Uber tipping?

Holy crap. People really like to debate.

Yeah. I tip if the service was worthy of showing appreciation and it usually is.

Even with the tip added in, the value of the service almost always greatly outweighs it's cost.
 
Holy crap. People really like to debate.

People on *discussion* websites, yes.

It’s called a self-selecting group bias.

There are places that just publish things and don’t solicit commentary on the web, but they’re getting fewer and further between.

Although there is a (correct IMHO) trend away from having forums and comments on business websites, because surprise surprise, it’s unmanageable.

Now if we can all help kill off advertising on sites that allow comments on the ads, we will have all done a great service to mankind. Making the ad comments completely unmanageable is the goal now.

A few companies have decided not to manage the comments about them, but to hire people to snark at competitors online in social media.

One has to wonder how long those idiots will have jobs. Funny and entertaining, yes. But they don’t add a single penny to the company’s bottom line.
 
Has anyone ever had an Uber driver so bad that they asked to be dropped off immediately somewhere else? We almost did that on Friday night. Worst driver ever!

Needless to say... no tip.
 
Has anyone ever had an Uber driver so bad that they asked to be dropped off immediately somewhere else? We almost did that on Friday night. Worst driver ever!

Needless to say... no tip.
A few.

1) Transmission was about to blow up. Couldn't accelerate without giving us whiplash
2) Consistently driving with one wheel on or over the lane dividing line. The entire trip we used two lanes
3) Crossed a river by missing an exit due to un-necessarily aggressive driving. Then missed the exit after re-crossing the river.... Going fast cost me more than 1/2 hour sitting in the car
4) Not shutting up even when it's obvious I don't want to talk - even when I say it outright. I'm working on my phone dealing with business via email and they won't stop talking.

Again, you shouldn't withhold the tip for bad service according to logic being told to me here. Tips aren't rewards for providing extra service, they are required for these poor people to live.
 
Has anyone ever had an Uber driver so bad that they asked to be dropped off immediately somewhere else? We almost did that on Friday night. Worst driver ever!

Needless to say... no tip.

This week. Young kid fresh from Somalia. Backed out into a collector road across two lanes of traffic.
 
Has anyone ever had an Uber driver so bad that they asked to be dropped off immediately somewhere else? We almost did that on Friday night. Worst driver ever!

Needless to say... no tip.
You can flag a bad driver in the app. The companies seem to be pretty efficient at weeding out bad drivers if more than one person complains.
 
Again, you shouldn't withhold the tip for bad service according to logic being told to me here. Tips aren't rewards for providing extra service, they are required for these poor people to live.

I don't think that's what's been said here...not even close. Tips are rewards for providing good service, and Uber drivers, servers, etc. should be rewarded when they have provided good service. My point in telling the story above about haggling in Mexico is that most of us, as pilots who own or rent planes and pay $5-6 a gallon for avgas, can afford to tip, and should remember that when dealing with service employees who provide good service. Bad service...nada.
 
I don't think that's what's been said here...not even close. Tips are rewards for providing good service, and Uber drivers, servers, etc. should be rewarded when they have provided good service. My point in telling the story above about haggling in Mexico is that most of us, as pilots who own or rent planes and pay $5-6 a gallon for avgas, can afford to tip, and should remember that when dealing with service employees who provide good service. Bad service...nada.
Ok. But I disagree. If they don't NEED the money, then I shouldn't have to tip unless it's unusual service.
 
Ok. But I disagree. If they don't NEED the money, then I shouldn't have to tip unless it's unusual service.

And you know whether they do or don't NEED the money because....?
 
And you know whether they do or don't NEED the money because....?
That's my point exactly. I shouldn't have to guess at the socio-economic situation my driver is in when I take an Uber ride.
 
Ok. But I disagree. If they don't NEED the money, then I shouldn't have to tip unless it's unusual service.

So apply brain. How does one determine need. Well start with what you know the job pays, subtract the massive depreciation hit they’re taking, and you can’t really find a set of numbers that shows they don’t need the tips.

That’s as close as you’re going to get to an objective analysis of “need” without asking them for their household budget. It’s a dumb way to determine what you’ll pay for a service.

Hey you have a day job and a nice house. So will you teach me to fly for free? You don’t NEED the money.

LOL. Need as a basis for what you pay. That’s called communism isn’t it? Hahaha. Kidding.

But seriously. Just pay what a nice ride in a nice clean almost new car would cost if it weren’t for a rideshare company. Covering costs of commercial insurance, all of it.

You know what a crappy cab ride used to cost. Basic business common sense tells us that it has to be higher than that. If you’re paying less than the crappy old cab, someone’s getting screwed.

In the case of the ride shares we already know by simple analysis that it’s the driver via massive depreciation. So we know who to pay extra to.

Not that hard to figure out. Limos cost more than cabs. Nice clean cars fall somewhere in between. Uber and Lyft didn’t create some magic that lowers the cost of individual vehicle transportation. They sometimes give the illusion of it by riding the back of their driver’s capital expenditure losses.
 
S

Not that hard to figure out. Limos cost more than cabs. Nice clean cars fall somewhere in between. Uber and Lyft didn’t create some magic that lowers the cost of individual vehicle transportation. They sometimes give the illusion of it by riding the back of their driver’s capital expenditure losses.

Well, I don't necessarily agree that they didn't lower individual vehicle costs. Historically, taxis were inefficient and required rather high costs of entry (medallions).
 
You know what a crappy cab ride used to cost. Basic business common sense tells us that it has to be higher than that. If you’re paying less than the crappy old cab, someone’s getting screwed.
Right. That someone is the city government, who charge something like $100k per year for a medallion in some cities.

Not that hard to figure out. Limos cost more than cabs. Nice clean cars fall somewhere in between. Uber and Lyft didn’t create some magic that lowers the cost of individual vehicle transportation. They sometimes give the illusion of it by riding the back of their driver’s capital expenditure losses.
See above. Uber and Lyft actually did create a magic: tax avoidance!
 
Right. That someone is the city government, who charge something like $100k per year for a medallion in some cities.

The city doesn't get the 100k. The guy you buy it from does. The city just creates the artificial shortage of taxis that caused the prices for the medallions to go up. You know, because they know better than the market how many cabs the city needs.

DC btw. doesn't have a medallion system. You pay the fee, you take the test and once you have commercial insurance you can go out and seek fares.
 
The city doesn't get the 100k. The guy you buy it from does. The city just creates the artificial shortage of taxis that caused the prices for the medallions to go up.

So how'd that work out for you, Mr. Cohen...? :idea:
 
If they go above and beyond, then tip. If not, then don't. Some Uber drivers are great and deserve it
 
So how'd that work out for you, Mr. Cohen...? :idea:

Yup. A giant morass of corruption based on controlling the lucrative Manhattan market. The mafia looked to NYC government to model the structure of their organization.
 
I was downstairs early for our hotel pickup in Vancouver, BC earlier this month. The limo driver was there so we were talking while waiting for the other pilot to come down.

I commented on how his limo had THREE front license plates. One was the normal plate, a second was a commercial vehicle plate, and I don't remember what he third one was.

He started talking about how they didn't yet allow Uber/Lyft, but were going to soon, and how bad he thought that was.

I asked why he thought rideshare was a bad thing and his reasons revolved around the lack of regulation. Then he went on about what a rip off his government-required commercial driver course was. How they were teaching worthless information and that it was just a government money grab.

But, Uber/Lyft was bad because they didn't have to go through the same thing.
 
I tipped my Uber driver this morning to connect me from Tacoma Amtrak station to Puyallup, WA airport to fetch my plane after some upgrades.

I tipped him 20% for no especial reason other than it was the middle button in the app.

I didn't tip my conductor.

I didn't tip the maintenance shop.

I didn't tip the lineman at the home field after a full serve fuel-up.

There is no rhyme or reason to it all and I dislike the concept. I'd vote for Mr. Pink if he ran for president on a platform of making tips illegal.
 
Well, I don't necessarily agree that they didn't lower individual vehicle costs. Historically, taxis were inefficient and required rather high costs of entry (medallions).

We’ve already covered this. Medallions only affect a small number of cities.

Anywhere else you’re just screwing the driver, willfully knowing you’re getting a better ride than you paid for, knowing how these companies operate.

It’s impossible to get a limo at a (non-medallion) cab rate for a reason. A nice fleet costs MONEY.
 
I didn't tip the lineman at the home field after a full serve fuel-up.

At most FBOs that’s probably a dick move, too.

We’re pilots. Many of us own airplanes and know what things cost.

We also know math.

Ain’t nobody living the high life on ramp worker pay.

But anyway... we’re all typing these posts on devices made by slave labor in China, so who cares, right? Probably wearing clothes made the same way.
 
At most FBOs that’s probably a dick move, too.

We’re pilots. Many of us own airplanes and know what things cost.

We also know math.

Ain’t nobody living the high life on ramp worker pay.

But anyway... we’re all typing these posts on devices made by slave labor in China, so who cares, right? Probably wearing clothes made the same way.

Yeah, this is the exact 'rich dude shaming' that I hate with tip-based compensation.

I have some money. The number of people who might lay claim to it are uncountable. The number of people who provide me token services are legion. I don't see that I owe anyone, much less everyone, a little extra because they have an entry-level job.

Do I need to find service professionals who make more than me, so that I can skip this societal guilt complex? Can I demand that they then tip me?

I have been lucky, but I have also been responsible. I don't know what meth is like. I didn't knock up women all over town. I am educated. I have spent decades continuously honing a skill that is valuable. (too valuable IMHO, but that's the luck again) I haven't lived beyond my means. Others have. Now they have claim on me? pah.

My daily driver is a 2010 Subaru. My house was built before my late grandfather was born. I can afford the plane. I can even afford the extra 20 cents per gallon for the truck service. My 20 cent lavishment got the lineman his minimum wage job by which he is not living a high life -- in the first place. If, upon reflection, he's not grateful, then he can gargle my nuts.

$0.02 + 0%

":D"
 
I tip them because I know their company is operating on the depreciation of their vehicles.

Once they figure out they can’t replace the lost value of the car with what they’re being paid, they won’t drive for a ride share any more.

There’s a business reason cab companies had fleets if half million mile Crown Vics. They weren’t exactly high margin profit makers even at that.

And I’d rather ride in someone’s late model Jetta that the payment is eating them alive, while they think they’re making money — than an old Crown Vic.

None of my cars qualify to drive for a ride share and are all paid off long ago when they did qualify.

Both Uber and Lyft are a scam to make some execs of the “tech” company money in similar ways to a multi-level marketing scheme. Build an app, hand people less money than it takes to operate and depreciate their fleet of other people’s vehicles, claim to cover drivers and passengers with questionable insurance, ignore state laws requiring real commercial insurance... pocket the difference.

Yeah, I’m tipping anyone who hasn’t figured it out yet. My sister is in that crowd, and also will sell you some essential oils for your medical ailments. LOL.
This ... I can’t like this post enough. I always tip uber/lyft
 
Anywhere else you’re just screwing the driver, willfully knowing you’re getting a better ride than you paid for, knowing how these companies operate.
Yeah! Those poor Uber drivers should NOT be forced into this. They should be allowed to quit and take a higher paying job.

Oh wait.
 
It’s good to know for history, but the real thing to know is that they’re likely taking 35% from the driver today, when you’re deciding if you are too cheap to tip today... like some here... LOL.

They’re kinda like JG Wentworth... ha...

“Do you have a late model car that can be depreciated faater? Do you want to turn that depreciation into cash, today? Uber can help with that!”
Maybe you should tip them with a lesson in how badly they're being screwed.
 
Since tipping cab drivers is customary, I don't see the rationale for not doing the same for Uber, etc.

I never knew that some folks consider tipping fuel-truck drivers to be customary. I did tip the one who drove to the airport to fuel the plane when I landed after hours. I also tipped the ones who helped me remove snow from the airplane at no charge.
 
Yeah, this is the exact 'rich dude shaming' that I hate with tip-based compensation.

I have some money. The number of people who might lay claim to it are uncountable. The number of people who provide me token services are legion. I don't see that I owe anyone, much less everyone, a little extra because they have an entry-level job.

Do I need to find service professionals who make more than me, so that I can skip this societal guilt complex? Can I demand that they then tip me?

I have been lucky, but I have also been responsible. I don't know what meth is like. I didn't knock up women all over town. I am educated. I have spent decades continuously honing a skill that is valuable. (too valuable IMHO, but that's the luck again) I haven't lived beyond my means. Others have. Now they have claim on me? pah.

My daily driver is a 2010 Subaru. My house was built before my late grandfather was born. I can afford the plane. I can even afford the extra 20 cents per gallon for the truck service. My 20 cent lavishment got the lineman his minimum wage job by which he is not living a high life -- in the first place. If, upon reflection, he's not grateful, then he can gargle my nuts.

$0.02 + 0%

":D"

No guilt here. I said you can do the math and decide for yourself. All the rationalization above may make you sleep better at night. If you have any guilt it’s all your own, from knowing your own heart and decisions towards others.

Whining about a societal norm that takes ten seconds to do the math is probably part of that. If you don’t want to tip, don’t tip. It’s the public whining about it that shows something different. A brain working overtime (ha!) to explain away why not.

I love the meth story. Yep every line guy is a meth head. And the “number of people” being uncountable. No, it’s exactly the number of people who work for you. If you don’t use their service they don’t ask. Duh.

They don’t ask anyway, it’s a free will additional payment out of your own gratitude for what they did for you. If you feel no gratitude for the service, fine.

My daily driver Subaru is ten years older than yours, so nothing impressive there.

And yes, the person receiving the gratitude usually does feel grateful for the job and the tips.

Yeah! Those poor Uber drivers should NOT be forced into this. They should be allowed to quit and take a higher paying job.

Oh wait.

Definitely recommended. These companies are ripping them off to the tune of something like $5000-$10000 a year in depreciation depending on vehicle type, age, and miles driven. No argument there.

The framework for my answer was that most people here WANT Uber and Lyft to survive. They can, but they’ll slowly be regulated (background checks after the rape lawsuits finish up and they lose) and the bare minimum stuff that cabs have to do (commercial insurance) will become the norm as the market revolts against the bad side of ride sharing that’s kinda hidden by the artificially lower cost and nicer fleet.

(Do I think the regulations will accomplish what they say they will? Nope. But public opinion will eventually require them.)

It’s the same problem at airlines. Everybody wants to fly all the way across the country in comfort, for $99. Sure, come on in, we’ve places the seats so close together your knees will be in your nose the entire flight. When we get really desperate we’ll do shoddy maintenance on the aircraft for a couple of years before bankruptcy.

Meanwhile the Uber execs appreciate your money. From this thread you now know that’s where 30% of the main bill goes. You can behave accordingly. You get to choose if you’re grateful someone is willing to drive you around for pennies in their nice car that they’re losing money on.

No big deal if you’re not grateful and want them to “gargle your nuts” as Schmoo says.

That’s just s reflection of your moral values, once you’ve looked over the math. Because you can look over the math, and didn’t do meth. LOL.

“I don’t tip because... [spins wheel]... METH!”

Funniest thing I’ve read this week. Hahaha. Awesome rationalization.
 
Maybe you should tip them with a lesson in how badly they're being screwed.

I’ll have a polite conversation about it. Sure. Have many times. Recommended they check out the Mr Money Mustache article on it. There’s better articles now and that one is aging, but it’s got a catchy name they might remember. Telling them to hunt down Forbes or whatever standard financial site articles doesn’t sound as fun.

*This isn’t a recommendation of the Mustache dude for all of his stuff. He’s kinda a boob. His techniques and lifestyle have caused him a lot of personal relationship problems outside of his fiscal guru online persona. Discernment required. :)
 
I hate the tipping culture. I used Uber specifically because they didn't allow tips (at least via the app). I also don't tip doormen, bus/shuttle drivers (unless I have a large amount of luggage), flight attendants, parking attendants, hotel cleaning people, linemen, doctors, lawyers, salespeople, or most other professions. I do tip waitstaff when I sit down for dinner, although rarely do for take-out. Waitstaff have a lower hourly pay because part of their compensation is supposed to come from tips. I hate that also.

I believe people should get a reasonable and decent wage for their work, and would be more willing to pay more for dinner and other services to skip tipping if it meant the workers were getting a decent, livable wage. It's ridiculous that I need to factor in an additional 20% on top of the cost of the meal and drinks every time I go out to eat.
 
But you can't fix the situation by stiffing the customarily tipped employees.
 
When Uber started, they had generally nice cars and didn't allow tipping. Now the cars are smelly crap and they want you to tip.

Not tipping is the WHOLE POINT of Uber, since a smelly private car is no better than a smelly cab.
Not putting a tip function in the app is not the same thing as not allowing tipping. I gave my first Uber driver $2 way before they put it in the app and he was very happy to accept it.

I can't believe the people that say tipping shouldn't be "allowed". Do you really want someone else telling you that you cannot give someone a tip?
 
I just took a Lyft. Tipped the guy although he doesn't do it for the money (retired, wife wants him out of the house).
 
When I was visiting Seattle earlier this year, a few restaurants had a message on the receipt that said something like:

"a 20% service charge has been added to your bill to allow us to provide medical insurance and job benefits to our employees. None of this service charge is distributed directly to employees". I had a problem with that.
 
I think it's great that people are more aware of the hardships of low wage workers and all but our tipping system isn't a good solution to that. In fact it's probably the least fair way one could possibly handle it. Just put a bit of thought into it....

McDonald's/other fast food worker- nobody tips
Casual diner type place with ~$15 plate- 20% tip = $3
Fancier restaurant with ~$60 plate - 20% tip = $12

Do these 3 different restaurant workers do significantly more/less work than the others? Are any of the people in these groups better off financially than others? If tipping is about helping out people who aren't doing so well than why am I not tipping the McDonald's worker and tipping the fancy place worker $12? It doesn't even make any sense. Then there's the whole issue of the servers getting tips and the cooks and dishwashers not. Wal-mart pays a lot of employees minimum wage, you ever tip someone at wal-mart? Come on.

I don't have any problem with people tipping as a thank you but it's not a thank you anymore it's an obligation, it's expected. You're shamed for not doing it. That's ridiculous. Restaurants shouldn't be allowed to pay employees less than minimum wage, contractors(like uber drivers) should be allowed to set their own rates if they are indeed contractors. If you expect to get paid an extra 20% then just make it so you charge me the extra 20% for god sakes. Shifting the burden for determining extra pay onto the customer is a crappy way to treat your customers and as a system to help people who don't get paid well enough it's an incredibly unfair and crappy way to do it for them too.

Also, revisiting the whole "if you can afford x then you can afford to tip" assumption... can I? Yup, I'm lucky enough I can afford to own and fly a nice airplane no doubt about it and some of that did come from good fortune in life no doubt. However, quite a bit of it also came from hard work and being really careful about spending. I don't own expensive clothes, the furnishings in my home are quite modest, I agonize over littler purchases, eat at home, etc, etc. It wasn't long ago I owed a friend a favor and helped him clean out a rental home that had been abandoned by the last tennant. This was a very low income person, we found a ton of mail in the mailbox from debt collectors. What we also found while cleaning jumped out at me- name brand everything in the kitchen, premium cat litter, very nice kid's toys, much of it still perfectly good. Here I am, someone who could afford to buy an airplane and I'm aghast at the waste in this home, I would have saved most of that or at least tried to sell it or give it someone who could use it. I don't want to make any assumptions about this person, I didn't even know them and who knows what's going on their life. Point is, while some of us are certainly more fortunate we also all do make choices in life as to what to do with what we have. If it's unfair to make assumptions about a person due to lack of wealth, maybe don't assume things about someone who appears to. Maybe they worked really hard and saved to have that one really nice luxury thing and didn't get it all handed to them on a silver platter. You don't know.
 
When I was visiting Seattle earlier this year, a few restaurants had a message on the receipt that said something like:

"a 20% service charge has been added to your bill to allow us to provide medical insurance and job benefits to our employees. None of this service charge is distributed directly to employees". I had a problem with that.

Thank the Seattle minimum wage ordinance for that.
 
We’ve already covered this. Medallions only affect a small number of cities.

Anywhere else you’re just screwing the driver, willfully knowing you’re getting a better ride than you paid for, knowing how these companies operate.

It’s impossible to get a limo at a (non-medallion) cab rate for a reason. A nice fleet costs MONEY.

You aren't getting a limo. You're getting a Prius, a Sonata, a Corolla, one of those Fusion hybrids with the impossible trunks, or whatever. They are much more efficient than taxis or limos and much less luxurious than a limo. It isn't a nice fleet. It is a basic transportation fleet. You aren't making the case well going down that road.

Since tipping cab drivers is customary, I don't see the rationale for not doing the same for Uber, etc.

I never knew that some folks consider tipping fuel-truck drivers to be customary. I did tip the one who drove to the airport to fuel the plane when I landed after hours. I also tipped the ones who helped me remove snow from the airplane at no charge.

On the first part, absolutely. While Uber started as a no-tip black car service that was competitive with taxis, it is now a basic form of public transportation that relies on private persons to engage in the the service - like a taxi, but without the waste.

On tipping line guys, it really depends. If I'm just getting fuel, I'm probably not tipping the guy - in fact, I'm probably not even there to see the fueling - as I'm either inside the air conditioned FBO using the bathroom and drinking water and coffee, or I'm off doing whatever task I was there for and they are fueling while I'm away. I really only supervise fueling when I'm looking for less than a top off. If it is a situation where I'm at an airport that gets a lot of heavy metal and I'm looking for a few favors, like a decent parking position and maybe a little help with something, I'll throw the line a few bucks - they actually rarely get tipped and are appreciative.

Think of it this way - do you tip valet parking? I have an expensive car and it still cost less than my airplane, so should I maybe throw a few bucks at the low paid kid who is taking care of my expensive investment?

Thank the Seattle minimum wage ordinance for that.

No, thank restaurant owner greed for that. They could raise the price of their items 50-100 cents and make up for the minimum wage. Even less for drinks.
 
When I was visiting Seattle earlier this year, a few restaurants had a message on the receipt that said something like:

"a 20% service charge has been added to your bill to allow us to provide medical insurance and job benefits to our employees. None of this service charge is distributed directly to employees". I had a problem with that.
It's also illegal.
 
Not putting a tip function in the app is not the same thing as not allowing tipping. I gave my first Uber driver $2 way before they put it in the app and he was very happy to accept it.

I can't believe the people that say tipping shouldn't be "allowed". Do you really want someone else telling you that you cannot give someone a tip?

When UBER started users told that tipping wasn't required. UBER drivers (and yes I was one) were to tell anybody who tried to tip in cash that it wasn't necessary but we were allowed to take it anyway.
 
You aren't getting a limo. You're getting a Prius, a Sonata, a Corolla, one of those Fusion hybrids with the impossible trunks, or whatever. They are much more efficient than taxis or limos and much less luxurious than a limo. It isn't a nice fleet. It is a basic transportation fleet. You aren't making the case well going down that road.

Sure I am. We’re talking about comparing a fully depreciated Crown Vic that’s 20 years old versus that Corolla. In relative terms, you’re getting a limo.

You’re just getting it from a company who figured out how to get their drivers to eat the fleet depreciation to keep the cost to you similar to the Crown Vic fleet.

We all know this. There’s no such thing as a free lunch.
 
Note: You’re not ALLOWED to use that same Crown Vic for Uber or Lyft. They’ll claim it’s about “safety”. Even if the thing is flawlessly maintained.
 
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