy to throw him a bone but the VK-30 was nothing like the SR-20
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True, but he knew he was abandoning the original design quite a while ago and kept flying it to get to his mythical 40 hours, then tried to fly it to Boise. Could have saved himself a lot of trouble and just trucked it to Boise months or even a year ago and started on the new one already instead of risking his life for no purpose.
 
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