Uber tipping?

Rgbeard said:
That said, they're doing Uber because either:

  • They have no other marketable skill set (sad), and it's an alternative to unemployment
  • They are semi-retired or retired, and their spouse wants them out of the house
  • They're a cab driver that crossed-over because the cab companies are hurting
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  • Around here, I think there are many first generation immigrants trying to make a go of it in their new country.
 
I tip generally because I care somewhat about those that are trying to make a living. I've been there....as well as my kids, friends, their friends, relatives, and so on. We all start small and learn our lessons as we grow (well, some don't).

If they do a crappy job, I don't tip at all, and pay the base bill only.
If they do a great job, I tip pretty good.
If I know them (fairly rare), I tip really good...unless they just drop the ball totally, then I tell them how to improve.
 
To add to the appreciation factor you might consider tipping in cash as opposed to having it processed through Uber. For several months I was having to use Uber for an r/t ride from the destination airport twice a week. Ride was close to 20 bucks and I always gave a $5 tip in cash. I found the vast majority of the drivers to be pleasant and conscientious, generally as a 2nd job in off time and driving nice, clean vehicles..This was in Wesley Chapel so it might have to do with the area. I had only done one other Uber trip out of Orlando Exec and that driver was a recent immigrant who was an Argentine military pilot.
 
See this is the thing, I don’t begrudge these people some better pay I just don’t enjoy the whole deciding how much extra to give part. I’d rather the price just be 20% higher and pay what I pay. It seems more fair and a lot simpler than all this tipping nonsense.

I’m the same way with most things, I don’t like to haggle or play games on stuff the price is the price take it or leave it.

I know the world isn’t going to change just because I think that’s the way things ought to work but if y’all just did what I say it would work a lot better. ;)
 
I rarely tip Uber drivers. 15% of my $10 fair is a buck and half. Not worth my time to process it, and isn't going to change the drivers life.

Now, if they put on an Auto-add tip % thing I might do it. But as said before, just auto include it and up the fee charged.
 
cowman said:
See this is the thing, I don’t begrudge these people some better pay I just don’t enjoy the whole deciding how much extra to give part. I’d rather the price just be 20% higher and pay what I pay. It seems more fair and a lot simpler than all this tipping nonsense.

I’m the same way with most things, I don’t like to haggle or play games on stuff the price is the price take it or leave it.

I know the world isn’t going to change just because I think that’s the way things ought to work but if y’all just did what I say it would work a lot better. ;)
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I am vehemently against customary tipping. Tipping should be reserved for truly outstanding service going above and beyond normal professional behavior. When it becomes customary/socially mandatory it is an abomination I have no interest in participating in.
 
Jim K said:
A brand new, no option Ford Fiesta like the one I rode in, can be bought for under $14000 (which surprised me...I would've guessed at least 20). For easy math, if it lasts 140000 miles before being scrapped (and i bet it would do double that if maintained), that's 10¢ /mile. Maintenance over that time...2¢ should be close, 30 MPG at $3= 10¢. Insurance, misc., lets add 3¢ to get us to a nice round 25¢/mile.

My trip was a bit under $9 for maybe 5 miles. Assume he had to drive 5 miles to get to me, total time 15min. Uber takes $3, gives him $6. I kicked in an extra dollar. 4 trips like that/hour= $28 for 40 miles=70¢/mile.

so driver gets paid 45¢/mile, 40 miles/hour= $18/hour. $14 without the tips. This ignores the financing/opportunity cost of the money, which would add another nickel or so, but I'm assuming he'd have a car anyway. Taxes should be nil as the standard mileage rate is nearly 2x the actual costs. For my driver, a college kids with a cheap car and an hour or two to kill between classes, I can see it. Wouldn't take much more car to eat any profit, though.

This is why it seems like a grey area to me. The waitress I tipped 20% at lunch probably makes $3-4 /hour before tips, and is working a lot harder than the uber driver.
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If you try REAL hard with an econobox you can make the numbers work on some trips. It’s also highly dependent on density of drivers and even some local laws.

No matter what Uber and Lyft say about their “insurance” programs, in Colorado the insurers say you must have the intermediate level “almost commercial” insurance to drive for a ride share, or you are uncovered. And the ride shares also say you are uncovered by their insurance any time you are not with a customer or responding to the app. This means you take a break and head three blocks away to the 7-11 for coffee... if you trusted either your personal insurer or the ride share, you’re SOL. You are NOT covered at all during any little driving interludes.

The personal insurer will say you were working. The ride share insurer will say you were not on a pick up or with a customer and you were not insured at the time.

YMMV literally in your area depending on what your insurance commissioners have decided to force the insurance companies to do. Anyway...

Besides needing to double that insurance cost...

Mr Money Moustache (for whatever you think of him, and for me, it’s not much) actually documented his time as a driver. He did choose to use a slightly more expensive vehicle, electric because — well whatever, he lives in the Boulder zone — and literally calculated the ROI on all trips he was “assigned” by the app throughout the process.

What he found was the app will, of course, push you to accept trips that don’t make money. And he would refuse them. The app would start pushing. The company would send messages threatening him. And supervisors and managers would start saying he would be terminated as a driver if he didn’t go get those customers because “he was closest”... and we are all on the great big family team wanting our company to be successful and not have those poor customers wait for a driver further away, now would we?

Now he was doing it as an experiment and didn’t need the job or the money, so his response was generally to tell them to stuff it. He was quitting eventually anyway. But the real world experience he documented shows the pressure drivers are put under to accept non-profitable work. And many don’t bother calculating it.

So... all trips are not created equal. And there’s a lot of internal pressure to take them. Anytime there’s a weak number of drivers and you’re logged in and closest to a person wanting a ride, watch out. You don’t get paid if you pick them up and drive an hour out of your way and no fares coming back the other direction.

For slightly more anecdotal evidence, there’s whole forums dedicated to discussions of the “secrets” of Uber and Lyft drivers who actually make money. They talk about where to be, when, to both maximize the profits and also trick the app into thinking no drivers are there, so the higher prices kick in. Like anything with variable income, both companies have accidentally turned messing with their algorithms into game theory for the small sub-set of drivers who pay attention. That can apparently be quite lucrative.

Those same forums will discuss how to truly track P&L and some sun-set of their drivers do it AND share it. It’s not high.

Do they make more than a waitress? Probably. No argument there. Do they always know when they are? Doubtful.

The girl that drove me a long ass way into the country into no cell coverage and down a dirt road didn’t make anything I’m sure, in her brand new VW. Just the alignment it probably needed sooner after the washboards wiped out the profit from the trip and the large tip. I told her she could leave me at the gas station over a mile from home. She declined. I tipped enough to pay for about 1/3 of the alignment with a coupon. LOL. What’cha gonna do? I offered. We can’t even summon either company out here.

Since then, I’ve gotten a list of three who drive for these companies and LIVE out here and they’ll take a fare from a cell phone call if they’re at home. I feel less bad about that. They’re driving out here anyway ... hopefully they stop and get their groceries or something while they’re in town that they needed anyway.

I’m also not going to feel too bad when I have to sue them personally if we whack a deer out here and it causes me some sort of permanent injury or hospitalization. I suspect the settlement from the ride share won’t cover it. Not a pleasant thought suing the neighbor who’s just trying to get by, or whatever, but ... if it comes to that... zero effs given as they say. The $10/hr they were making won’t seem worth it then, unfortunately. Just an ambulance ride will blow right through the top of the local cap on small claims court, even if everything turns out okay.

I should note that my need for this out here has been once in six years, so I’m not exactly putting these folks at any particularly large risk. They’re risking far more in city traffic anyway.

It’s a very risky job without the add on insurance around here. And that will suck the profit margin down to where it’s not going to be great money.

The really wild one is where either company will put you in touch with a company that will lease you the car by the day. Nobody on any fiscal forum has anything nice to say about those. Almost the equivalent payday lenders, those. Not good. Sucker a lot of really poor people into driving for pennies.
 
Ravioli said:
My what? Why am I being "scored" on buying taxi services?
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Every ride, just like you score the driver, the driver is scoring you. (Typically if there are no issues, it will be 5 stars.)

Because there are lot of riders scams and tricks they can use to get out of paying. So the driver rates you, and then other drivers see that and can choose to not accept your ride request next time.
 
On a recent business trip, I took a taxi from the airport to the hotel. It was a clapped-out, ratty, first generation Prius, shocks completely gone, radio blaring some sort of Indian folk music, loudly, while talking on his Bluetooth headset in Hindi (or something similar) the entire trip. For this privilege I was charged (if I remember right) $23, tip not included.

On the trip back I ordered an Uber for the very first time. I got a clean, late model car with a driver who showed up on time, paid attention to his driving, didn't yack on the phone, and had the radio either off or quiet. I pad a little over half what the cab ride cost. I tipped.

I haven't taken a taxi since. I have asked every Uber driver how he likes driving for Uber, how much money he makes doing it, etc. Most are doing it part time. One guy said he'd drive enough on the weekend to make a couple hundred bucks, then knock off. Doesn't seem like a bad gig if you've got the time and nothing better to do. I might think about doing it myself once in a while, but the Mercedes isn't new enough to qualify as a "black" ride, and I'm not going to drive the F150.
 
I'm probably the only person on here who has driven Uber, so here's my take:

Like many jobs, it is the promise of being lucrative. When I did it on and off for a few months back in early 2016, Uber would run special promotions with bonuses that would make it more worthwhile. But for the most part, the surges were a mirage. The biggest surge I ever got paid was 1.5 times the regular rate. The app would depict some amazing 3x surge area, and of course every available driver would show up chasing the surge, which disappears by the time they arrive.

I never once got a tip as a driver, but I didn't do it very long and well before tipping was an option.

I did it not because I needed money (good thing, there's not much to be made) but because I always had this fantasy of driving a cab (must have watched too much Taxi cab confessions, lol) and had a suitably fully depreciated car to use.

While I had a few decent passengers, I did learn how incredibly entitled people are. Too many stories in a short period of time, and was what ultimately made my decision to ditch the gig. My experience further solidified my belief that flightsharing would be an absolute disaster in practice.
 
Ravioli said:
I rarely tip Uber drivers. 15% of my $10 fair is a buck and half. Not worth my time to process it, and isn't going to change the drivers life.

Now, if they put on an Auto-add tip % thing I might do it. But as said before, just auto include it and up the fee charged.
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Average Uber driver trips per day is 7.5 (according to Google search)

$1.50 x 7.5 rides a day = $11.25
$11.25 x 5 days a week = $56.25
$56.25 x 4 weeks = $225/month

Not life changing, but likely means something to those at low wages to begin with. Although it may be a bag of weed lol.

My girlfriends daughter drove for a while. She was doing multiple trips and working up to 7 days a week. She said it really hurts on days when people don't tip much or at all.

Personally, I think a business should only be run if they can be sustainable, while providing employees a decent living.

But, the money it takes to achieve that, comes from somewhere in some form... whether it's higher prices for the service, or tipping.... or the ol' gov't subsidies lol.
 
Ravioli said:
I rarely tip Uber drivers. 15% of my $10 fair is a buck and half. Not worth my time to process it, and isn't going to change the drivers life.

Now, if they put on an Auto-add tip % thing I might do it. But as said before, just auto include it and up the fee charged.
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Haven't updated your app in a while? The 10/15/20 % tip comes up at the same time as the driver rating, right after the ride ends.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Personally, I think a business should only be run if they can be sustainable, while providing employees a decent living.
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So... close half of the flight schools with fleets on leaseback who pay CFIs just enough to eat Ramen with no bennies until they hire on at a regional? LOL LOL LOL
 
DaleB said:
On a recent business trip, I took a taxi from the airport to the hotel. It was a clapped-out, ratty, first generation Prius, shocks completely gone, radio blaring some sort of Indian folk music, loudly, while talking on his Bluetooth headset in Hindi (or something similar) the entire trip. For this privilege I was charged (if I remember right) $23, tip not included.

On the trip back I ordered an Uber for the very first time. I got a clean, late model car with a driver who showed up on time, paid attention to his driving, didn't yack on the phone, and had the radio either off or quiet. I pad a little over half what the cab ride cost. I tipped.

I haven't taken a taxi since. I have asked every Uber driver how he likes driving for Uber, how much money he makes doing it, etc. Most are doing it part time. One guy said he'd drive enough on the weekend to make a couple hundred bucks, then knock off. Doesn't seem like a bad gig if you've got the time and nothing better to do. I might think about doing it myself once in a while, but the Mercedes isn't new enough to qualify as a "black" ride, and I'm not going to drive the F150.
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Heh. I think you just adequately described the difference between a business that has to make a profit and one that doesn’t and passes fleet losses on to their drivers who are mostly, hobbyists.

I have to say for full disclosure that I *really* looked into driving for either one of them a couple of years ago before the health junk, because Karen is out at rehearsals many nights a week, and the idea of driving nice folks like yourself around to where they needed to go and making a few bucks, sounds “romantic” in the tech / gig economy world.

After digging, I found the drivers like yours don’t last too long once they realize they’re losing money on the deal, but there’s always fresh meat for the mill. They often dropped before that because... not everyone is as nice as you, and all of us here, of course. Except the bad tippers. LOL.

I also realized I’d make a lot more delivering pizzas in the Subaru. LOL. But that was a “job” and wasn’t just fire up an app and do it after a small amount of hoop jumping. Turn it on when you want and off when you don’t.

Although food delivery is certainly headed that way. Talked to a DoorDash guy who was picking up some chicken wings. He said the amount of time allowed and such is decent. I haven’t looked at their requirements.

Mostly ‘cause, more driving really isn’t in my “greedy” plans to stash more money for retirement anymore... on nights when Karen is out and the dogs could sleep for a few hours and not care if I was home or not.

Hahaha. Oh well.
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. I think you just adequately described the difference between a business that has to make a profit and one that doesn’t and passes fleet losses on to their drivers who are mostly, hobbyists.
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There's a point to be missed, here.

Let's compare this to, say, streaming TV services. A while ago, you could switch from your cable provider to a streaming service and save a TON of money -- and not get treated like crap. Now you end up paying a little less, but still don't get treated like crap. In a couple of years, I suspect you won't save much at all -- you just won't get treated like crap.

I'd happily pay taxi cab rates for Uber treatment. I'm sure Uber knows this, and will adjust their rates (and driver compensation) upward as they drive more business away from taxis.
 
I tip in "customary" situations because I know the employees will be depending on it. But I also know from experience that in "repeat" service situations like local bars and restaurants, if the staff notice that you look after them particularly well, they will look after you (I suspect sometimes to the detriment of the walk-ins and tight-wads).

To the OP's specific situation: if I have evidently just extricated myself from a $100k toy that costs $3 a minute to play with, the Uber driver would probably think me a bit of an a-hole if I declined to toss a buck on the fare. Consider it investing a little in the image of GA.

Congrats on knocking out the long XC.
 
flyingron said:
Haven't updated your app in a while? The 10/15/20 % tip comes up at the same time as the driver rating, right after the ride ends.
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But then it comes through as two transactions on my credit card, requiring me to process it twice in my bindess expense system.
 
DaleB said:
There's a point to be missed, here.

Let's compare this to, say, streaming TV services. A while ago, you could switch from your cable provider to a streaming service and save a TON of money -- and not get treated like crap. Now you end up paying a little less, but still don't get treated like crap. In a couple of years, I suspect you won't save much at all -- you just won't get treated like crap.

I'd happily pay taxi cab rates for Uber treatment. I'm sure Uber knows this, and will adjust their rates (and driver compensation) upward as they drive more business away from taxis.
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You clearly haven’t renewed your streaming lately. LOL.

We had to get away from DirecTV NOW and retreat to PlayStation Vue, both of whom are losing content right and left but PS Vue much slower. Rates for both are now nearly equal to cable and slightly lower than satellite after all discounts and follow on years are counted. In fact, within $5/mo. You’re likely grandfathered with a loss/leader deal now if you’ve been with them for a while. :)

Loss-leaders by definition have to make it up somewhere or go under. Uber and Lyft make it up depreciating their driver’s vehicles as their fleet. As long as the drivers don’t notice or care, they’ll be competitive. But what you predicted, lower cost and higher service, can’t happen without the illusion that their drivers make decent money.

The good news is, like I said, there’s always new meet for the grinder. You can’t have taxi rates for better service without someone eating the cost. They’ve got their staff willing to take that loss, and probably Wall Street willing to take it too, like most tech startups. Treating them as tech instead of a transportation company will bite investors eventually. The cab companies have apps now... competitive advantage is retreating slowly.

In the gig economy nobody works for you for 20 years. They hop from gig to gig hoping they’ll find decent bennies and pay. Lots of hobbyists.

When you someday hear Uber’s PR people saying they’re charging significantly above the old dead cabs, because they “provide a better customer experience” you’ll know they made it to stable profitable status for their employees and them. :)
 
To give it an aviation spin...

“I will happily pay Cessna rental prices for a Cirrus.”

So will everyone.

But someone is taking it in the shorts if that’s the deal you found. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. I think you just adequately described the difference between a business that has to make a profit and one that doesn’t and passes fleet losses on to their drivers who are mostly, hobbyists.
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Actually, I think you described the difference between a "regulated" business and the free market. Taxis have a government regulated monopoly that limits supply and in theory outlaws competition. That's why cabs are generally ratted out, dirty and provide lousy service. Cab driving is no economic wonderland for drivers. In NYC, medallion holders (you want to rail against fat cats - these are your guys) lease out cabs to drivers. The drivers keep what they get in fares - so they have paid $100 for the privilege of driving the POS cab that the medallion owner has 0 incentive to maintain. So they need to get $100 in fares just to break even. (I made up the numbers, not sure what the actual is - but conceptually right).

One number I do have a pretty good idea of is an NYC medallion sold for about $1.5million prior to Uber, they go for about $400k now. I have zero sympathy for their losses. Whether or not there's enough $$ in driving an Uber to make a living is a different question, but it's a way better business model than a quasi government licensure/rent seeking POS.

I feel better now :)
 
Hang 4 said:
Actually, I think you described the difference between a "regulated" business and the free market. Taxis have a government regulated monopoly that limits supply and in theory outlaws competition. That's why cabs are generally ratted out, dirty and provide lousy service. Cab driving is no economic wonderland for drivers. In NYC, medallion holders (you want to rail against fat cats - these are your guys) lease out cabs to drivers. The drivers keep what they get in fares - so they have paid $100 for the privilege of driving the POS cab that the medallion owner has 0 incentive to maintain. So they need to get $100 in fares just to break even. (I made up the numbers, not sure what the actual is - but conceptually right).

One number I do have a pretty good idea of is an NYC medallion sold for about $1.5million prior to Uber, they go for about $400k now. I have zero sympathy for their losses. Whether or not there's enough $$ in driving an Uber to make a living is a different question, but it's a way better business model than a quasi government licensure/rent seeking POS.

I feel better now :)
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The medallion thing is a non-sequitur in most cities. The difficulty starting a new cab company or any transportation company here is filling out a form to start a business.

NYC is not the entire country. A few other cities heavily regulate cabs, but not the majority of them by a long shot.

And hate to tell ya, but after these lawsuits about rape finish up, the insurers are going to want as much “regulation” of the ride shares as government. In fact, after enough overall lawsuits for injuries, deaths, whatever... the lawyers will have their hooks into the ride shares and they’ll probably beg for “government oversight” with limited liability included.

It’ll happen. Just give it time.

In the meanwhile we can all enjoy the loss leader business model and pretend it’s possible to operate large fleets cheaper... if only they’re owned by hobbyists. LOL.

I ain’t saying I don’t like riding in someone else’s car. I’m just saying the airline ticket isn’t getting any cheaper, without the pilot owning the airplane... and operating at a loss. :)
 
Prior to tipping in the app, I only tipped (cash) when the driver went the extra mile (helped with heavy bags, etc). Uber initially heavily advertised the no tip thing. They added the app tips around the same time as they started getting more greedy with the percentage of the fare and also reducing fares. I always leave a tip now, because of the issues with Uber and Lyft taking so much, unless the driver is garbage. I usually estimate the amount of gas used and tip based on that, but not less than $2.

George Mohr said:
I'm not sure why the pushback on the "contractor" status of drivers. It seems to me they set their own hours, use their own equipment, and have no direct oversight. They don't exhibit the "care, custody, and control" standard of employees.

It does seem like uber takes too much of their rate, particularly in surge scenarios. But hell I'm no expert!

-G
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It is the level of control asserted over the drivers, as well as the amount taken.

Palmpilot said:
If you tip through the app, does the company take a percentage of the tip?
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They don't.

Flocker said:
I'd be curious to see if tipping impacts your rider score...
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It doesn't. I believe the tip isn't sent to the driver till an hour after you close out your trip, while the driver has to close out your trip immediately to move on.
 
I tip them. Usually well. Their cars are always clean. I’m cities they are usually dressed nice.
Uber is a big plus for me. I hate having to pull out money and hand it over. I don’t like carrying cash. I really don’t like handing a card to some goofy cab driver. So much easier to push a button. A couple of bucks to the driver is cheap IMO for better service then a cab plus the fares are usually cheaper then a cab anyway.
 
i speak to every Uber driver about number of rides, compensation, etc. They are very honest, and in my opinion do not fully understand how little they are paid. However, many are retired or semi retired, and they do it to meet people, and make a little extra money. I look forward to the day when Uber is replaced by a less expensive platform that provides the drivers more money. But it certainly is a voluntary arrangement for the drivers.

I always tip, and much more so in areas with very little Uber coverage. In those fringe areas, you are lucky to find a driver sometimes, and I want to make it worth their while.
 
I was raised and still live in NY I tip all the time. Many times well above the standard tip rate. I have s good job and make money that I can spare a few bucks to pass onto other people that are usually doing crap jobs, have to deal with a hole customers all day, so why not.

Unless if the service is absolutely, then I might only do 10%.
 
steingar said:
I was happy to tip them. Uber is the best thing for pilots since GPS navigation.
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This is SO correct! I have found it is greatly easier and more convenient to use my airplane for travel - business and personal - since the increasing availability of Uber service in the majority of towns in the country. Don't talk to me about "courtesy cars" - they are mostly not available and in various states of disrepair.

Uber goes with GA perfectly.
 
I always tip without question. I do think a better system would be well paid employees with no tipping... but till we are in that world I’m always gunna tip...

I had to get a 2.5 hour Lyft ride when I bought my plane. I was so thankful he was willing to take me that far as they don’t get paid for the return drive I tipped him $80.,. Worth every penny to bring Shirley home...
 
Jim K said:
Did my long solo xc yesterday, and met my brother for lunch. The fbo crew car was out, so I downloaded uber and it worked out well. In googling uber vs lyft, I came across all kinds of articles about how if you don't tip your uber driver, you're a jerk. Apparently they make like $10 an hour, which isn't terrible for a set your own hours, sit on your butt in the a/c side job, but I wouldn't do it. Driver was a friendly young guy, we had a nice chat, so I did add a tip. Between that, the food, gas, and airplane, was about a $450 burger.

Question is: do you tip when you take an uber? How much?
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I'm not a heavy user of Lyft, but when I have the drivers have always been great. So I have always added a good tip. They don't get paid a great deal imo.
 
N1120A said:
Uber initially heavily advertised the no tip thing. They added the app tips around the same time as they started getting more greedy with the percentage of the fare and also reducing fares.
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Technically there’s little evidence they “increased” anything but were taking it all along. Before they went public they didn’t have to give a number and if they did, it didn’t have to be accurate because there was no way to mathematically fact check them.

Now they’re public and they decided to bump their official number up that they publish quite a bit, but the way they publish their numbers (good old GAAP, giving companies a way to hide from investors what they’re really doing, while pretending it made us all more informed hahaha) there’s still no way to prove or disprove it.

Jalopnik had an article recently showing that at least a small subset of drivers had 35% or more taken. Left was higher at 38% as I recall. I’ll like to the businessinsider article about the Jalopnik article because it’s careful to mention the possible bias at the end. That and by God Jalopnik doesn’t deserve even a single click for ads until they fix their damn website so the ads don’t freeze iOS mobile browsers solid while trying to scroll their articles. Gah.

https://www.businessinsider.com/uber-and-lyft-take-rates-higher-than-admit-jalopnik-2019-8

Cluemeister said:
I look forward to the day when Uber is replaced by a less expensive platform that provides the drivers more money.
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Cant happen unless they stay private. Wall Street wants that magic tech growth. They think these are tech companies and not trucking companies. They’ll rip a trucking company or shipping/cargo company down to fractions of pennies per mile to see if they have any value, but they’ll give a tech company a total pass on it.

At least for a while.

We’ll see how many of these lawsuits win... Wall Street isn’t going to like that.

I’m sure the execs will eventually be “leaving to pursue other interests and spend more time with family”...

Wait, you told us employees we were all their family! ;)
 
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