Little different building one from a kit and plans than someone making it up as they goYet underwriters sign up to cover E/ABs built in people’s garages by amateurs with zero experience every day?
Never say never.
Little different building one from a kit and plans than someone making it up as they goYet underwriters sign up to cover E/ABs built in people’s garages by amateurs with zero experience every day?
Never say never.
First, I did not say "never".
Second (and more importantly) there is a world of difference between the risk profile of insuring an E/AB aircraft with numerous aircraft flying and an E/R&D, one-off, untested aircraft with an auto engine.
Grab the wingtip, shake it real hard. If nothing falls off, "I'm OK with that."That’s a mess. Where do you begin to test the structural integrity of a one-off design after that? No knowledge base, engineering support, etc?
That’s a mess. Where do you begin to test the structural integrity of a one-off design after that? No knowledge base, engineering support, etc?
Obviously over built on structural strength, it did not even shed the wings. The landing attitude must have been level or nose up, so it was not really a crash, but a forced landing, under control. There may be many structural or cosmetic cracks, but the overall integrity is impressive. That is pretty mature corn, and the decelerating forces must have been high. As I said before, the swept wings helped in the corn, but at least on the starboard side, the elevator and horizontal stabilizer seems intact too.
The engineer who did the original structural design deserves a positive call out for this landing.
Interesting that in the final slide, the left side was leading, and thus the right side door was clear of corn, enabling the unobstructed opening of Peter's door for his exit. That door also seems to have reclosed with a reasonable fit. Pleasant surprises continue. From the tilt, the left main gear did collapse, but the right is still supporting the plane, and the nose gear may also be supporting, though it may not be re useable now.
I'm building a well known experimental plane. Because I have a county owned hangar I am required to have insurance on it even when building it.Yet underwriters sign up to cover E/ABs built in people’s garages by amateurs with zero experience every day?
Never say never.
You mean will his liability coverage pay for the property damage? Yes, after the deductible is met.Will insurance cover something like this?
I'm building a well known experimental plane. Because I have a county owned hangar I am required to have insurance on it even when building it.
Avemco has told me they will not insure an experimental for hull loss during the first 40 hours, so I will be exposed that whole time
You keep comparing this to an E/AB aircraft. It ain't.There are one off and plans built E/AB aircraft that are insured as well. Not everything comes in kit form.
I see little difference here.
Based on my experience with one-off EX/R&D airplanes with no prior art to base insurance on, it is possible to get insurance for pretty much anything, be it liability, hull (in motion), etc, as long as you're willing to pay for it. I can't say whether or not the name on the application matters, but I know insurance is possible, and the coverage may be granted without laying eyes on the airplane.This is an entire airframe and engine thought up and built by a guy with absolutely ZERO experience designing, building or flying said aircraft. If he has any in-motion coverage (at any premium), I will be truly amazed.
You keep comparing this to an E/AB aircraft. It ain't.
This is not an E/AB aircraft. It's E/R&D.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I obtained insurance through Avemco which included quotes for my current (yes completely unrelated) build condition, but also included a quote for when the plane is flying. They will not cover hull loss for phase 1, period.Trying to insure an airplane that does not exist because it hasn’t been constructed yet is a separate issue from what is being discussed. The city I rent a hangar from where I am building a kit plane plus restoring several others does not expect insurance on a bunch of parts but they do require a general liability policy to protect the building. It’s cheaper and offers better coverage than an aircraft policy would anyway.
Insurance during phase one would be more akin to where the Raptor would likely be. Insurance should be available although it may be at a price many people wouldn’t like. If this is a real business and/or the the people he was going to meet are real buyers or investors, I expect there was at least some kind of coverage.
The casino always wins.I know what it is. You were the one that suggested insurance was impossible to insure. I simply am suggesting it is not, and was providing something that has some similarities that is easy to insure.
Insurance is always a gamble. The higher the risk for the underwriters, the higher the premium price. When most say something is “uninsurable” they really mean it is too expensive to insure.
Even self insuring is a form of insurance.
Speaking of casino, wasn't there a bet on how many hours before it went down? Or was that claimed when the last engine crapped itself?The casino always wins.
The landing attitude must have been level or nose up, so it was not really a crash, but a forced landing, under control...
The engineer who did the original structural design deserves a positive call out for this landing...
Speaking of casino, wasn't there a bet on how many hours before it went down? Or was that claimed when the last engine crapped itself?
I bet @kyleb a round that the motor would make it 40 hours before failing. I lost that bet but have been unable to make good on it. My word is good, but timing is...difficult.I can't think of a single new design auto conversion where I'd feel safe taking that bet...but since I'm the one that called you on it I'll take it.
I bet @kyleb a round that the motor would make it 40 hours before failing. I lost that bet but have been unable to make good on it. My word is good, but timing is...difficult.
Nauga
I want in on those stories whenever that takes place!@nauga reached out to me prior to Oshkosh to try and make good on the payoff. Since he wasn't gonna be in attendance, we deferred until next year or some year afterwards. I'd wanted to hear some heroic test pilot stories over a Spotted cow: "Then we did another saw toothed climb profile, but I really had to pee, and..."
With mature corn, I'd imagine the rate of deceleration was quick enough that the gear didn't have much opportunity to dig in on anything with enough energy remaining to flip it over.Would it better to land in the corn with landing gear retracted? Seems with the gear extended there is more chance of the gear catching and ending up upside down, possibly preventing a quick egress. Am I wrong?
With mature corn, I'd imagine the rate of deceleration was quick enough that the gear didn't have much opportunity to dig in on anything with enough energy remaining to flip it over.
You're probably right. Kind of like ditching in water. In this case it obviously didn't flip, but probably would have sustained less damage with gear up.Would it better to land in the corn with landing gear retracted? Seems with the gear extended there is more chance of the gear catching and ending up upside down, possibly preventing a quick egress. Am I wrong?
Would it better to land in the corn with landing gear retracted? Seems with the gear extended there is more chance of the gear catching and ending up upside down, possibly preventing a quick egress. Am I wrong?
The fact that the gear sheared off is pretty good indication that he should have just geared-up. I understand he was cruising pretty low, probably not much time to debate the physics.