Forgetting to switch tanks

A

anon

Guest
Anybody ever been flying in an aircraft that requires fuel tanks to be switched (like.... let's say a PA28) and got distracted for various reasons and forget to switch tanks, then have the engine start to cough, sputter and almost quit? Until they ran through the memory items and pushed mixture full rich, turned the fuel pump on and switched to a tank that actually had gas in it and the engine continued to run like nothing happened? Hypothetically speaking.... or asking for a friend.... or something like that....

There have to be others here who know someone this happened to. Or is my friend the only one and should just quit flying and take up pickleball?
 
I bet someone else has forgotten or the G3X in the PA28 I last flew in wouldn't have a GIANT POP UP that said "Change Tanks now"

Your question might morph from "What trendy safe sport can I take up that won't be as likely to kill me?" to "What processes can I put into place that turn switching tanks into something I'm not relying on my memory for?"
 
I learned to fly in a Tomahawk and repeatedly forgot to swicth tanks.

These days, there are so many ways to prompt ourselves. Avionics with timed annunciators. Smartphones and tablets. Even smartwatches. Old school with a paper flight plan? Add a prompt to checkpoints. Tell your...ummm....friend not to be ashamed to use one.
 
I used a popup in my EFB when I flew a PA-28. I have to switch tanks in the Lance too, but I have an engine monitor with very accurate fuel gauges and a totalizer, so I tend to switch based on gallons remaining rather than time these days.

I can't say I ever ran one out, but I'd also say that your [friend's] ability to quickly troubleshoot and restore power is proof that they are pilot material. More than one PA28 has landed in a field with one tank full of gas and the other full of air.
 
I know someone who had it happen in a PA-28. Alternator failure early in the trip on a VFR flight in the morning. In the troubleshooting that ensued and communications with the owner via text, the pilot forgot to switch tanks at his usual time mark/landmark. Upon descent the engine died. Restart was unsuccessful. The wife, who was on her first flight with him after refusing to do so for several years, was in the fetal position after giving him 'that look'. After getting emergency services lined up at the airfield and scouting possible off field locations he decided he could make the runway...possibly at the expense of an approach light or two ;) . In his pre-landing check list he does the fuel check and then it hits him....never changed tanks. At about 75 feet AGL he switches tanks and that wonderful sound reappears. That same wife refuses travel to the beach house by any other means in spite of her initial fl(r)ight (he now has a 182). "She is a keeper" I tell him. @Tools this happened at JKA about a half dozen years back :).
 
I have a pop-up set for each hour on my IFly GPS. Not much chance of missing them or forgetting all of them. Also, helps keep fuel/weight balanced though I don't usually use if for that. My light sport flies just fine with one tank empty and the other full with the electric aileron trim.

Since most of my flights I can do on one tank, I just have to re-fuel one tank. I use auto-fuel almost exclusively and it saves me time just having to refuel one tank. I alternate the tank use.
 
I was flying a C-340 once, solo. It was a short trip so I knew I had more than enough fuel in the main tanks for the trip. I was wondering how much fuel was in the aux tanks. I switched tanks and 20 seconds later I found out how much fuel was in the aux tanks...

And whatinhell is pickleball.??
 
By accident? NO! But intentionally I've done it to see what would happen. I've heard of others doing intentionally as a means of "getting every drop" out of a tank.
 
It's not uncommon to intentionally run tanks dry. I've done it a lot in various airplanes (Bellanca Super Viking, Twin Bonanza, regular Bonanza, various PA28 models, etc.). It's really a non-event. Part of the certification standards are restarts after fuel starvation.

If I'm in a PA28 and I'm planning to land with a 10 gallon reserve, I don't want 5 gallons in each tank; I want all 10 (or as much as practical) in a single tank. The only real way to do that is run one of the tanks dry.
 
I was flying a rented Piper Arrow when the engine quit. I switched to the other tank and it immediately started. But what had me worried was the fuel indicator for the dry tank was reading one quarter. So, I wasn't sure I could trust the other indicator, either.

This happened over the Driftless Area, so if you know what that is, you also know there are very few places where you could find a safe place to land other than airports.
 
Anybody ever been flying in an aircraft that requires fuel tanks to be switched (like.... let's say a PA28) and got distracted for various reasons and forget to switch tanks,
Yes. Running one tank dry was never a big deal. Running them both dry got a little more interesting.
 
More than one PA28 has landed in a field with one tank full of gas and the other full of air.
This happened to a club airplane (that I'm thankfully no longer involved with) with a "highly experienced" CFII and instrument student flying. We finally got the club to make "filling to the tabs" standard so we didn't have to burn off fuel to really use the damn plane. They decided preflight that they didn't need to worry about switching tanks assuming full fuel.

Engine died ~300ft turning crosswind after a TnG. Their landing on the road that parallels the airport was good though. The other tank was still filled to the tab. They were fortunately able to get the airplane on flatbed with the right height to go under the overpass, but over all the signage to get it back to the airport.
 
Anybody ever been flying in an aircraft that requires fuel tanks to be switched (like.... let's say a PA28) and got distracted for various reasons and forget to switch tanks, then have the engine start to cough, sputter and almost quit? Until they ran through the memory items and pushed mixture full rich, turned the fuel pump on and switched to a tank that actually had gas in it and the engine continued to run like nothing happened? Hypothetically speaking.... or asking for a friend.... or something like that....

There have to be others here who know someone this happened to. Or is my friend the only one and should just quit flying and take up pickleball?
I can't count the number of times I've dry tanked. All but twice on purpose. I didn't even bother to go through the checklist when the engine went quiet. Immediately reached between the seats and flipped to a tank with fuel in it (or shut off the valve to the empty one)

I have two fuel selectors in the PA24 with tip tanks.
LEFT - - - - RIGHT
O-T-M - - - - M-T-O

I can draw from both sides at the same time. Sometimes the fuel draw is even, and sometimes it's not. First time it went unexpectedly, it had been drawing even every time I flew it previously. I had ~60 gallons of fuel remaining (both tips and a full left main). The selectors were both on main, but for whatever reason that flight, it pulled only from the right side. Looked at gauges, turned valve. Only lost about 50' of altitude. Second time, I had another pilot with me. Told him to watch the fuel pressure gauge and when it starts to drop let me know. He didn't.

Longest flight I did, I dry tanked 3 out of the 4. Landed with an hour left in one of the mains as calculated. (5h40m flight)
 
Transitioning from high wings with fuel selectors having a BOTH position to low wings without that luxury, forgetting to switch tanks was one of my concerns.
I had already developed an instrument panel scan that included the fuel gauges. That made it easy to add a mental check to switch tanks every half hour, and if I miss it on one panel scan, I will most likely catch it on the next one (a few minutes later). Never ran a tank dry by accident.

One CFI I know teaches this method: in planes analog clocks (or if using a wristwatch with an analog face) check that the fuel selector is set on whichever side (L/R) the minute hand is pointing at. With a digital clock, 0-30 is right, 30-59 is left.
 
Almost all of my flying is in high-wing Cessnas. On cross country trips I usually don't opt for the "Both" option for a couple reasons. One being to start that habit early of checking the gauges. Oftentimes I have a crosswind which favors one gravity feed over another. I've not yet found a Cessna fuel gauge I can trust, though.
 
Hmmm. I am struggling to understand how the wind has any effect on gravity feed in cruise flight.
Because of slipping to keep the plane aligned with the runway. Some planes have time limits on how long you should hold a slip lest ye uncover a fuel port. Shouldn’t be an issue if you do the crab and then kick to a slip thing. Unless the tank is very close to empty.
 
I was seeing how low I could run the baggage aux in my Bonanza. Both of the fuel timers I set went off, and my plan was to continue running until I saw fuel pressure dip then switch tanks to calibrate my fuel flow against how I set my timers. Maybe one minute later, I get a frequency change from ATC. Changed freq, looked back at fuel pressure and it’s zero. The exact moment my brain registered it is when the engine quit. Hand had already made it to the selector, changed tanks, a couple pumps of the emergency fuel pump and it roared back to life right away.
 
I recommend not running a tank dry at night, low level over Detroit. After an 8 hour day, with one's wife.
Just a suggestion. Not that this ever happened. Or could be proven to have happened. Or would be admitted to.
 
I recommend not running a tank dry at night, low level over Detroit. After an 8 hour day, with one's wife.
Just a suggestion. Not that this ever happened. Or could be proven to have happened. Or would be admitted to.
Detroit!!! That would be scary
 
Detroit!!! That would be scary
Blame tiredness (flying from Mexican border that day), distraction (atc was hopping), pushed to a lower altitude for traffic (failure to consider higher fuel flow). That is, IF it happened.
 
Because of slipping to keep the plane aligned with the runway. Some planes have time limits on how long you should hold a slip lest ye uncover a fuel port. Shouldn’t be an issue if you do the crab and then kick to a slip thing. Unless the tank is very close to empty.
I thought you were talking about cruise flight. Slipping on final is a relatively short event, so I would not expect fuel imbalance to be significant.

Yes, with a low amount in the tank it could stop feeding at a critical time in a slip. Same thing with rolling and turning on takeoff, which is why some airplanes have markings on the fuel gauges to show the minimum for takeoff.
 
But what had me worried was the fuel indicator for the dry tank was reading one quarter. So, I wasn't sure I could trust the other indicator, either.

That is why I would rather use my watch instead of the gauges.

I don't know about all planes, but in Cessna single engine when the needles stop bouncing, that tank is very close to being empty.

(don't ask how I learned that...)
 
I thought you were talking about cruise flight. Slipping on final is a relatively short event, so I would not expect fuel imbalance to be significant.

Yes, with a low amount in the tank it could stop feeding at a critical time in a slip. Same thing with rolling and turning on takeoff, which is why some airplanes have markings on the fuel gauges to show the minimum for takeoff.
It wasn’t me but yeah, looking back to the post that led to this was about cruise flight. The crosswind shouldn’t make difference.
 
That is why I would rather use my watch instead of the gauges.

I don't know about all planes, but in Cessna single engine when the needles stop bouncing, that tank is very close to being empty.

(don't ask how I learned that...)
I would rather use both. If you have a leak or misjudge the start amount, the watch can be wrong.
 
A PA28 ran out of fuel in one tank on a training flight about a week ago. Landed on a not yet open part of a new freeway about 5 minutes from the airport.

 
you should not forget to switch to the fullest tank when slipping on approach to KDVT on a moonless DARK night. When the engine doesn't go silent while you stare into a black abyss, you'll thank me.
 
Forgetting to switch from an emptying tank prior to landing sounds like a good way to die.
 
Anybody ever been flying in an aircraft that requires fuel tanks to be switched (like.... let's say a PA28) and got distracted for various reasons and forget to switch tanks, then have the engine start to cough, sputter and almost quit? Until they ran through the memory items and pushed mixture full rich, turned the fuel pump on and switched to a tank that actually had gas in it and the engine continued to run like nothing happened? Hypothetically speaking.... or asking for a friend.... or something like that....

There have to be others here who know someone this happened to. Or is my friend the only one and should just quit flying and take up pickleball?

As you can see, from (most of) the replies, aviation is something will accept only perfection from its practitioners. If you, hypothetical you, or your friend cannot maintain such perfection at all times, perhaps you, hypothetical you, or your friend should turn in your / hypothetical you / their wings. Such as Cougar did in the original topgun.

---------------------------

On a more serious note, I welcome you, hypothetical you, or your friend to reality. EVERY pilot has done things that has resulted in pilot stories. Despite some posters suggesting otherwise, the end of the matter can only be summed up as "it happens". Fortunately, in this case, it really was no big deal. The tank went dry, and the protagonist was able to restore fuel to the engine and at least the plane is none the worse for the experience (The pilot may or may not need a little time to process what has happened). The benefit from this is that it has shown you, hypothetical you, or your friend that you / they has the ability to process an event and handle it successfully instead of locking up or just giving up. This is a very important quality and not everybody has it.

So, I'd just say, good job and welcome to the club if this were the first incident that caused any concern to you, hypothetical you, or your friend. I would also start to work on polishing the story. Maybe have a kid screaming in the background. Add in a passenger who was babbling about "We're all going to die" while the main character laughed defiantly and nonchalantly flipped the tank selector to the proper tank. The pilot then looked at the passenger who was now sobbing inconsolably and demanding to return to earth. The passenger had to be removed by EMS and never flew again, etc etc.
 
Deakin over on Avweb recommends that you do run the tanks dry so you know how much is in them. He says that restarting in such a situation is a certification requirement. I try not to do it with my auxes, but I've done it on a few occasions and it doesn't take more than a second to switch to another tank and have the engine restart.
 
I mean I think you have to line up several things incorrectly to have a fuel issue.

First you have your preflight, you have an idea of how much fuel you have and you have an idea of how long you are flying today.

In flight, if you forgot to change tanks, that’s 25 gallons can run for 2.5 hours conservatively but more likely 3-4 hours without changing tanks. And without changing tanks, there will be a noticeable W&B change that should remind you even if you forgot.

I’ve also been up in the airplane for over 7 hours before, I mean at that point you kind of want to be on the ground anyway and then you should know you are approaching fuel minimums and have your head on a swivel.

Now the time when it does become an issue is when you get distracted, ATC is doing something different, or you are high work load in IMC. I have my GUMPFS check that I go through and I typically have an idea of fuel levels and double check the tank by physically touching it.
 
Deakin over on Avweb recommends that you do run the tanks dry so you know how much is in them. He says that restarting in such a situation is a certification requirement. I try not to do it with my auxes, but I've done it on a few occasions and it doesn't take more than a second to switch to another tank and have the engine restart.
When I wanted to calibrate some ways of determining how much fuel I had, I ran one take until the engine sputtered. Close enough to no usable fuel for me. :D
 
Deakin over on Avweb recommends that you do run the tanks dry so you know how much is in them.

I would do that when I was in Alaska. In the C-206/7 I would run the left tank until the fuel pressure gauge started fluctuating, then switch tanks. Then I would put 30 minutes of fuel in the left tank for reserve and leave it, then run off the right tank, filling as needed.

Remembering that I flew 75-100 hours a month along the same routes. I knew how much gas was needed for each flight, plus or minus a little for weather. And no, I did not tanker gas. Fuel as needed for the flight then load up with revenue.
I would rather use both
Nothing wrong with that, either.
 
Almost all of my flying is in high-wing Cessnas. On cross country trips I usually don't opt for the "Both" option for a couple reasons. One being to start that habit early of checking the gauges. Oftentimes I have a crosswind which favors one gravity feed over another. I've not yet found a Cessna fuel gauge I can trust, though.
Some Cessnas have a habit of running the left tank down first. That's because the underwing vent comes into the left tank, and the air travels from there to the right tank via a crossover tube that runs from the top inboard of the left tank to the top inboard of the right. When the tanks are full, that line is full of fuel, so the vent pressure on the left tank pushes fuel through it and into the right, which will stay full until the left side drops to below the vent crossover fitting.

Some 172s up until about the mid-M model range would feed unevenly due to air getting into the fuel lines from the tank as the fuel sloshed around. A bubble would leave the tank and once it got into the vertical section of the line behind the aft doorpost, it would stay there, floating upward at the same rate as the fuel flowed down and around it, making it stay put. That restriction on one side would leave the other tank free to take up the slack, so it would empty faster. The fix was the placard that says to "Switch to single-tank operation above 5000 feet." With only one tank feeding, any bubbles were carried along by the faster fuel flow, through the system and into the carb, where it was released through the carb bowl vent. Cessna started making a connection from the line as it left the tank, and ran another line upward to tee into the crossover line to extract those bubbles. A retrofit kit is available to fix earlier models.

Cessna revised their service manuals maybe 20 years ago to include a fuel gauge check as part of an annual/100-hour inspection. Of course, maybe 1 or 2% of airplanes get this. They want the tanks drained down to the unusable fuel level, and the gauges should read Empty. Fill the tanks, and the gauges should read full. This is a whole lotta work, and gives no idea what the gauges are doing anywhere between the E and F. So I did it a little differently.

I used a stiff wire bent to a suitable shape to reach into the fuel tank through the filler. I insulated it with a length of skinny shrink tubing just to avoid grounding the wire in case I touched something live at the sender. While a helper was watching the gauges, I would lift the float wire up to max, and the gauge would read full if everything was set right. Then I'd push the float wire down, and the gauge would read empty, and the float should not touch the bottom of the tank. When we got airplanes into the fleet, the gauges were usually out of calibration, and it was because someone had previously worked on the sender, maybe replacing the gasket, and had bent the float wire or the stops on the sender.

Sometimes it was worn senders. The OEM senders were a coil of resistance wire, and a carbon button "runner" moved along the coil to vary the resistance. That button wears out, and the tempered copper lever then starts wearing at the wire, and eventually the wire shorts or tears, and the gauge is doing weird things or is just dead. That sender is moving all the time if the airplane is tied down outside and the wind is rocking it a little, moving the fuel just enough to move the sender float. It wears out even when you're not using the airplane!

If those gauges and senders are looked after, they can be quite accurate, as per FAR 91:


91.205 Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.

(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approved equivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition.
(b) Visual-flight rules (day). For VFR flight during the day, the following instruments and equipment are required:
<snip>
(9) Fuel gauge indicating the quantity of fuel in each tank.
 
Deakin over on Avweb recommends that you do run the tanks dry so you know how much is in them. He says that restarting in such a situation is a certification requirement. I try not to do it with my auxes, but I've done it on a few occasions and it doesn't take more than a second to switch to another tank and have the engine restart.
Maybe should be past tense. John has gone west.
 
When I wanted to calibrate some ways of determining how much fuel I had, I ran one take until the engine sputtered. Close enough to no usable fuel for me. :D
And then when you refilled that tank, how accurate was the POH usable fuel number?

-Skip
 
Set an alarm!
When it goes off----himm what was that all about?
"oh yea!"

IMO, Just don't be switichng in any phase but cruise....
 
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