Where is the ideal place to train? (I'll relocate)

1autohauler

Filing Flight Plan
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wannabe
So.... I'm older. I've dreamed of being a pilot all my life. And I'm a pragmatist. I love to find ways to do things most efficiently and economically.
With that in mind, I've contemplated (perhaps) unconventional paths to a private ticket. Start with glider training? Benefits being: lower cost, and a great initial foundation in stick & rudder skills. Especially if winch launching is an option. (Trouble is: there seem to be few locations equipped with winches.)
Is there a great club somewhere with fabulous CFIs; a vibrant aviation community? People looking to partner in ownership, or trade labor? Trying to think outside the box and evaluate options. Can we discuss it?
 
I'm trying to get my PPL at Victor Air in Erie, CO at KEIK. Don't come here. Their flight instruction seems to be second fiddle to everything else. They only have a few planes and a few instructors. Twice they've canceled lessons (for good reasons), but never called me.

I previously flew at Aerodynamic Aviation in San Jose at Reid-Hillview Airport (KRHV). Their prime focus is on flight instruction. They have a lot of planes, mostly 172s, but others, including a Cutlass, Citabrias, and Decathalon. They also have a lot of instructors. They always called because of a cancelation and there was quite a camaraderie there. None of that at Victor Air. The owners there have a syllabus that all the CFI's use. For various reasons, I had a lot of instructors there, and learned something new from each of them, but they all required the same tolerances on the maneuvers.

AA's (I liked to call the, Aviators Anonymous) checklists are much better than Victor Air's and by the time you solo at AA, you are flying to PPL standards.

I could go on.

I am tempted to temporarily move back to Silicon Valley during the CO winter and finish my PPL there. I'm a little more than 2 chapters away from finishing Rod Machado's Private and Commercial Pilot Handbook. Then, I'll get an online course and do the tests until I'm scoring well. I'll need a CFI's endorsement to take the Knowledge Exam, but I could probably pass it right now.
 
I am in Austin, Texas also looking for flight schools, ATP seems very popular however I want get licensed as fast as possible and I’m not sure if it would be going though a large commercial airliner with a contact. I do have a close friend who owns a TBM 850, Kodiak 900 and a Cirrus and a few others that he would let me borrow and I could get hours with a private instructor. I just don’t know what would be the quickest and best career wise between the two. I know of Simply fly and some classes in Georgetown but please let me know. Open to any and all suggestions. Also I’m currently working full time with as a master service advisor and warranty administrator for BMW, ASE certified technician. Currently I would like to train part time while still earning but I do plan on leaving and am willing to do whatever it takes.
 
So.... I'm older. I've dreamed of being a pilot all my life. And I'm a pragmatist. I love to find ways to do things most efficiently and economically.
With that in mind, I've contemplated (perhaps) unconventional paths to a private ticket. Start with glider training? Benefits being: lower cost, and a great initial foundation in stick & rudder skills. Especially if winch launching is an option. (Trouble is: there seem to be few locations equipped with winches.)
Is there a great club somewhere with fabulous CFIs; a vibrant aviation community? People looking to partner in ownership, or trade labor? Trying to think outside the box and evaluate options. Can we discuss it?

I can’t speak to the soaring community, but Arizona may have some options. I seem to recall someone here talking about their experience doing this lately.

Doing a PPL economically usually involves a club. Plus One Flyers and Pacific Coast Flyers would be where I’d look at, but COL might eat any savings.
 
First things first, medical, written, funding in that order!

If you can’t pass the medical, you don’t get your PPL.

Get the written out of the way so that you have that base book knowledge and ref material to fall back on.

Funding, assume $175/hr wet and another $75 for an instructor so $250/hr and let’s say 80 hour to make it round numbers so $20 grand or as we say 20 AMU “aviation monetary units”

Why do you need the funds? Well you should schedule to fly 4-5 times per week for 3 hours and that will result in 1.5 to 2.0 hours logged per lesson and you won’t be forgetting as much between sessions.

The expensive way is to fly an hour a week for a year, repeating lesson over and over and then running out of funds so you take a year off to be make at ground zero.

Now to the location, I have had good results in Tucson AZ at Ryan field during the winter season Nov to Feb. Clear to fly most days at that time.


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Where in SEGa are you?
 
I'm in Woodbine. Pretty much the very SE corner. Jacksonville, FL is within reach. Also Brunswick.
I'm trying to plan for a couple years in the future. Maybe by then I'll be ready to move. And will have put aside some funds. Great advice from Moose--to be prepared to concentrate the training a bit. I've heard that said before.
In the meantime I can finish putting together my flight simulator, and try out the Gleim course that integrates with Xplane.
 
home of Capt Stan’s BBQ.
 
I would stay away from the "puppy mills." Those places that recycle students as instructors and churn out "pilots."

I like your idea of starting with gliders. There is a place in Parkersburg, WV that does winch tows. But even if you only do aerotows, you will be a better stick and rudder pilot.

If you really want to cement the stick and rudder skills, do your initial training, through solo, in a tailwheel aircraft.

I agree that flying more often is better 3 - 5 times per week is better than once a week. More than 1.3 - 1.5 hours in air per lesson is too much in the early portion of your training. You will just overload your brain.

There is a reason that the US military training bases are where they are. Due to more good weather. Good for the VFR portion of training, not as good for instrument training.
 
Inside an airplane is usually the best place
Agree. IMHO, I’d would skip spending money on simulators, gliders, etc. It just takes time and money away from ppl training.

Don’t get me wrong - glider flying would be a kick. But my advice is about resource / time management, prioritization.
 
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There shouldn’t be a reason to relocate to get your ppl. I would get the ppl, get a year or two of flying. Then decide if you want to relocate to an area with more pilots. You might find flying to be more enjoyable than pilots. They can be opinionated and insufferable at times. And yeah, I have a ppl myself….. :).
 
I'm in Woodbine. Pretty much the very SE corner. Jacksonville, FL is within reach. Also Brunswick.
I'm trying to plan for a couple years in the future. Maybe by then I'll be ready to move. And will have put aside some funds. Great advice from Moose--to be prepared to concentrate the training a bit. I've heard that said before.
In the meantime I can finish putting together my flight simulator, and try out the Gleim course that integrates with Xplane.
HEG is an uncontrolled airport in the greater Jacksonville area. There is a glider club based there. North Florida Soaring Society I think. It’s a good group of people and you could probably get an intro flight with them to see if that’s the right path for you. I know they have some two seater gliders.
 
I'm trying to get my PPL at Victor Air in Erie, CO at KEIK. Don't come here. Their flight instruction seems to be second fiddle to everything else. They only have a few planes and a few instructors. Twice they've canceled lessons (for good reasons), but never called me.
It can't be a priority for them when frequent bad weather makes cancellation unavoidable. Schools are concentrated in the southeast and desert southwest for a reason. No excuse for not calling, though. Could be the need to cancel wasn't certain, and they didn't want to risk waiving off a flyable lesson. There's a benefit to the student to fly more often and not cancel needlessly, but that might not have been the primary motivator.
I previously flew at Aerodynamic Aviation in San Jose at Reid-Hillview Airport (KRHV).
Curious name. Is there any aviation that is not aerodynamic?
 
Is there any aviation that is not aerodynamic?

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The question is, are you trying to same time or money? Or just get the best training you can get.

Different scenarios means different answers.
 
I'm trying to save money; not particularly interested in saving time. I learn best with lots of repetition. Soaring club with a winch seems ideal from the standpoint of minimizing cost per hour. Making it more feasible to log sufficient weekly hours to keep the learning advancing, even on a modest budget. At least in the initial phase. I'm thinking I could concentrate on getting a solid foundation and not feel pressured to check off all the boxes within a short time span.
There are a number of things in my mind. One is the concept of immersion. I'd love to surround myself with pilots in my everyday life. Be a part of that community. Kind of like a hangar bum, advanced placement.
As far as relocating, I have an interest in doing that anyway. I have no strong ties to my current location, and I'm ready for a change. Vibrant GA community would be a great selling point as I consider where I might look to call home.
 
There shouldn’t be a reason to relocate to get your ppl. I would get the ppl, get a year or two of flying. Then decide if you want to relocate to an area with more pilots. You might find flying to be more enjoyable than pilots. They can be opinionated and insufferable at times. And yeah, I have a ppl myself….. :).
You may be right. I'm sure I could find a way to train locally. But I still want to meet like-minded people. I can deal with opinionated. I'm rather opinionated myself. It's great to have friends with whom you share a passion.
 
So.... I'm older. I've dreamed of being a pilot all my life. And I'm a pragmatist. I love to find ways to do things most efficiently and economically.
With that in mind, I've contemplated (perhaps) unconventional paths to a private ticket. Start with glider training? Benefits being: lower cost, and a great initial foundation in stick & rudder skills. Especially if winch launching is an option. (Trouble is: there seem to be few locations equipped with winches.)
Is there a great club somewhere with fabulous CFIs; a vibrant aviation community? People looking to partner in ownership, or trade labor? Trying to think outside the box and evaluate options. Can we discuss it?
Unfortunately, there is rarely anything economical about personal flying. Winches are relatively rare in the US as noted; gliders will give some energy management lessons and along with stick and rudder skills, but most who do it are in for the passion of soaring.

Part 141 schools used to seem like a good choice since the syllabus is known ahead of time for each lesson, and there are phase gates to get through. So no 40 hours in the pattern before solo type of instruction. Cessna Pilot Centers did this in the past, don't know about today.
 
Is there a great club somewhere
Search for an EAA chapter in your area. They usually organize fly-outs, which are a great way to get your feet wet. Also, there are usually CFIs in the chapter, and people that can recommend CFIs and flight schools. It will also give you access to people who already made most of the training mistakes you are about to make, so you can learn from their experience instead of paying money to repeat them.

While some people told you to get the written out of the way first, I will give you a different opinion - start studying as you train, because a lot of things make more sense once you practice them in-flight. You should be ready to take the written about half way between solo and checkride, at the latest.
 
I'll get an online course and do the tests until I'm scoring well. I'll need a CFI's endorsement to take the Knowledge Exam, but I could probably pass it right now.
When you complete the online course, and pass the exam, you will get the endorsement to take the knowledge exam. You don't need it from any other CFI, it's included with the course.
 
phoenix, tulsa and southern florida. I would say california but it gets a bit expensive to live there if you aren't out in the boonies
 
The issue with a soaring club is that is likely that it only operates on weekends. So you would be losing the whole work week
 
And, your hours soaring don’t count to the required hours and tasks for the PPL. Still need the min 40, solo, XC solo, night, 3 hrs instrument, etc.
 
And, your hours soaring don’t count to the required hours and tasks for the PPL. Still need the min 40, solo, XC solo, night, 3 hrs instrument, etc.
Not entirely true, but more true than it used to be. Prior to the rule changes is the 90's. My friend transitioned to Airplane Single Engine Land with less than 10 hours in a power airplane, a tailwheel (Cessna 120) at that.

Cross country time, done in Glider.
Tower/ATC, done in glider
I don't think there was any time requirement for Instrument time, I think I have like .7 hrs of instrument training on my log book when I took my PP Check ride.
Only thing he really needed to do in the airplane was the night training.

Funny story when he took his Airplane checkride, After the emergency procedure (simulated power Failure) the examiner said I think that was the 1st time you relaxed during the checkride. My friend responded with, see that line in the field I picked to land in, That is the wheel track from where I landed my glider there last week.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
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When you complete the online course, and pass the exam, you will get the endorsement to take the knowledge exam. You don't need it from any other CFI, it's included with the course.
And, your hours soaring don’t count to the required hours and tasks for the PPL. Still need the min 40, solo, XC solo, night, 3 hrs instrument, etc.

Not entirely true, but more true than it used to be. Prior to the rule changes is the 90's. My friend transitioned to Airplane Single Engine Land with less than 10 hours in a power airplane, a tailwheel (Cessna 120) at that.

Cross country time, done in Glider.
Tower/ATC, done in glider
I don't think there was any time requirement for Instrument time, I think I have like .7 hrs of instrument training on my log book when I took my PP Check ride.
Only thing he really need to do in the airplane was the night training.

Funny story when he took his Airplane checkride, After the emergency procedure (simulated power Failure) the examiner said I think that was the 1st time you relaxed during the checkride. My friend responded with, see that line in the field I picked to land in, That is the wheel track from where I landed my glider there last week.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Oh, well that makes sense. I was sort of surprised to learn that soaring counts toward your overall hours just in general. But then again, why not? My son started with powered flying, got his PPL and instrument rating, then caught the soaring bug. He's been building hours in gliders and now has decided to pursue a career path. All that time spent helped him get a boost going forward. And kept him active when otherwise frequent flying was cost prohibitive.
 
I'd echo again the first step is get a 3rd class medical.

After that - I'd be curious what you'd like to do with a private ticket? Looking to go for $100 burgers and sunset flights? Cross country travel? Airplane camping/backcountry?
That'd somewhat dictate where I'd go. For the purpose of just get a PPL, first places that come to mind are most of Florida and the Phoenix area - consistent flying weather year round so a large flying community. I'd personally steer clear of the pilot mills unless you want to burn some extra cash and your intent is to run and gun for an airline job.

Beyond that, I'd look for a place that specializes in what you want to do with your ticket. Some pretty vibrant aviation up in Alaska for backcountry operation - be ready to pay and be there for the relatively short flying season though. Or if travel is your thing, find a place where you might be able to do some training in an airframe you're interested in. I'd also toss in a random plug for an ag aviation flight school - good stick and rudder basics, the chance to learn tailwheel, and a good foundation for anything you might like to do. I've heard good things about Riggin in SD.
 
When you complete the online course, and pass the exam, you will get the endorsement to take the knowledge exam. You don't need it from any other CFI, it's included with the course.
And, your hours soaring don’t count to the required hours and tasks for the PPL. Still need the min 40, solo, XC solo, night, 3 hrs instrument, etc.

I'd echo again the first step is get a 3rd class medical.

After that - I'd be curious what you'd like to do with a private ticket? Looking to go for $100 burgers and sunset flights? Cross country travel? Airplane camping/backcountry?
That'd somewhat dictate where I'd go. For the purpose of just get a PPL, first places that come to mind are most of Florida and the Phoenix area - consistent flying weather year round so a large flying community. I'd personally steer clear of the pilot mills unless you want to burn some extra cash and your intent is to run and gun for an airline job.

Beyond that, I'd look for a place that specializes in what you want to do with your ticket. Some pretty vibrant aviation up in Alaska for backcountry operation - be ready to pay and be there for the relatively short flying season though. Or if travel is your thing, find a place where you might be able to do some training in an airframe you're interested in. I'd also toss in a random plug for an ag aviation flight school - good stick and rudder basics, the chance to learn tailwheel, and a good foundation for anything you might like to do. I've heard good things about Riggin in SD.
Great tips; thanks. Definitely will explore the medical aspect. Being a pragmatist, if I find I can't qualify medically, then there's no reason to go any further.
I'm too old to pursue a career as a pilot. My goal is personal travel. For fun and practicality. Shrink the country a little; be able to make a weekend trip to visit friends or family where it would be impractical by car. When conditions permit, of course. I'm not naive about the wide array of circumstances that can nix such plans. Backcountry adventures are also very appealing. Not so much the $100 hamburger. Also just the general thrill of flying, but that part is secondary to the practical benefits.
I don't have a lot of money, but neither do I have a lot of expenses. I'm content to live very modestly in terms of home, automobile, etc. Nobody dependent upon me (other than the dogs.) I'd rather spend my money on flying than any of that "normal" stuff.
I won't be looking at densely populated areas or otherwise costly places to live. I like it rural and cheap. SD sounds great, actually. I worked in Wyoming for a while, and I loved it. I could even envision myself becoming a nomad, living in a camper and being free to move about.
I figured somebody would mention Alaska. Seems like that would offer possibilities being as how personal aviation is more prevalent. I could see myself possibly living there for a time.
 
I would stay away from the "puppy mills." Those places that recycle students as instructors and churn out "pilots."

I like your idea of starting with gliders. There is a place in Parkersburg, WV that does winch tows. But even if you only do aerotows, you will be a better stick and rudder pilot.

If you really want to cement the stick and rudder skills, do your initial training, through solo, in a tailwheel aircraft.

I agree that flying more often is better 3 - 5 times per week is better than once a week. More than 1.3 - 1.5 hours in air per lesson is too much in the early portion of your training. You will just overload your brain.

There is a reason that the US military training bases are where they are. Due to more good weather. Good for the VFR portion of training, not as good for instrument training.
Definitely don't want to overload my brain.
 
HEG is an uncontrolled airport in the greater Jacksonville area. There is a glider club based there. North Florida Soaring Society I think. It’s a good group of people and you could probably get an intro flight with them to see if that’s the right path for you. I know they have some two seater gliders.
Thanks. I'll definitely check into that!
 
As someone who owns more airplanes than common sense, I will say that buying your own airplane is the most convenient, easiest and cheapest way to get experience.

I’ve owned skippers, 150’s, and other little airplanes that while not fast, at 5/6 gallons per hour, are certainly economical. I’ve also owned turbo twins and other big bore engine planes - but they’re not nearly as economical.

There’s what I consider the ridiculous route- $90k for 230 hours flight time at Sling Pilot Academy which gets you several ratings but you’re still paying monster money to fly and you don’t even have a plane at the end of it.

A piper Apache or even a twin Comanche will get you twin time for 14-16gph - even at California fuel costs, you’re still at $100 not including insurance, oil, and tiedowns. Not always easy to find but doable.
 
I might be tempted to say the "Space" part is not aerodynamic, while the "Aeronautics" part is. Is rocketry and space flight "Aviation"? Maybe not, but it is still aerodynamic. As an engineering student my aerodynamics class did a lab project predicting drag and its effect on trajectory of model rockets. At one point the professor looked into our collective puzzled eyes and reminded us "This is why they call it 'rocket science', folks!"
 
As someone who owns more airplanes than common sense, I will say that buying your own airplane is the most convenient, easiest and cheapest way to get experience.

I’ve owned skippers, 150’s, and other little airplanes that while not fast, at 5/6 gallons per hour, are certainly economical. I’ve also owned turbo twins and other big bore engine planes - but they’re not nearly as economical.

There’s what I consider the ridiculous route- $90k for 230 hours flight time at Sling Pilot Academy which gets you several ratings but you’re still paying monster money to fly and you don’t even have a plane at the end of it.

A piper Apache or even a twin Comanche will get you twin time for 14-16gph - even at California fuel costs, you’re still at $100 not including insurance, oil, and tiedowns. Not always easy to find but doable.
I really like that idea. I've heard of people buying an airplane to train in. Makes sense, if you can afford it.
 
Not entirely true, but more true than it used to be. Prior to the rule changes is the 90's. My friend transitioned to Airplane Single Engine Land with less than 10 hours in a power airplane, a tailwheel (Cessna 120) at that.

Cross country time, done in Glider.
Tower/ATC, done in glider
I don't think there was any time requirement for Instrument time, I think I have like .7 hrs of instrument training on my log book when I took my PP Check ride.
Only thing he really need to do in the airplane was the night training.

Funny story when he took his Airplane checkride, After the emergency procedure (simulated power Failure) the examiner said I think that was the 1st time you relaxed during the checkride. My friend responded with, see that line in the field I picked to land in, That is the wheel track from where I landed my glider there last week.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
And, your hours soaring don’t count to the required hours and tasks for the PPL. Still need the min 40, solo, XC solo, night, 3 hrs instrument, etc.

Current rules say 40 hours flying time, Category/Class not specified. 20 hours dual and 10 hours solo, also not specified as Category/Class. But further in, it does state 10 hour solo in ASEL, including the controlled field and solo XC.

3 hour XC training, 3 hours night and 3 hour test prep must be in an ASEL.

§ 61.109 Aeronautical experience.​


(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (k) of this section, a person who applies for a private pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.107(b)(1) of this part, and the training must include at least—
(1) 3 hours of cross-country flight training in a single-engine airplane;
(2) Except as provided in § 61.110 of this part, 3 hours of night flight training in a single-engine airplane that includes—
(i) One cross-country flight of over 100 nautical miles total distance; and
(ii) 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport.
(3) 3 hours of flight training in a single-engine airplane on the control and maneuvering of an airplane solely by reference to instruments, including straight and level flight, constant airspeed climbs and descents, turns to a heading, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, radio communications, and the use of navigation systems/facilities and radar services appropriate to instrument flight;
(4) 3 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor in a single-engine airplane in preparation for the practical test, which must have been performed within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test; and
(5) 10 hours of solo flight time in a single-engine airplane, consisting of at least—
(i) 5 hours of solo cross-country time;
(ii) One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and
(iii) Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
 
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