This one is VERY hard to listen to...I'm guessing another "cognitive decline"...

[Country Flier]

Just a guess, but because the pilot sound elderly and confused, I'm gonna say cognitive decline:

This guy is the train wreck that just keeps on giving...

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don't know that it was cognitive decline. I've heard similar stuff from young pilots. But it was pretty awful. Wonder what the phone call was like.

 

[Anthem]

I mean they sent fire or whatever EMS personnel to insure that they got him to call tower.. . . . hilarious.

 

[Jim_R]

Wow. I don't know about cognitive decline...he's clear and coherent in his calls and just seems incompetent/oblivious to me.

When he was in the air I wondered if maybe he forgot to set his DG and was following a heading that didn't match the compass.

Once he got on the ground...yeah, I got nuthin' there. He seems to have stopped on E just after exiting the runway, so his brakes worked at least once. Dunno why he couldn't find them or get them to work a few seconds later.

 

[Anthem]

he also taxied on E right past without stopping after clearing the runway. The other jet going the other way stopped. I mean I believe he is supposed to clear the runway, switch to ground and then get permission to taxi to wherever. He didnt do that, didnt hold short (blamed the brakes) and who knows what else. . .

 

[Clip4]

The problem is this pilots believes he has operated out of TEB for 14 years. In reality, he has probably operated out of TEB the 7 flights a fool CFI has used to endorse 1 hour flight reviews.

 

[Clip4]

he also taxied on E right past without stopping after clearing the runway. The other jet going the other way stopped. I mean I believe he is supposed to clear the runway, switch to ground and then get permission to taxi to wherever. He didnt do that, didnt hold short (blamed the brakes) and who knows what else. . .

Replay the video and look at the taxiway. He had to get the entire plane past the hold line before stopping. Maybe the only thing he did correct.

 

[Katamarino]

Not often I hear as big a disaster as this guy.

Got to be some kind of senility issue, surely.

 

[Daleandee]

Scary stuff right there ...

 

[tsts4]

There's already a thread on this down in Change to My Frequency.

 

[EdFred]

Sounds like a typical day during Airventure.

 

[robin ardoin]

He said he "just got this airplane". Jeez...give the guy a break. LOL

Disaster? You are being kind.

 

[weilke]

Not a bad idea to have someone check on him. CO poisoning or hypoglycemia can make people sound completely incoherent.

 

[Daleandee]

hypoglycemia can make people sound completely incoherent.

Had an event with a family member many years ago. Someone spotted them walking dazed through the grocery store parking lot pushing a buggy full of stuff with their credit card still in their hand not being able to find the car (thank God they didn't get in & try to drive).

Not sure how long this went on before a good samaritian recognized the problem and called EMS. After a D50 shot they were back to normal (of course we had to go and get them as they had to be released to an adult) ...

 

[Jim_R]

There's already a thread on this down in Change to My Frequency.

Yup: https://pilotsofamerica.com/communi...nother-cognitive-decline.147468/#post-3524654

 

[dmspilot]

Even if he had a brake failure, he could have steered the airplane into the grass. It is a Piper Cherokee after all.

 

[Randomskylane]

Even if he had a brake failure, he could have steered the airplane into the grass. It is a Piper Cherokee after all.

He was having a bad day. Probably end up with a prop strike and a 50k invoice if he went into the grass

 

[dmspilot]

He was having a bad day. Probably end up with a prop strike and a 50k invoice if he went into the grass

I am aware of the potential for damage. Entering the runway, getting hit by another a/c and killing innocent bystanders is not the better option.

 

[bbchien]

I am aware of the potential for damage. Entering the runway, getting hit by another a/c and killing innocent bystanders is not the better option.

"a report of operational violation has just recieved which constitues a reasonable basis for evaluation of your capabilities to exercise duties of pilot in command. Within 60 days from the date of this letter, please submit a neruopsychological evaluation brom a neurospychologist familiar with aviation standards...." sigh.

 

[Brad W]

Not a bad idea to have someone check on him. CO poisoning or hypoglycemia can make people sound completely incoherent.

that's a nice paradigm shift right there!

Human nature that the controllers got angry/frustrated/whatever with him...they criticized him and threatened him. None of that is arguably called for, but sort of understandable at least....especially given the region's culture
I wasn't getting any of that myself while listing...but I will admit some negativity.... not sure what it was...negative amazement I suppose
but yeah, thinking about it. The brakes excuse sounded like the plane was coming back from maintenance.

SO Yeah, what if none of this was the guy's fault?...well other than just not springing for a good CO alarm. Sort of changes things from the negative to sympathetic and compassion

 

[dmspilot]

Likely explanation for the "brake failure"

 

[Matthew]

Yowza. I lost track of how many controllers he talked to. The only instructions that worked in the whole event were, “follow that traffic in front of you.”

 

[Timbeck2]

It’s very frustrating as a controller to give an instruction and not have it acknowledged in busy airspace. This guy didn’t answer them several times or follow the heading instructions. I’ve felt their pain several times and it’s caused mostly by C-130 pilots. Have I mentioned that before?

 

[Racerx]

Ok that was awful. But the female controller was ready to fight from the get go. Her yelling probably didn't help the situation.

Butttt.....I get the frustration when not complying with a heading or altitude.

 

[texasclouds]

Ok that was awful. But the female controller was ready to fight from the get go. Her yelling probably didn't help the situation.

Butttt.....I get the frustration when not complying with a heading or altitude.

Yea, she was ready to kick him out of the airspace. In reality, the safest thing may be to just get him on the ground. Any runway, just get it done then we’ll talk.

 

[Baked Potato]

Can you be kicked out of Class D? I thought only communication was required.

 

[robin ardoin]

…snip…CO poisoning or hypoglycemia can make people sound completely incoherent.

That’s the thing….he sounded completely coherent to me. That’s what I find disturbing.

 

[asicer]

Can you be kicked out of Class D? I thought only communication was required.

FAR 91.123(b)
"Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised."

 

[Dave Theisen]

Yea, she was ready to kick him out of the airspace. In reality, the safest thing may be to just get him on the ground. Any runway, just get it done then we’ll talk.

Tough to do when Approach is sending you a jet every minute and a half.

 

[Anthem]

Keep in mind if they are landing 19 at kteb that means kewr is landing 22l/22r. And departures out of kteb follow the ruudy6 staying underneath of arrivals. So the controllers can’t have them anywhere west of the airport or it will impact Newark.

Also no idea how he was at 600ft. But sounds to be an entire clusterf*** the entire thing

 

[172andyou]

That’s the thing….he sounded completely coherent to me. That’s what I find disturbing.

Yeah, he wasn't slurring words or anything. But he wasn't acting coherent.

I really appreciated the change in attitude of the controller that got him on the ground. Understand the frustration from a couple others, but respect to the guy who deescalated the situation, got the guy down safely and then they can deal with whatever the problem was (medical, training, mechanical or whatever)

Tough to do when Approach is send you a jet every minute and a half.

IMO this situation was bad enough to call Approach and tell them to stop for a few minutes. Worst case scenario is that 3-5 people have to abort their approach and do a hold of some sort. We don't know why this guy was unsafe, but we know that for some reason he was unsafe. That takes priority.

 

[Racerx]

I really appreciated the change in attitude of the controller that got him on the ground. Understand the frustration from a couple others, but respect to the guy who deescalated the situation, got the guy down safely and then they can deal with whatever the problem was (medical, training, mechanical or whatever)

That de escalation by the controller really saved the day and that's what got everyone on the ground. Pilot was a disaster. But when he asked if they wanted him on a downwind for 24 and the woman screamed back "we want you to fly the heading you were given"....thats not helping. Granted routinely asking to fly a heading and not flying it isn't helpful either.

 

[SFDukie]

Yea, she was ready to kick him out of the airspace. In reality, the safest thing may be to just get him on the ground. Any runway, just get it done then we’ll talk.

Yep.
The guy was a disaster and a low level menace.
The female controller didn’t help.
If you need to slow up all arrivals for 5” that it takes to get this guy down-seems the best course of action. Not the end of the world.

 

[Anthem]

Honestly - in that airspace and area - I would have force punted him out to Morristown, Westchester, or Caldwell. You cant have a guy like that - that isnt listening to heading instructions, not following them and unable to hold altitude in that airspace or area. Its not just slowing up arrivals at KTEB, but also very very nearby Newark that is frequently bringing in planes two at a time over their parallel runways there. The pilot was an absolute hazard to those in the air and on the ground if something happens. Get him out of the bravo/delta and to a slightly less busy airport.

 

[flyingron]

Even if he had a brake failure, he could have steered the airplane into the grass. It is a Piper Cherokee after all.

Or push that red lever all the way down, or turn the key all the way to the left. Unless there's some slope there, she's not going anywhere without the fan blowing.

 

[sarangan]

Not trying to defend the pilot's actions, but that second controller was pretty bad. "Fly the heading we told you to" is a useless instruction. It took more words and time and escalated the pilot's anxiety, instead of simply stating "fly heading 200". "You have to pay attention or you have to get out of my delta" is also completely unnecessary. In a congested airspace, these type of public scolding is unprofessional IMHO. The pilot may have been lost and slow to act, but at least he was not belligerent and unprofessional.

 

[Anthem]

Sorry. I understand once. But I think it was 4x that he didnt follow heading commands. It was at least 2x that he didnt heed altitude command. He didnt contact ground before moving after clearing the runway. he didnt hold short of runway 24 as instructed. He missed at least 4 calls to his plane because he "missed" instructions. he tried to set up downwind on a runway that they werent landing on. What is that, like 6+ pilot deviations ? At what point do you stop defending the pilot for any transgressions / frustrations that ATC has ? They were fully professional for the first 3 missed calls. After that - this guy is a hazard to everybody else out there. He shouldnt be up there as student pilots soloing follow directions better. He was flat out just flying his own like at an uncontrolled airport and ignoring all instructions. Im not sure he complied with one instruction correctly. . .

Why should others in one of the busiest corridors in the world be in danger and inconvenienced over the repeated transgressions of an incapable pilot ? Because he wasnt belligerant and unprofessional ? Maybe not unprofessional in his responses (which he missed half of), but he was certainly unprofessional in his flying. . .

 

[robin ardoin]

@Anthem I don't see anyone defending the pilot's actions/lack of actions, just merely pointing out the less than calm and professional attitude of one of the controllers. Contrast her behavior with that of the other controller being heard....calm and professional, giving just pertinent info vs ranting and emotional. If I'm running your code after suffering an MI, do you want me to be calm and reiteration instructions to an assisting aid/nurse when they do the incorrect action....or do you want me to waste time berating them and saying "get the drug I asked you to get" vs give me "1mg epi, please".

 

[Anthem]

@Anthem I don't see anyone defending the pilot's actions/lack of actions, just merely pointing out the less than calm and professional attitude of one of the controllers. Contrast her behavior with that of the other controller being heard....calm and professional, giving just pertinent info vs ranting and emotional. If I'm running your code after suffering an MI, do you want me to be calm and reiteration instructions to an assisting aid/nurse when they do the incorrect action....or do you want me to waste time berating them and saying "get the drug I asked you to get" vs give me "1mg epi, please".

and I totally get that there are potentially better ways to handle that situation. But you have people saying - well - why not just delay 5 or 6 other passenger jets and what not and let this guy land ? Um - no, kick him to a smaller airport with less traffic than deal with him in there.

And using your example - I agree to a a certain extent. But if you told them 6x to do this and they didnt, you'd just kick them out of the OR and get someone else in there. At some point - he is a greater hazard to the patient than help to you. . . - potentially not following directions and giving you the incorrect drug or amount because he isnt listening and isnt doing the correct thing.

 

[robin ardoin]

But if you told them 6x to do this and they didnt, you'd just kick them out of the OR and get someone else in there. At some point - he is a greater hazard to the patient than help to you. . . - potentially not following directions and giving you the incorrect drug or amount because he isnt listening and isnt doing the correct thing.

Point taken.