Dan Gryder Lockheed Electra Crash

SkyChaser said:
Considering that the plane only outweighs a 2023 Chevy Tahoe by about 100 pounds despite having two engines, I think the modern auto has a bit more room in the weight category to enhance safety and collisions features.
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This is certainly true - BUT - not all safety features add weight. Crumple zones and structural design with an eye towards impact response does not always require additional material.

Collapsible columns, crumple zones, crush structures, etc., can all be applied in ways that add little if any weight, but can improve survivability in this sort of collision. Yes, things like intrusion bars and airbags are costly in both weight and $$$, but they are only part of the story. Modern race cars utilize these design techniques very successfully, and they are much closer to the weight of a LSA than a Tahoe.

None of that is going to help with a plane of the age of the Lockheed, but I would surmise that newer designs could be improved without adding much in the way of cost or weight.
 
StraightnLevel said:
This is certainly true - BUT - not all safety features add weight. Crumple zones and structural design with an eye towards impact response does not always require additional material.

Collapsible columns, crumple zones, crush structures, etc., can all be applied in ways that add little if any weight, but can improve survivability in this sort of collision. Yes, things like intrusion bars and airbags are costly in both weight and $$$, but they are only part of the story. Modern race cars utilize these design techniques very successfully, and they are much closer to the weight of a LSA than a Tahoe.

None of that is going to help with a plane of the age of the Lockheed, but I would surmise that newer designs could be improved without adding much in the way of cost or weight.
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Dude, the entire nose cone was a crumple zone or they'd all be dead.
 
StraightnLevel said:
What seems odd is that a collision with a tree at that same speed in a modern auto would likely result in little or no injury, other than to the wallet.
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Hmmmm. Not sure that adding frontal crash protection to a plane would be that practical.

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Perhaps an opportunity here for the new Dan Gryder STC??
 
@Bill
My father treated a lot of facial trauma from MVA's back in the 60's and 70's. Back in the days of near non-existent seat belt use and metal dashboards. The frequency and severity of the injuries were MUCH higher than when I trained for the same profession 25yrs later. The majority of my trauma training was interpersonal violence and much less MVA as the mechanism of injury. Of course, I received MUCH more thorough GSW training than my pop. ;) (Charity Hospital- New Orleans 60's vs late 80's-mid 90's)
 
robin ardoin said:
@Bill
My father treated a lot of facial trauma from MVA's back in the 60's and 70's. Back in the days of near non-existent seat belt use and metal dashboards. The frequency and severity of the injuries were MUCH higher than when I trained for the same profession 25yrs later. The majority of my trauma training was interpersonal violence and much less MVA as the mechanism of injury. Of course, I received MUCH more thorough GSW training than my pop. ;) (Charity Hospital- New Orleans 60's vs late 80's-mid 90's)
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I commend you for that work, I'm glad there are people out there to save us and put us back together.
 
robin ardoin said:
My father treated a lot of facial trauma from MVA's back in the 60's and 70's. Back in the days of near non-existent seat belt use and metal dashboards. The frequency and severity of the injuries were MUCH higher than when I trained for the same profession 25yrs later.
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And that's even after our mothers prevented so many injuries by reaching across the front seat and holding us back from the dashboard with one arm!
 
robin ardoin said:
@Bill
My father treated a lot of facial trauma from MVA's back in the 60's and 70's. Back in the days of near non-existent seat belt use and metal dashboards. The frequency and severity of the injuries were MUCH higher than when I trained for the same profession 25yrs later. The majority of my trauma training was interpersonal violence and much less MVA as the mechanism of injury. Of course, I received MUCH more thorough GSW training than my pop. ;) (Charity Hospital- New Orleans 60's vs late 80's-mid 90's)
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I started in law enforcement in the 80s and retired in 2017. The number of fatal and serious injury crashes during that period went down impressively. People are now surviving crashes that used to be fatal, and walking away from wrecks that used to be maiming. Rollovers used to mostly be fatal, but these days it’s common for the only injuries to be bruises. Between cars’ safety features and modern medicine, the good ol’ days are right now.
 
Racerx said:
It'll buff right out.
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Remember when that statement was actually funny the first time we heard it several hundred times (and several decades) ago.

Could the mods buff out the ability to post that statement.

If they do, I promise to stop saying “Any conflicting traffic please advise” after my VFR position reports.
 
ateamer said:
I started in law enforcement in the 80s and retired in 2017. The number of fatal and serious injury crashes during that period went down impressively. People are now surviving crashes that used to be fatal, and walking away from wrecks that used to be maiming. Rollovers used to mostly be fatal, but these days it’s common for the only injuries to be bruises. Between cars’ safety features and modern medicine, the good ol’ days are right now.
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Seat belts are a big change. Back in the 80's they were still semi-optional in some circles. Now you would be viewed as a lunatic for driving without one. And cars are a whole lot more aggressive about warning you. My Tesla is basically undrivable with the belt unbuckled. The shrieking is impossible to ignore.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I’d bet it gets fully restored.
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Seems like it was the hardest to rebuild part of the plane that got smashed. I didn't realize they were million dollar planes though.

That brings us back to the question of who the hell bases a million+ dollar airplane at that tiny grass strip?
 
172andyou said:
And that's even after our mothers prevented so many injuries by reaching across the front seat and holding us back from the dashboard with one arm!
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I remember sitting in my friends parents station wagon. There were back seats in the back of the station wagon that opened up from the floor of the cargo area.
 
172andyou said:
And that's even after our mothers prevented so many injuries by reaching across the front seat and holding us back from the dashboard with one arm!
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Ciggie in the left hand, right hand on the wheel…. How in the world did they manage to catch us?
 
kyleb said:
Ciggie in the left hand, right hand on the wheel…. How in the world did they manage to catch us?
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They made ‘em tougher back then. My grandma hiked the Grand Canyon on the 4th of July with a pint of water and half a sandwich. I wish I was half as tough as my grandma.
 
Palmpilot said:
The Greek gods may have been mythical, but Mount Olympus is a real place. In fact, there are at least two of them: one in Greece, and one in Washington state.
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And one in Wisconsin Dells with America's tallest water slide. https://www.mtolympuspark.com/
FlightofTwo said:
I thought you were supposed to start with "Caffeinate".
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xkcd.com

Pilot Priority List

xkcd.com xkcd.com
Alt text: "Celebrate: Serve passengers tiered cakes shaped like the airspace class diagram."
ElPaso Pilot said:
Hmmmm. Not sure that adding frontal crash protection to a plane would be that practical.

View attachment 130663


Perhaps an opportunity here for the new Dan Gryder STC??
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That looks like something I'd expect to see driving around Camp Scholler in Oshkosh.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Seat belts are a big change. Back in the 80's they were still semi-optional in some circles. Now you would be viewed as a lunatic for driving without one. And cars are a whole lot more aggressive about warning you. My Tesla is basically undrivable with the belt unbuckled. The shrieking is impossible to ignore.
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I grew up in the 80s. No one I knew wore a seatbelt, unless you had one of those fancy cars with the automatic shoulder harness. As a kid my seat in the car was on the fold down armrest in the middle.of the front bench seat of my dad's Oldsmobile. I don't recall ever being in a car seat or booster seat as a kid, today they are required until they practically can drive! If I remember right, seat belts didn't become law until around the time I learned to drive, and we hated them. Today you almost feel naked without it.
 
Ed Haywood said:
Seat belts are a big change.
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I still recall an article I saw in Popular Science or Popular Mechanics back in the 1950’s. Virtually no cars had seat belts, and the article was about a pilot who had the revolutionary idea of putting a seatbelt in his car, complete with photo! I don’t think anyone could have foreseen nearly universal seatbelt use at the time.

Can’t find that article, but did find this one about the history of seatbelts in cars:

www.popsci.com

Innovations in Driving: The Seat Belt

I remember the precise moment when I vowed never to drive, or even ride, in a car without wearing a snugged-up seat belt. It was the afternoon of Sunday, May 25, 1975, during ABC’s broadcast – tape-delayed back in those days – of the Indianapolis 500. Lap 126, for those keeping score at home.
www.popsci.com www.popsci.com
 
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midwestpa24 said:
I grew up in the 80s. No one I knew wore a seatbelt, unless you had one of those fancy cars with the automatic shoulder harness. As a kid my seat in the car was on the fold down armrest in the middle.of the front bench seat of my dad's Oldsmobile. I don't recall ever being in a car seat or booster seat as a kid, today they are required until they practically can drive! If I remember right, seat belts didn't become law until around the time I learned to drive, and we hated them. Today you almost feel naked without it.
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I was pretty young when Dad brought home seat belt kits and installed them himself in our car and pickup. No one I knew had them at that time.

A few years later, we were among the first to have the third, high brake light, installed by Dad from a kit on the car's hat shelf.

I only figured out later he got ahead of the curve on those because at the time he was working at a wrecking yard. Watching smashed cars getting winched off of the flatbeds all day got him thinking...
 
My first new car was a 1960 Chevrolet. Seat belts were not an option.

My brother and I were both active in the Hot Rod game, and both had seen crashes where seat belts had saved a friend, even though the car had been destroyed.

Shortly after buying that car, I bought 2 sets of high quality lap belts, and installed them in the front seats, using much larger steel plates with the fender washers supplied. I have never owned a car since that did not have seat belts, which has been wasted money, as I have never had an accident that made them useful. Sarcasm here! :)

In commercial airliners, I keep the belt fastened and tight, and in the planes that I fly GA, the same is true. Our Cessna's were retrofitted with shoulder harness, and I keep then just loose enough to reach the controls.

After all those years, riding in busses and trains, I am uncomfortable without a seat belt in place while in motion.

I have no doubt that the Volvo statement the the 20% of drivers who do not use seat belts have 2/3rds of the fatal accidents.

Years ago, a close friend had a collision with the side of a tractor trailer going the opposite direction, spun 360 degrees down the side of the truck/trailer, both doors of his '30's coupe opened and were smashed, but he remained inside, with his dual shoulder strap and belt. The only body part salvaged was the trunk lid.

He had no injuries, and will soon celebrate his 90th birthday.

That accident occurred shortly before I bought that new Chevrolet.
 
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geezer said:
I have no doubt that the Volvo statement the the 20% of drivers who do not use seat belts have 2/3rds of the fatal accidents.
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Likewise with wearing helmets on motorcycles. I still can't believe they aren't required like seatbelts. Nearly two decades as an emergency responder, and every motorcycle fatality I've been to could have been prevented by a helmet. None were the graphic high speed crashes you would imagine, most were lower speed and dumped the bike or went over the handlebars and smashed their skulls on the pavement.
 
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midwestpa24 said:
Likewise with wearing helmets on motorcycles. I still can't believe they aren't required like seatbelts. Nearly two decades as an emergency responder, and every motorcycle fatality. I've been to could have been prevented by a helmet. None were the graphic high speed crashes you would imagine, most were lower speed and dumped the bike or went over the handlebars and smashed their skulls on the pavement.
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Absolutely! Fifteen years ago I had a driver hit me from behind while I was in the right lane of the interstate (he was flying and I never saw him coming). By the grace of God and a helmet my life was saved. The motorcycle was destroyed. It hurt a lot for a few days and a little for a lot of days but there was no real lasting injury.

When I met my wife she knew that I rode motorcycles and told me that I had to wear a helmet as it was the law. I told her it wasn't in this state and she said it was her law! I didn't mind as I always have. A family member I ride with was a training officer for EMS and they always wore a helmet. I knew if they thought it was a good idea then I had made the correct decision ...
 
midwestpa24 said:
… Nearly two decades as an emergency responder, and every motorcycle fatality I've been to could have been prevented by a helmet...
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Not arguing, I’m ATGATT and know the helmet can help but is no guarantee.

In the three MC fatals where I knew the deceased, a helmet would not have mattered. One was hamburgered by an 18 wheeler at the Eglin ACC gate & Niceville cutodf, one was t-boned by an ‘80s era Volvo in Aviano, one t-boned the barrier on an overpass and then got hit by a vehicle below on I-44 in OKC. The last one’s toxicology was interesting as was his family situation; both were probably contributing factors at 0230.
 
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