Hard Landing in NM

Wow that came real close to being a lot worse.
 
Something didn’t look right from the beginning.
 
Second title.... "How the pilot builds confidence with the med crew"...


I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Fixed wing guys land down wind.... this was just a simple down hill landing....
 
Zeldman said:
Second title.... "How the pilot builds confidence with the med crew"...


I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Fixed wing guys land down wind.... this was just a simple down hill landing....
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I would’ve laughed if the medcrew got out like nothing happened. “Ok, where’s the patient at?”
 
It's hard to tell in the vertical video (why can't people hold it so it looks like a TV?), but didn't the rotors hit the hillside at the end of the slide? Sure did raise a sudden burst of dirt if it didnt.
 
I don’t know where that is?? Could be higher elevation with combo of high DA that it just dropped out of the sky. Seemed to drop a bunch altitude on that first turn. It did look like the main rotor did touch the ground there.
 
rotor guys care to comment on the descent rate? Looked like it had trouble arresting the VV all through the turn. Sloppy technique, or mechanical/environmentals?
 
With a little googling and hasty estimating it seems he may have not had hover in ground effect (HIGE) capability, due to DA. HOGE no doubt out of the question. One must be careful with such things. :eek:
 
hindsight2020 said:
rotor guys care to comment on the descent rate? Looked like it had trouble arresting the VV all through the turn. Sloppy technique, or mechanical/environmentals?
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Well, VRS or SWP. Take your pick. If vortex ring state (VRS), you’re looking at a RoD that exceeds the aircraft’s ability to arrest the descent (>300 FPM). If we’re looking at settling with power (SWP), in the European / Canadian teaching, it’s a situation where the power available isn’t capable of sustaining flight for the weight & DA given.

Personally, I’d say a classic case of SWP or what we Americans call “settling with too little power.” Basically what occurred on Mt Hood HH-60 in 2002. If you notice they had a slight left yaw (clockwise Astar) because most likely the rotor had drooped from the high TRQ required and the engine’s inability to overcome the TRQ. That droop in tail rotor RPM with the high main rotor TRQ, is pulling the aircraft left. Also, it gets airborne immediately after impact, indicating a high collective setting. Blades appear to be coning at a large angle as well.

Probably sounded like this (1+00) in the aircraft...minus the yelling.

 
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Zeldman said:
I have had 100% cloud cover and light rain all day.
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I landed at Gallup a few hours ago. The visibility was so-so, but the actual overcast was quite high. The real problem was in the edge of the rain where clouds touched the ground.
 
So does anyone know what the aftermath was? Grounded pending inspection, teardown? Or was there no strike?

I presume they did not fly a passenger out?
 
Looked like half the tail rotor was gone when it finally throttled down. I'm confident the ship is leaving the area on a truck, not in the air.
 
Generally on a truck and they conceal the N number. ;)
 
if I was the patient, I'd be like you tell that g-dm'd flight nurse to get away from me! Now push-start me down the mountain on this gurney and gimme a pair of paddles and I'll aerobrake my @ss to the hospital.....lol
 
Zeldman said:
Second title.... "How the pilot builds confidence with the med crew"...


I don't know what everyone is complaining about. Fixed wing guys land down wind.... this was just a simple down hill landing....
Click to expand...

Three to go, one to say no
 
zaitcev said:
I landed at Gallup a few hours ago. The visibility was so-so, but the actual overcast was quite high. The real problem was in the edge of the rain where clouds touched the ground.
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It was a high ceiling, but it is a rare day here to have a slow rain last most of the day. My weeds are really growing like...well... weeds.
 
I thought it was over when he started sliding down the hill. He was lucky he didn't catch the skid on the guard rail when he went over the edge.
 
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Hank S said:
It's hard to tell in the vertical video (why can't people hold it so it looks like a TV?), but didn't the rotors hit the hillside at the end of the slide? Sure did raise a sudden burst of dirt if it didnt.
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pretty amazing going down that hill without a major rotor event
 
Sierra Victor said:
Yup

Looked bad when he crossed over and turned inbound.
Something wasn’t right.
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I think the technical term is settling in one's own incompetence.
"Officials said the pilot took evasive action to avoid hitting a cable, resulting in the hard landing." That's something I cannot quite observe.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
"Officials said the pilot took evasive action to avoid hitting a cable, resulting in the hard landing." That's something I cannot quite observe.
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Maybe they are talking about those wires you see about 10 seconds in to the video. It's hard to tell where they run exactly, but maybe they were in the way of an upwind landing.

I wouldn't call this VRS. The ROD was way too low for that, and it appears he is able to kind of check the ROD a little. I'm pretty sure this is just plain ol' running out of power at 10,000 DA+. A shallower, upwind, controlled approach could have been successful. This approach to landing was the opposite of controlled and stabilized.
 
Direct C51 said:
Maybe they are talking about those wires you see about 10 seconds in to the video. It's hard to tell where they run exactly, but maybe they were in the way of an upwind landing.

I wouldn't call this VRS. The ROD was way too low for that, and it appears he is able to kind of check the ROD a little. I'm pretty sure this is just plain ol' running out of power at 10,000 DA+. A shallower, upwind, controlled approach could have been successful. This approach to landing was the opposite of controlled and stabilized.
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Yep. Up until he "landed" I wouldn't have guessed he was landing, at least no intentionally.
 
I saw those wires and immediately thought they were a part of the accident sequence.

Are ground personnel typically in contact with HEMS crews via radio? It would be a good to be able to discuss any LZ obstructions.
 
“Lemme tell ya about the time I slid her down a hill”
 
Power required > power available. Nothing new there.

What you must admire is the pilot's showmanship and flair in sliding down that hill without shedding blades.
 
Piperonca said:
Power required > power available. Nothing new there.

What you must admire is the pilot's showmanship and flair in sliding down that hill without shedding blades.
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biggest face save since Asiana....too soon? :D
 
3393RP said:
I saw those wires and immediately thought they were a part of the accident sequence.

Are ground personnel typically in contact with HEMS crews via radio? It would be a good to be able to discuss any LZ obstructions.
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Yes, there’s an LZ Command that either the pilot or most likely, the medcrew is talking to. Example, “Life Flight 01, winds are out of the east. The LZ is an open field north of the building. Wires along the west side with red emergency vehicles parked under them. You’ll be landing near the white ambulance.” The video doesn’t show it but they should’ve been doing a high recon (circle) looking for obstructions to confirm what LZ command is telling them.

I don’t see anything that indicates a maneuver to avoid wires. Looks like a sloppy pedal turn to final and then an approach that was a little too steep and slow for the conditions. Getting into IGE helped but not enough to arrest the descent. 9,800 ft is no joke. Be willing to bet they had 12,000-13,000 ft DA. Astar is a good performer at altitude but there are also many versions of it. In this case, heavy aircraft, high DA, calm winds or possibly a slight tail wind. All it would have taken was maybe 5 more kts of speed and a slightly shallower approach and it might have turned out fine.

Unfortunately, it’s a job where every scene site someone is filming it. We’re one mental error away from being a YT video.
 
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