[N/A] Tesla turns a $312 mil profit in Q3

[GRG55]

That would be blatantly illegal...

LOL. So is tweeting "funding secured". But these days none of that matters, does it?

If it looks like an accounting fraud, swims like an accounting fraud and quacks like an accounting fraud, it's probably an accounting fraud.

I was in Houston, at the HQ of the energy company I worked for at the time, just two blocks from Enron HQ when the news flashed through downtown that Jeff Skilling had resigned, just six months after being promoted to CEO. Every one of us in our company that had never been able to figure out why no other company in the sector could come close to achieving the marvellous financial results ENE churned out quarter after quarter knew it was about to come apart. Those of us that were Enron's closest, but still distant, competitors never believed the "smartest guys in the room" BS.

In the fullness of time this duck is going to sink. Unless TLSA gets bailed out by the government just like GM and Ford.

Time now for a quick exit stage left to don the Kevlar.

 

[GRG55]

Something is worth what someone will give you for it. No more. No less. The fact that TSLA share price does not meet the same metrics as most other publicly traded stock is not really the issue. Buzz - aka goodwill - has a long history of bastardizing share prices, both up and down.

"Goodwill" is an accounting convenience. Stock price has nothing to do with it.
TLSAs market cap is just one of numerous examples of investor's inability to price risk correctly. In an extended era of NIRP/ZIRP "cost free capital" that's no surprise. To quote Herbert Stein "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop". I'll wager that applies to NIRP/ZIRP, and all that followed from it.

 

[3393RP]

Using non-GAAP methods to book revenue has been a staple for Tesla. For years they booked the full value of Model S leases when the lease was signed.

There have been other shady accounting methods in the past, too.

So excuse me if I take news of a quarterly profit at less than face value.

http://fortune.com/2016/11/30/sec-tesla-earnings-cooking-the-books-resale/

 

[Sundancer]

[QUOTE="flyingcheesehead, post: 2621388, member: 95
There's more to Tesla than just being electric, and that's what most people don't understand. There's a few extra bits that make Teslas compelling even if other manufacturers were to come out with an equivalent car at the same price:

1) The Supercharger network. Nobody else has even gotten a good start on an organized nationwide (worldwide, really) quick-charge network. There are plenty of fast charging stations in California, and a good number on the east coast, but most others are clustered in metro areas, making other companies' EVs worthless for road trips.
2) Over-the-air software updates. Other companies' cars will never be better than the day you got them, while Teslas continue to improve and gain new features.
3) No dealers! People freaking hate car dealers, and being able to just order and configure online is a much improved buying experience.
4) No taking the car in for service. Teslas are designed such that over 80% of maintenance tasks can be completed with the car on the ground in your garage (or in the parking lot where you work), and they're doubling down on the mobile service model.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'm not seeing it that way - the barrier to entry for stations would be pretty low for the bigs; and if Tesla's is propietary, they can be the Beta of charging stations. Not seeing a big barrier to on-line updates either, if the market place actaully cares about 'em. Unless it was a bug fix, I doubt I'd care much. No dealers is nice, but again, no lasting advantage to Tesla there, either. Maintenance at a dealer, or in your driveway, the market will sort out. But there isn't a real important diffrentiator in my mind - when I'm ready to buy, Tesla will be just another manufacturer to consider.

 

[Sam D]

Using non-GAAP methods to book revenue has been a staple for Tesla. For years they booked the full value of Model S leases when the lease was signed.

There have been other shady accounting methods in the past, too.

So excuse me if I take news of a quarterly profit at less than face value.

http://fortune.com/2016/11/30/sec-tesla-earnings-cooking-the-books-resale/

You’re right to question any company’s non-gaap earnings numbers. In this case, Tesla booked net income under gaap.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

[QUOTE="flyingcheesehead, post: 2621388, member: 95]
There's more to Tesla than just being electric, and that's what most people don't understand. There's a few extra bits that make Teslas compelling even if other manufacturers were to come out with an equivalent car at the same price:

1) The Supercharger network. Nobody else has even gotten a good start on an organized nationwide (worldwide, really) quick-charge network. There are plenty of fast charging stations in California, and a good number on the east coast, but most others are clustered in metro areas, making other companies' EVs worthless for road trips.
2) Over-the-air software updates. Other companies' cars will never be better than the day you got them, while Teslas continue to improve and gain new features.
3) No dealers! People freaking hate car dealers, and being able to just order and configure online is a much improved buying experience.
4) No taking the car in for service. Teslas are designed such that over 80% of maintenance tasks can be completed with the car on the ground in your garage (or in the parking lot where you work), and they're doubling down on the mobile service model.

I guess I'm not seeing it that way - the barrier to entry for stations would be pretty low for the bigs; and if Tesla's is propietary, they can be the Beta of charging stations. Not seeing a big barrier to on-line updates either, if the market place actaully cares about 'em. Unless it was a bug fix, I doubt I'd care much. No dealers is nice, but again, no lasting advantage to Tesla there, either. Maintenance at a dealer, or in your driveway, the market will sort out. But there isn't a real important diffrentiator in my mind - when I'm ready to buy, Tesla will be just another manufacturer to consider.[/QUOTE]

I'm not disputing that the other manufacturers *could* build a network of fast charging stations. The point is, they *haven't*. In fact, some have gone so far as to say they would not make any investments there. They're all waiting for someone else to do it, but nobody is.

WRT updates, I think it's a matter of the Big Three and their foreign counterparts using "big old company thinking". You know, "We've always done it this way, and it's worked just fine." That's true, until someone comes in and does something better, and then it's not, and history is littered with the wreckage of companies that didn't pay attention to new things being done by their competition. Sears is about to be the latest. Nokia didn't think Apple could build phones. And so on, and so forth... The ability for a car to actually get better over time is really compelling to me. @mjburian was absolutely gleeful telling me all the new things his car could do since he picked it up. And because of the Big Old Company Thinking, I don't expect the traditional manufacturers are going to catch on to this until it's almost too late. I would bet money that Chrysler in particular is going to be in a world of hurt in 10 years, but really none of them are very good at software.

"The market will sort it out" indeed. I expect some people, like yourself, will look at the car itself and go 50/50 towards/away from Tesla, but those who actually experience Tesla ownership are going to be giddy about it, and talk about it, and a bunch of their friends will give them a shot the next time around.

 

[mjburian]

I guess I'm not seeing it that way - the barrier to entry for stations would be pretty low for the bigs; and if Tesla's is propietary, they can be the Beta of charging stations. Not seeing a big barrier to on-line updates either, if the market place actaully cares about 'em. Unless it was a bug fix, I doubt I'd care much. No dealers is nice, but again, no lasting advantage to Tesla there, either. Maintenance at a dealer, or in your driveway, the market will sort out. But there isn't a real important diffrentiator in my mind - when I'm ready to buy, Tesla will be just another manufacturer to consider.

I'm not disputing that the other manufacturers *could* build a network of fast charging stations. The point is, they *haven't*. In fact, some have gone so far as to say they would not make any investments there. They're all waiting for someone else to do it, but nobody is.

WRT updates, I think it's a matter of the Big Three and their foreign counterparts using "big old company thinking". You know, "We've always done it this way, and it's worked just fine." That's true, until someone comes in and does something better, and then it's not, and history is littered with the wreckage of companies that didn't pay attention to new things being done by their competition. Sears is about to be the latest. Nokia didn't think Apple could build phones. And so on, and so forth... The ability for a car to actually get better over time is really compelling to me. @mjburian was absolutely gleeful telling me all the new things his car could do since he picked it up. And because of the Big Old Company Thinking, I don't expect the traditional manufacturers are going to catch on to this until it's almost too late. I would bet money that Chrysler in particular is going to be in a world of hurt in 10 years, but really none of them are very good at software.

"The market will sort it out" indeed. I expect some people, like yourself, will look at the car itself and go 50/50 towards/away from Tesla, but those who actually experience Tesla ownership are going to be giddy about it, and talk about it, and a bunch of their friends will give them a shot the next time around.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I don’t have long to respond but I just found out earlier today that (essentially) my “gas tank” is about to get bigger. Tesla has found a way to increase the regenerative braking via a software update that will recapture more energy from the process of slowing the car down. So now my car will be able to drive even further between “fill ups” than the day I bought it. Added cost to me for this (or any of the other additional things I’ve gotten via over the air updates in the last few months of ownership): $0.

It’s the only car I’m aware of that will continue to get better as it gets older. That’s the exact opposite of every car I’ve owned in the past 25 years.

 

[Ken Ibold]

"Goodwill" is an accounting convenience. Stock price has nothing to do with it.
TLSAs market cap is just one of numerous examples of investor's inability to price risk correctly.

You are contradicting yourself. If an investor prices the stock at something, that's what it's "worth." It may not reflect realistic analytics, but the price is an emotional reaction to the market -- good or bad. You see that in the psychology of auctions all the time, and the stock market is really just an auction.

Now, the intrinsic value of the company is another matter entirely.

 

[deonb]

It's still just a toy for the well to-do. It makes no financial sense to buy a Model 3 versus an equivalent Honda Civic/Accord.

By that reasoning though, why is the Honda Civic also not just a toy for the well to-do? It's 50% more expensive than a Nissan Versa after all.

 

[bflynn]

That would be blatantly illegal to book that as revenue. Even if you have the cash from the customer at hand - all of that cash is booked as a liability (not just the portion that cover COGS but all of it), and the car itself is inventory. It doesn’t become revenue until the customer signs and the car is delivered.

You don’t understand generally accepted accounting, do you?

You can claim revenue as soon as you have done all your work to earn it. Shipping off your dock means you are done and you are entitled to the money. Asset wise it goes to AR and you can book it right away. The customer does not have to have delivery if you have consigned it to a third party for delivery - you are done, you have completed all the work you need to do, you claim revenue. Actual cash has nothing to do with it.

Not only is it not illegal, but it is done every day by every company in the US and accepted by auditors as the way to do accounting.

Not that it matters because Tesla likes reporting non GAAP numbers. BTW, their official 3rd quarter earnings are not posted yet.

 

[tspear]

You don’t understand generally accepted accounting, do you?

You can claim revenue as soon as you have done all your work to earn it. Shipping off your dock means you are done and you are entitled to the money. Asset wise it goes to AR and you can book it right away. The customer does not have to have delivery if you have consigned it to a third party for delivery - you are done, you have completed all the work you need to do, you claim revenue. Actual cash has nothing to do with it.

Not only is it not illegal, but it is done every day by every company in the US and accepted by auditors as the way to do accounting.

Not that it matters because Tesla likes reporting non GAAP numbers. BTW, their official 3rd quarter earnings are not posted yet.

Not that simple, it depends on the customer agreement and the financial responsibility.
The more expensive the product, the longer the sales cycle, the more likely the customer agreements are complex enough that such a concept does not apply.
For example, Tesla still offers a buy back program. Under such provisions, you can recognize the revenue, but you also must recognize the liability for the buy back provisions.

Further complicating the issue is historically, a large number of Tesla cars financed through a lease purchase agreement underwriting by Wells Fargo (last I looked).
Wells is actually paying Tesla all the cash upfront. From a GAAP perspective, due to the buy back provisions on the lease to purchase agreement, the company should only recognize the revenue as the lease is paid. Instead for non-GAAP numbers Tesla has recognized the full payment.

GAAP is not perfect by any means, but does allow a lot more transparency in the numbers than many people realize.

Tim

 

[Velocity173]

There already is a fast charger (DCFC) network and OTA updates exist for other manufacturers as well. Not the extent that Tesla has invested but they do exist and are growing by the day. Neither one would be a determining factor in buying Tesla for to me though. I don’t have 30 minutes to spend charging on a XC and I don’t care about OTA updates that I can get at the dealer down the road from me during a simple tire rotation.

If I were to go Tesla, it’s because it’s a sexy car. It looks and performs the part. When I look at a Bolt, Leaf or even a Gen 2 Volt, they look like a typical mass produced electric cars. Tesla, despite the hideous Model 3 cockpit and Jar Jar Binks nose, has a certain level of class associated with it. Kinda like airplanes, I go with performance and looks. That’s what matters.

 

[deonb]

You can claim revenue as soon as you have done all your work to earn it. Shipping off your dock means you are done and you are entitled to the money. Asset wise it goes to AR and you can book it right away. The customer does not have to have delivery if you have consigned it to a third party for delivery - you are done, you have completed all the work you need to do, you claim revenue. Actual cash has nothing to do with it.

Tesla does not consign it to a third party - they keep possession of the vehicle, and they certainly are not entitled to any money until the day you actually buy and sign for your car. There's no obligation to buy anything - if you order a car and don't like it when you see it, you don't buy it and it goes to the next person on the list who want the same model. Happens every day.

Also, this entire argument is moot anyway, since they actually delivered 3500 more vehicles than they produced this quarter (side effect of the fast rampup - a lot of vehicles were in transit at the end of last quarter).

There was a HUGE push at the end of the quarter to deliver as many cars as possible. Not produce/ship, but deliver. Elon even accepted an offer from existing owners to go help in stores with deliveries:
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23779/tesla-accepts-volunteers-as-model-3-deliveries-ramp-up

Not sure how many people volunteered nationwide, but the store closest to where I live had 45 volunteers to help deliver vehicles. So there must have been at least hundreds, if not thousands of volunteers nationwide during the last weekend of the quarter.

It's not an accounting trick - the cars are actually driving around on the streets. You can't drive around here anymore without seeing dozens of Teslas every day.

Now should they be able to do it without volunteers? Absolutely, but I'll give them a pass this time for that since they had more than double the amount of cars to deliver this quarter than they did the previous one.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

There already is a fast charger (DCFC) network

Not a strategically planned one. Let me show you what the difference is. Here is the CONUS portion of the current Tesla Supercharger network:



Now, here are all of the CONUS SAE-CCS chargers, which is the fast charging standard used by my BMW i3 and the Chevy Bolt, the nearest thing to competition Tesla has right now:



One of these is usable, today, for at-will cross country travel (with the exception of North Dakota, obviously). One is clearly not. And those CCS chargers are not a single planned network, they are from 14 different networks, plus all of the independently owned chargers. Until someone decides to invest in a full network that is evenly spaced, Tesla will continue to have a major competitive advantage.

There was a HUGE push at the end of the quarter to deliver as many cars as possible. Not produce/ship, but deliver. Elon even accepted an offer from existing owners to go help in stores with deliveries:
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23779/tesla-accepts-volunteers-as-model-3-deliveries-ramp-up

Not sure how many people volunteered nationwide, but the store closest to where I live had 45 volunteers to help deliver vehicles. So there must have been at least hundreds, if not thousands of volunteers nationwide during the last weekend of the quarter.

And that right there tells you how compelling Tesla ownership is. How many products do you own that you love SO much that you'd be willing to volunteer your time to help the manufacturer sell more of them to make more people as happy as you are?

Like Elon said: "A Tesla is not really a car, it's actually a thing to maximize enjoyment."

 

[SoonerAviator]

Sorry, but the Tesla or any other electric vehicle will likely never replace my ICE for a long cross country trip. I don't care how many charging stations they stick next to the interstate, I'm not driving to a station to sit for an hour or longer while my vehicle charges. If I want to drive to Denver from Tulsa, it's a 10hr drive. I don't stop except for grabbing some food and fuel. I don't need to turn a 10hr trip into a 13+ hours due to recharging. Some may feel differently about that. For everyday driving around town back and forth from work, sure, the EVs will be great. I'd imagine the average American household will end up with one ICE and one EV at some point in the next 20 years or so.

Again, the Tesla charging network is probably usable if you live on the coasts, or right off the interstate in a major mid-western city. In Tulsa, there is only one Supercharger in Tulsa and it's about 15 miles from most of the areas in Tulsa you'd want to be. Their network means jack squat to most of middle America unless you just happen to reside with 5 miles of a station.

 

[tspear]

Not a strategically planned one. Let me show you what the difference is. Here is the CONUS portion of the current Tesla Supercharger network:

View attachment 68447

Now, here are all of the CONUS SAE-CCS chargers, which is the fast charging standard used by my BMW i3 and the Chevy Bolt, the nearest thing to competition Tesla has right now:

View attachment 68448

One of these is usable, today, for at-will cross country travel (with the exception of North Dakota, obviously). One is clearly not. And those CCS chargers are not a single planned network, they are from 14 different networks, plus all of the independently owned chargers. Until someone decides to invest in a full network that is evenly spaced, Tesla will continue to have a major competitive advantage.

We are pilots, why do we care about driving a car across the country?

Sorry, but the Tesla or any other electric vehicle will likely never replace my ICE for a long cross country trip. I don't care how many charging stations they stick next to the interstate, I'm not driving to a station to sit for an hour or longer while my vehicle charges. If I want to drive to Denver from Tulsa, it's a 12hr drive. I don't stop except for grabbing some food and fuel. I don't need to turn a 10hr trip into a 13+ hours due to recharging. Some may feel differently about that. For everyday driving around town back and forth from work, sure, the EVs will be great. I'd imagine the average American household will end up with one ICE and one EV at some point in the next 20 years or so.

Again, the Tesla charging network is probably usable if you live on the coasts, or right off the interstate in a major mid-western city. In Tulsa, there is only one Supercharger in Tulsa and it's about 15 miles from most of the areas in Tulsa you'd want to be. Their network means jack squat to most of middle America unless you just happen to reside with 5 miles of a station.

If I do a road trip I agree. If I do a road trip with my wife, that means it will be the 13 hour version...

Tim

 

[deonb]

Sorry, but the Tesla or any other electric vehicle will likely never replace my ICE for a long cross country trip. I don't care how many charging stations they stick next to the interstate, I'm not driving to a station to sit for an hour or longer while my vehicle charges. If I want to drive to Denver from Tulsa, it's a 10hr drive. I don't stop except for grabbing some food and fuel. I don't need to turn a 10hr trip into a 13+ hours due to recharging.

It would turn it into 11.5 hours, not 13 hr+. (45 mins each at Colby & Salina)

And with your existing fuel and food stops you're probably at 10.5h to start off with. So it really just adds an hour. But it costs $20 instead of $60 each way.

Is getting there an hour earlier worth spending $40 more?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

It would turn it into 11.5 hours, not 13 hr+. (45 mins each at Colby & Salina)

And with your existing fuel and food stops you're probably at 10.5h to start off with. So it really just adds an hour. But it costs $20 instead of $60 each way.

Is getting there an hour earlier worth spending $40 more?

Yes

 

[SoonerAviator]

It would turn it into 11.5 hours, not 13 hr+. (45 mins each at Colby & Salina)

And with your existing fuel and food stops you're probably at 10.5h to start off with. So it really just adds an hour. But it costs $20 instead of $60 each way.

Is getting there an hour earlier worth spending $40 more?

You can’t fully charge a 300 mile range Tesla in a half hour. Even they claim something like 170 mile charge in 30 minutes, which means you’re spending an hour for a full charge, twice. Then once more for 30 minutes just to make it to the destination, much less go anywhere once you’re there. So I’m spending $40 more to save two hours, which is absolutely worth it to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deonb]

You can’t fully charge a 300 mile range Tesla in a half hour. Even they claim something like 170 mile charge in 30 minutes, which means you’re spending an hour for a full charge, twice. Then once more for 30 minutes just to make it to the destination, much less go anywhere once you’re there. So I’m spending $40 more to save two hours, which is absolutely worth it to me.

You wouldn’t fully charge it. Colby and Salina are 200 miles apart and then there is 260 more miles to Tulsa.

In general you don’t ever fully charge an EV on the road. It’s MUCH faster charging the first half of a Lithium battery than the second half. So half hour for a half charge doesn't actually Imply 1 hour for a full charge. The graph goes like 50% in 22 mins, 80% in 40 minutes and 100% in 80 minutes.

With that in mind you can pull away Denver fully charged, arrive at Colby with 100 miles remaining, charging 30 mins there will put you at about 240 range. Then drive to Salina and arrive with 40 miles. Charge an hour and you’re at 280 and can easily reach Tulsa. So 90 minute total charge.

Charge overnight wherever you’re staying in Tulsa and you’re back to full the next day.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

You wouldn’t fully charge it. Colby and Salina are 200 miles apart and then there is 260 more miles to Tulsa.

In general you don’t ever fully charge an EV on the road. It’s MUCH faster charging the first half of a Lithium battery than the second half. So half hour for a half charge doesn't actually Imply 1 hour for a full charge. The graph goes like 50% in 22 mins, 80% in 40 minutes and 100% in 80 minutes.

With that in mind you can pull away Denver fully charged, arrive at Colby with 100 miles remaining, charging 30 mins there will put you at about 240 range. Then drive to Salina and arrive with 40 miles. Charge an hour and you’re at 280 and can easily reach Tulsa. So 90 minute total charge.

Charge overnight wherever you’re staying in Tulsa and you’re back to full the next day.

My time is still more valuable than all that ****ery. One day I’m sure I’ll own EV just not now. The tech still doesn’t meet my needs.

 

[deonb]

My time is still more valuable than all that ****ery. One day I’m sure I’ll own EV just not now. The tech still doesn’t meet my needs.

Mine too. That’s why I far rather spend 4 hours per year charging on road trips while eating, than 8 hours per year going to gas stations every week.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Mine too. That’s why I far rather spend 4 hours per year charging on road trips while eating, than 8 hours per year going to gas stations every week.

I’m happy it works for you. Do you think I’m wrong about my personal time management choices? I may be misunderstanding your position but it seems you don’t think I’m correct in evaluating how EV use would integrate into my driving needs.

 

[Velocity173]

Until they have super chargers at every restaurant that I might stop at on a XC, no way an all EV would meet my needs. That’s even if the charger isn’t taken. I’m reading in Cali, plenty of people rolling up and all the stations are taken.

An hour or even 30 minutes isn’t something I want to deal with on a XC. EVs are good work commuter cars but they don’t meet my long distance needs.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Until they have super chargers at every restaurant that I might stop at on a XC, no way an all EV would meet my needs. That’s even if the charger isn’t taken. I’m reading in Cali, plenty of people rolling up and all the stations are taken.

An hour or even 30 minutes isn’t something I want to deal with on a XC. EVs are good work commuter cars but they don’t meet my long distance needs.

Exactly my point. Some people may be okay planning their XC trip stops around what range will be left in the battery pack and how long it will have to charge to meet the next recharge station. With an ICE vehicle, my stops are brief and can be decided on the fly in almost every area of the country. EVs just don’t suit me for XCs, towing, or extended performance driving. They are great for the daily commute or local 150-mile round trip.

They have a niche that they can fit, but they aren’t as versatile as ICE. While not being as versatile, they carry a fairly significant purchase price penalty which, at current fuel price levels, takes a decade for most people to offset (if not longer). Once the price premium on EVs similar to a Model 3 come down closer to the price of a Civic, you’ll see people buying them in droves. Pricing them like a Audi A4 limits the portion of the population even willing to consider one. Tesla (and other manufacturers) will get there in pricing eventually, but for now it’s not a feasible replacement proposition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Sorry, but the Tesla or any other electric vehicle will likely never replace my ICE for a long cross country trip. I don't care how many charging stations they stick next to the interstate, I'm not driving to a station to sit for an hour or longer while my vehicle charges.

Good news, you won't have to. Most people charge for a half hour. It doesn't make any sense to wait for a full charge when on a road trip, as (like any battery) the last 20% takes as much time as the first 80%.

Again, the Tesla charging network is probably usable if you live on the coasts, or right off the interstate in a major mid-western city. In Tulsa, there is only one Supercharger in Tulsa and it's about 15 miles from most of the areas in Tulsa you'd want to be. Their network means jack squat to most of middle America unless you just happen to reside with 5 miles of a station.

You're thinking about this from the perspective of an ICE vehicle owner. Charging stations near you don't matter one whit, you'll never use them. You'll leave your house with a full "tank" every day.

Exactly my point. Some people may be okay planning their XC trip stops around what range will be left in the battery pack and how long it will have to charge to meet the next recharge station.

You don't have to, the car will do it for you. Just tell it where you want to go, it'll tell you which charging stations to stop at, and it'll tell you when you've got enough juice to make the next one.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Good news, you won't have to. Most people charge for a half hour. It doesn't make any sense to wait for a full charge when on a road trip, as (like any battery) the last 20% takes as much time as the first 80%.

This was about long XC trips, not local drives in which you wouldn’t exhaust the battery range before you got home. If I need a quick charge with a Tesla because I forgot to plug my car in the night before, I’d have to drive across town 15 miles to get to a supercharger station, or wait forever to let a 110V get me enough range to get home/wherever I need to be next.

You're thinking about this from the perspective of an ICE vehicle owner. Charging stations near you don't matter one whit, you'll never use them. You'll leave your house with a full "tank" every day.

Agreed. As I said, this was about using them on an XC outside the full charge range. I noted several times they are great for local commuting.

You don't have to, the car will do it for you. Just tell it where you want to go, it'll tell you which charging stations to stop at, and it'll tell you when you've got enough juice to make the next one.

Now I’m letting the car force me into where I have to stop? No thanks. If I decide I need to pee and I’d like to fuel up at the next fuel station, there’s probably one in the next 10-15 miles. If I decide that in a Tesla it may not have one for another 40 miles. So now I’m stopping twice. Face it, it’s not a great XC vehicle. Can it be done? Absolutely. Would I want to deal with its shortcomings for XC trips? Not a chance.



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[patrick wentworth]

So having gone on 2-3 long road trips (driving to join AirForce) and never again in 60 years (they have airplanes now and lyft/uber and even rentals) I am enjoying "filling up" in the garage and not being ask to come in please for an oil change on my honda. Tesla Model 3 is a quick comfortable car that we get enjoyment in the new things it will do every few days/weeks. Yes I am one of those rich folk (not) in my 49 year old airplane with steam gages and the same house for 5 decades and the shift to electric is working with the 300 mile range and quicker than the Vette I traded in.

 

[James331]

Who doesn’t want a glorified $100,000.00 electric snobby golf cart lol

Unless they actually come out with a “car” with good range and for under 35k, they will just be a artificially propped up boutique niche product.

 

[bflynn]

An electric car is not an XC vehicle at all, network or no network. But how often do you drive that much.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

This was about long XC trips, not local drives in which you wouldn’t exhaust the battery range before you got home. If I need a quick charge with a Tesla because I forgot to plug my car in the night before, I’d have to drive across town 15 miles to get to a supercharger station, or wait forever to let a 110V get me enough range to get home/wherever I need to be next.

You would have to forget to plug it in for like two weeks in a row before you needed to go to a Supercharger... And there are probably other chargers much closer to you that would be better in that case anyway. Here's a map of the places a Tesla could charge in the Tulsa area today:

Agreed. As I said, this was about using them on an XC outside the full charge range. I noted several times they are great for local commuting.

Why did you care that it was "15 miles from anywhere you'd want to be" and that you needed to "reside within 5 miles" of one then? I'm confused.

 

[wsuffa]

And I noted today that Tesla had dropped a LOT in the Consumer's Report auto reliability ratings. Likewise GM and Ford. Tesla is one of the bottom three, tied with Caddy and only better than Volvo.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...y-tumbles-consumer-reports-survey/1748024002/

 

[Lachlan]

Good news, you won't have to. Most people charge for a half hour. It doesn't make any sense to wait for a full charge when on a road trip, as (like any battery) the last 20% takes as much time as the first 80%.



You're thinking about this from the perspective of an ICE vehicle owner. Charging stations near you don't matter one whit, you'll never use them. You'll leave your house with a full "tank" every day.



You don't have to, the car will do it for you. Just tell it where you want to go, it'll tell you which charging stations to stop at, and it'll tell you when you've got enough juice to make the next one.

What a great way to travel. I think next time I have to drive further than a single tank of gas will get me, I’m going to only gas up just enough to get me to the next gas station each time. Ohhh, what fun I’ll have!

 

[X3 Skier]

It seems to me Tesla fits perfectly along with many other things in the great Right And Left Coast vs Flyover Country dichotomy.

Cheers

 

[kyleb]

An electric car is not an XC vehicle at all, network or no network. But how often do you drive that much.

Exactly. $46K+ seems like a lot of money for a niche vehicle. Maybe a nice niche vehicle, but not one that seems to be a better value than my $22k Accord. I/we take multiple >250 mile trips a year, and the current electric offerings just don't compete well on those trips.

 

[Dav8or]

They made $50m from ZEV credits - would have been profitable even without that.


No other car manufacturer is building a coast to coast charging network. Unless they start doing that soon, come 2 to 3 years from now they'll still have cars that nobody wants.

Whoa there fan boy! I wouldn't say nobody. I bought a Chevy Bolt and I would again without hesitation. I know this all might sound like insanity to you, but Tesla has yet to build a vehicle I can actually afford, or stomach the price. In addition, the Model 3 is a sedan and I have zero use for a sedan and I hate that lame iPad drive it has. I really don't care at all about the Supercharger Network, or any public charging facility. I never use them and I don't plan to. Come 2 to 3 years from now, maybe Tesla will actually have a car I do want. I'm not planning on buying a replacement for the Bolt until 2027, so we'll see what's happening then. If Tesla still fails to deliver a car I can afford and I can use, then I'll buy another car that "nobody wants".

 

[Dav8or]

It seems to me Tesla fits perfectly along with many other things in the great Right And Left Coast vs Flyover Country dichotomy.

Cheers

It kind of does, but it shouldn't. Electric cars really are cool and even the folks in the fly over states would love them if they gave them a chance.

 

[Dav8or]

@flyingcheesehead and @deonb, give it up. You're trying to sell electric cars to Blackberry folks. Hell some of them are flip phone guys. Just try to remember these earlier Tesla threads and then in 5-10 years from now, read about all these guys posting about the awesome new electric car they just bought and how smart they are for buying it. Like it or not, electric cars are taking over and faster than many think they will.

 

[bflynn]

Electric cars have some issues to solve still, including some issues that we haven't even thought of yet. From a fuel standpoint they probably aren't a good bargain because they carry such a premium up front. Personally, I got it because of the brown smudge.

 

[tspear]

Electric cars have some issues to solve still, including some issues that we haven't even thought of yet. From a fuel standpoint they probably aren't a good bargain because they carry such a premium up front. Personally, I got it because of the brown smudge.

Curious, what issues?
Brown smudge?

Tim