Favorite/Most Difficult IAP's?

Cpt_Kirk

Cpt_Kirk

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Ted Striker
What are some of the most difficult instrument approaches that you have run into? Any kind that really tested your ability to handle the entire situation? What are some of the most fun? VOR to LOC, NDB, ARC to ILS/VOR, etc.

Published visual procedures work, too. I've only seen the Visual 19 into KDCA.

USA only, please.
 
It's been simplified since then, but in the old days (1970-72 was when I flew it frequently) the Santa Barbara LOC/ILS 7 was a lot of fun. From Fillmore VORTAC you went in a westerly direction 30-some nm to CHANNEL, then a ~45° left turn to GOLETA, then a ~45° right turn to LOBSTER, ~90° right turn to HALIBUT, where you made a ~90° turn onto the localizer. (This was in the days before intersections were limited to five-letter names.) Try it with a single VOR, no DME, no transponder, and of course no LORAN or GPS.

I've never flown it, of course, but the "Checkerboard" Runway 13 visual step-down approach to the old Kai Tak Airport in Hong Kong had to have been a challenge, especially in large airplanes at high approach speeds.

[EDIT: Sorry, didn't catch the 'USA only' in the OP]
 
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I never got to fly into Kai Tak commercially, it was already closed (1998) before the first time I went to Hong Kong. But, I have heard a lot of stories from people who went in there on commercial flights, saying that it was quite a thrill!
 
LAR arc to VOR 30, don't get low or you'll be in the rocks.

ASE will put you in a hole you may have trouble climbing out of. LAR will put you into the ridge if you screw up just a little bit...
 
The approach to Juneau Alaska, PAJN, is full of peril. It is an LDA, and you cant receive the localizer at the turn into it due to terrain issues blocking the signal, so pilots tend to blow right through it. Fortunately ATC up there is aware of this and keeps everyone informed. The missed is major exciting, making a 180 degree turn in the mountains, it is tight. When an airliner has to go missed there, everyone holds their breath. Note the "ADF required".
 
ARFlyer said:
You can always pull something out of your hat. :rofl:
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I've taken a few trainees on the ROA approach and had them look out from under the hood to the south side about halfway down final -- always gets a "holy [something]" out of them.

I thought anything over 6* turned the approach into an SDF?!?
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Anything over 3 degrees turns an ILS/LOC into an LDA (Localizer-type Directional Aid). Two places with 1-2 degree angle ILS/LOC's are Wilkes-Barre PA and Charlottesville VA, and it's always a bit disconcerting to be watching a centered lateral needle while not quite lined up with the runway. An SDF (Simplified Directional Facility) is a different system completely, with a more VOR-like level of sensitivity (6-12 degrees full width compared to usually about 3 degrees laterally for a LOC), and it can be aligned or way off under the same name. I remember one at Norwood MA, but it's gone now (replaced by a LOC), and I don't know of any SDF's off the top of my head.
 
Ron Levy said:
An SDF (Simplified Directional Facility) is a different system completely, with a more VOR-like level of sensitivity (6-12 degrees full width compared to usually about 3 degrees laterally for a LOC), and it can be aligned or way off under the same name. I remember one at Norwood MA, but it's gone now (replaced by a LOC), and I don't know of any SDF's off the top of my head.
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Here is one at KLBO. Only two active ones left in the US, according to WP.
 
ARFlyer said:
The LDA into Fayetteville, AR is also a fun one to fly. It's the most offset LDA in the country with a glideslope. It basically shoots you down an angled valley.

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1411/00728LDAD34.PDF
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That's nice, but it's not more offset than this one:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1411/00443ROSSLYNLDA19.PDF

This sends you between office buildings and when you get to the end of the LDA/GS you still aren't at the airport.

Of course, your chances of flying this approach are extremely slim due to the security theatre involved.
 
Ron Levy said:
Anything over 3 degrees turns an ILS/LOC into an LDA (Localizer-type Directional Aid).
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I still have Martha King going "Localizer Darn Angle" approach in the back of my head.

The questions on the Instrument written for SDF and LDA were some of the more horrendous examples in bad test writing around.

Frankly they should nix the questions on SDFs and MLSs if they still exist. What a strange piece of near-useless trivia.
 
Not very difficult but somewhat of a unique approach. It's "USA" as well. :D
 

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This one is lined up with the runway and comes over some nasty terrain (and rather steeply):

KUKIRNAV-B_zpsfd1bea16.jpg
 
Velocity173 said:
Not very difficult but somewhat of a unique approach. It's "USA" as well. :D
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Other than being marked EMERGENCY USE ONLY what's unique about it? Looks like a pretty standard COPTER approach which there are plenty of civilian examples of that don't look much different. I do think the waypoint names are kind of cute.

Ooops...missed the comment about "numerous aircraft and craters on runway" note....

Doesn't look in too bad shape in this photo:https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...5494941,2657m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
 
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flyingron said:
Other than being marked EMERGENCY USE ONLY what's unique about it? Looks like a pretty standard COPTER approach which there are plenty of civilian examples of that don't look much different. I do think the waypoint names are kind of cute.

Ooops...missed the comment about "numerous aircraft and craters on runway" note....

Doesn't look in too bad shape in this photo:https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...5494941,2657m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
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Yeah craters courtesy of the U.S. Navy / Air Force. I thought it was ironic that they spent the whole year repairing a runway of self inflicted damage. My last day there we recieved our first FW (IL-76) on the newly repaired runway. Of course now the whole place is under ISIS control so, oh well.
 
In my limited time I can't really say which approach was difficult. My dad tells me the visuals into LGA and DCA are fun and challenging. He also likes the approach into Sao Paolo and Nice
 
jordane93 said:
In my limited time I can't really say which approach was difficult. My dad tells me the visuals into LGA and DCA are fun and challenging. He also likes the approach into Sao Paolo and Nice
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The River Visual to DCA 19 was easy because of all the landmarks and very small turns. OTOH, the LGA Expressway Visual was always a challenge, especially at night.
 
I like the Parkway visual into 13 at JFK. A lot of sequenced flashers on that approach.
 
Velocity173 said:
Not very difficult but somewhat of a unique approach. It's "USA" as well. :D
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Ha! I was a controller there for a year back in 2011. The only fixed wings that used that runway were the C-12's and Iraqi T-6's.
 
Don't know if this one is mentioned yet.

Provo UT, ILS Rwy 13 from the Fairfield IAF, complete through the missed approach and holding.
5 Nav Radio Frequency changes, FAF outbound radial to the PVU Arc to the I-PVU ILS to the PVU outbound radial on missed approach climb out to the FAF inbound radial for holding. Make sure you know your radio plan.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Other approaches are probably better options in real life, but this is a great CRM evaluation tool in the sim. :)
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I've had friends who have flown that DME arc approach in actual, to mins, because that was their only option due to the ILS being out at MTN.
 
No one has mentioned the "Widowmaker" - a staple for USAF pilot training. Tough to keep up going 300kias and only having one tacan!
031b9dd8e8c74497245eab801888fcf6.jpg
 
Is the "caution tape" markings to define it as a USAF approach?

I have noticed this in the NACO books since I started flying, but could never get a straight answer from fellow students/CFIs.
 
ARFlyer said:
Is the "caution tape" markings to define it as a USAF approach?

I have noticed this in the NACO books since I started flying, but could never get a straight answer from fellow students/CFIs.
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It's to flag out to a fighter pilot that it is a "penetration" (HIgh) approach.
 
BillTIZ said:
Don't know if this one is mentioned yet.

Provo UT, ILS Rwy 13 from the Fairfield IAF, complete through the missed approach and holding.
5 Nav Radio Frequency changes, FAF outbound radial to the PVU Arc to the I-PVU ILS to the PVU outbound radial on missed approach climb out to the FAF inbound radial for holding. Make sure you know your radio plan.
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I flew that approach in a Piper Cheyenne back in February. IFR at the time but well above mins. Beautiful place.
 
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