Hard Landing in NM

[benyflyguy]

Yes, there’s an LZ Command that either the pilot or most likely, the medcrew is talking to. Example, “Life Flight 01, winds are out of the east. The LZ is an open field north of the building. Wires along the west side with red emergency vehicles parked under them. You’ll be landing near the white ambulance.” The video doesn’t show it but they should’ve been doing a high recon (circle) looking for obstructions to confirm what LZ command is telling them.

I don’t see anything that indicates a maneuver to avoid wires. Looks like a sloppy pedal turn to final and then an approach that was a little too steep and slow for the conditions. Getting into IGE helped but not enough to arrest the descent. 9,800 ft is no joke. Be willing to bet they had 12,000-13,000 ft DA. Astar is a good performer at altitude but there are also many versions of it. In this case, heavy aircraft, high DA, calm winds or possibly a slight tail wind. All it would have taken was maybe 5 more kts of speed and a slightly shallower approach and it might have turned out fine.

Unfortunately, it’s a job where every scene site someone is filming it. We’re one mental error away from being a YT video.

It also looked like a shallower faster approach may not have been feasible at that place. Seemed like they were in a little notched opening with tall trees and mts

 

[Gerhardt]

We’re one mental error away from being a YT video.

I'm glad to see someone here saying that. Bad things happen with even the best of pilots. I recall being at the Robinson safety course many years ago when Tim Tucker, their chief pilot, was saying he never understood how any pilot, ever, could have a wire strike. Until he did...with a wire he knew was there.

It's easy to second guess any pilot after there's a problem. But DA would be a factor and coupled with a tailwind approach. Watch the direction the dust blows...he was landing with the wind, not into it. Imagine his shock when the collective is up to his armpit and nothing's left and he's still descending. You'd expect to see a little more flare in that case.

It's an interesting video, to be sure. But I'm not going to throw stones at the pilot.

 

[Velocity173]

It also looked like a shallower faster approach may not have been feasible at that place. Seemed like they were in a little notched opening with tall trees and mts

Satellite image shows plenty of room up there. Not sure why they didn’t go with the wide open parking lot over the dirt field / road north of the ski lodge.

Shallow approach, hold at least 20 kts (ETL) until IGE and you got it licked. Getting out, pick up to 3 ft, accelerate through ETL and then climb out at max continuous pwr.

 

[Velocity173]

I'm glad to see someone here saying that. Bad things happen with even the best of pilots. I recall being at the Robinson safety course many years ago when Tim Tucker, their chief pilot, was saying he never understood how any pilot, ever, could have a wire strike. Until he did...with a wire he knew was there.

It's easy to second guess any pilot after there's a problem. But DA would be a factor and coupled with a tailwind approach. Watch the direction the dust blows...he was landing with the wind, not into it. Imagine his shock when the collective is up to his armpit and nothing's left and he's still descending. You'd expect to see a little more flare in that case.

It's an interesting video, to be sure. But I'm not going to throw stones at the pilot.

Yeah, it happens. I don’t think there’s a helo pilot around that hasn’t come close to balling it up because the conditions caught them by surprise. If they haven’t, then they haven’t flown in challenging conditions where you’re demanding max performance from the aircraft.

A lot of times pilots get used to flying a set profile and the aircraft always gives them the power they demand. We had a Black Hawk that had a hard landing at 12,000 ft in Astan. No performance planning done for that altitude and I’d be willing to bet, an over confident crew. You get used to landing at 8,000-9,000 ft there, then all of a sudden you’re tasked to go to 12,000 ft. What’s a few thousand feet? Sometimes a couple thousand feet, a few degrees, a few extra lbs, etc., is the difference between sucesss or failure.

 

[Velocity173]

I’d also add the complexities between this type of flying and flying airplanes. In an airplane I know exactly where I'm landing and the exact weather / DA and runway length for the area. While the FAA, sitting in their cubicles would like to apply fixed wing planning in a rotary wing HAA world, you simply cannot. It’s far too fluid.

There’s no weather reporting for a ski resort. Plenty of times you don’t even know where the scene is located until airborne. Plenty of times the Lat / Lon is incorrect. Arrive at a completely different LZ and bust out an RFM and crunch performance numbers while circling overhead with NVGs on? Then you arrive on scene and the patient doesn’t want to go to XYZ hospital (planned dest). Or you arrive on scene and XYZ hospital is now covered in fog. Now you’re jumping through hoops crunching fuel numbers and going through pages of notams for your new destination.

Your planning is based on imperfect, sometimes old, sometimes flat out wrong data. It’s a job where everyone around you is trying their best to make an already challenging job, that much harder. My philosophy is, know your aircraft like the back of your hand and trust no one.

 

[Piperonca]

While the FAA, sitting in their cubicles would like to apply fixed wing planning in a rotary wing HAA world, you simply cannot. It’s far too fluid...Now you’re jumping through hoops crunching fuel numbers and going through pages of notams for your new destination....Your planning is based on imperfect, sometimes old, sometimes flat out wrong data. It’s a job where everyone around you is trying their best to make an already challenging job, that much harder. My philosophy is, know your aircraft like the back of your hand and trust no one.

Best description of real helicopter work I've read in a while. Valid for Air Ambulance and combat, both.