Single engine with landing gear alerts

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jeffs chips

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I have read that some single engine airplanes have alerts or even automatic extension of landing gear when there is a combination of low air speed and mixture combinations.

Is there a list of these airplanes (180 - 250 hp) that provide that functionally or can some forum readers suggest such? Not interested in forking over tens of thousands of dollars only to forget to lower the gear on approach.
 
I think every retractable airplane I've been in has some type of "gear-up" warning system. Usually attached to the throttle lever, if it's pulled back beyond a certain point (usually about 14") and the gear is up, the horn will sound. Also some have a switch on the flap lever as well.

It would be shorter to make a list of retractable airplanes that DON'T have some sort of gear-not-down warning.
 
I do think there is a model or two with automatic extension capabilities. Also can add a box to pipe “check gear” into your headset when certain conditions are met. My 310 is pretty obnoxious with the gear horn if the flaps are past approach or the manifold is below 15 or so and the gear is up. Very hard to imagine not reacting with the horn blaring, but it happens regularly. Fortunately the 310 is fast and I almost always need it out to slow down.
 
What would account for gear up landings? Perhaps the pilots get immune to the alert? Hyper focused on landing regime?
 
jeffs chips said:
What would account for gear up landings? Perhaps the pilots get immune to the alert? Hyper focused on landing regime?
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I think that is the primary reason. Maybe some horns are hard to hear with noise canceling headsets, mine is not. You can find videos on the internet of gear ups with the horn blaring the video.
 
My 1969 Piper Arrow HAD an automatic gear extension system. It was designed around a secondary pitot tube mounted just outside of the pilot's window on the fuselage. The system would automatically lower the landing gear should the airspeed drop below 110 mph. The system worked okay, I understand, BUT was the source of some dangerous situations such as when one might have to make a "gear-up" landing. In that case the pilot had to manually hold an override lever to prevent the gear from free-falling. Also, there were occasions when the secondary pitot tube would ice-up or be otherwise clogged and the gear would free-fall. A maximum effort takeoff and climb also could result in the gear staying down when you really needed the drag to go away! So, the FAA approved a modification that permanently disabled the system which is the case for my Arrow 200. Like many other planes now, mine has a very loud horn that sounds when the throttle is reduced to less than 15 inches of manifold pressure if the flaps are not deployed.
 
Most retractable-gear airplanes have gear warning horns, I'm not familiar with any that don't. The Piper Arrow has a backup gear extender. There is an extra "pitot tube" on the left side of the fuselage in the propwash which will lower the gear below a certain airspeed, lower with power on. There is also a separate warning horn activated by a switch in the throttle quadrant.
 
Topper said:
I think that is the primary reason. Maybe some horns are hard to hear with noise canceling headsets, mine is not. You can find videos on the internet of gear ups with the horn blaring the video.
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A ANR will let you hear the stall horn better... Not block it out.
 
jeffs chips said:
I have read that some single engine airplanes have alerts or even automatic extension of landing gear when there is a combination of low air speed and mixture combinations.

Is there a list of these airplanes (180 - 250 hp) that provide that functionally or can some forum readers suggest such? Not interested in forking over tens of thousands of dollars only to forget to lower the gear on approach.
Click to expand...

My Bonanza has a warning. We tested it at annual doing gear retracts. It is pretty hard to forget to put the gear down. Dropping the gear is what slows you down to get ready to throw flaps in. I think the approach would be way different if the gear was up. Like nose way high trying to keep it slow. I used to worry about that stuff before flying a retract. Now I have the Bonanza I never worry about forgetting the gear.
Do you forget to put your car in park when you stop?
Post a landing checklist in the panel.
 
My instructor had a student flying final approach with the gear horn going off. He told her if she'd advance the throttle a bit that noise would stop, so she did.
Not quite the reaction he was expecting.
 
pigpenracing said:
My Bonanza has a warning. We tested it at annual doing gear retracts. It is pretty hard to forget to put the gear down. Dropping the gear is what slows you down to get ready to throw flaps in. I think the approach would be way different if the gear was up. Like nose way high trying to keep it slow. I used to worry about that stuff before flying a retract. Now I have the Bonanza I never worry about forgetting the gear.
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My K35 Bonanza was the same way -- but don't convince yourself that you never have to worry about the gear.

Where a lot of people get bit in airplanes like that is after a go-around or in closed traffic. They retract the gear in the climb, but staying in the pattern with reduced power the speed doesn't have a chance to build up past Vfe. Flaps come down on downwind, and everything feels more or less normal on the approach, until the scraping sound starts.

It's when the routine is disrupted (e.g., after a go-around) that the checklist becomes especially important.
 
jeffs chips said:
I have read that some single engine airplanes have alerts or even automatic extension of landing gear when there is a combination of low air speed and mixture combinations.

Is there a list of these airplanes (180 - 250 hp) that provide that functionally or can some forum readers suggest such? Not interested in forking over tens of thousands of dollars only to forget to lower the gear on approach.
Click to expand...

Then.... don’t make that mistake. Make it a part of your landing checklist three times.
 
My Commander has a bell that rings if flaps are lowered past 20* or manifold pressure drops below 12.5 and the gear is up.
 
Some Bellanca Vikings have the automatic extension feature, it was known as the Auto-Axion.
 
The old single-seat Mooney M18 Mite had an unusual gear warning system -- a little metal flag on the panel that would wig-wag back and forth like a windshield wiper. :D

Mitepanel.jpg
 
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The arrow auto extension system was stupid from the beginning, as was the beech models that hand a gear handle and lights, but fixed gear.

YOu have to think about what you are teaching the human running the thing..

And to answer your question, the problem with using a MP gauge setting is headwinds. Strong headwinds require more power for a given glideslope, add in some destractions, etc.. Or they just aren't at loud as they should be, some just plane don't work well.
 
Arrow76R said:
My 1969 Piper Arrow HAD an automatic gear extension system. It was designed around a secondary pitot tube mounted just outside of the pilot's window on the fuselage. The system would automatically lower the landing gear should the airspeed drop below 110 mph. The system worked okay, I understand, BUT was the source of some dangerous situations such as when one might have to make a "gear-up" landing. In that case the pilot had to manually hold an override lever to prevent the gear from free-falling. Also, there were occasions when the secondary pitot tube would ice-up or be otherwise clogged and the gear would free-fall. A maximum effort takeoff and climb also could result in the gear staying down when you really needed the drag to go away! So, the FAA approved a modification that permanently disabled the system which is the case for my Arrow 200. Like many other planes now, mine has a very loud horn that sounds when the throttle is reduced to less than 15 inches of manifold pressure if the flaps are not deployed.
Click to expand...

dmspilot said:
Most retractable-gear airplanes have gear warning horns, I'm not familiar with any that don't. The Piper Arrow has a backup gear extender. There is an extra "pitot tube" on the left side of the fuselage in the propwash which will lower the gear below a certain airspeed, lower with power on. There is also a separate warning horn activated by a switch in the throttle quadrant.
Click to expand...

Our club used to have a 1969 PA-28R-200. That automatic gear extension system was disabled long before I started flying it in 2001. Didn't miss it. Although we sold it a while ago and I no longer fly it, I still hear my CFI's words, "Mid field, gear down, three in the green. Turn base, three in the green. Turn final, three in the green. Short final, three in the green." He said he had never landed with the gear up and wasn't about to start. Far more effective than depending on a mechanical device that can fail.
 
jeffs chips said:
I have read that some single engine airplanes have alerts or even automatic extension of landing gear when there is a combination of low air speed and mixture combinations.

Is there a list of these airplanes (180 - 250 hp) that provide that functionally or can some forum readers suggest such? Not interested in forking over tens of thousands of dollars only to forget to lower the gear on approach.
Click to expand...

I did my commercial checkride in a Piper Arrow that would drop the gear below a certain speed. I can understand why they do that, but it was a pain in a training scenario. The gear drops during power-on stalls and chandelles, which meant that I had to hold a switch while during these maneuvers.
 
sarangan said:
I did my commercial checkride in a Piper Arrow that would drop the gear below a certain speed. I can understand why they do that, but it was a pain in a training scenario. The gear drops during power-on stalls and chandelles, which meant that I had to hold a switch while during these maneuvers.
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Mine locks up and a flashing light indicated the gear has been bypassed. Your Arrow did not?
 
Correct. The emergency gear extension lever in my '69 Arrow had to be manually held in the "up" position according to the POH (aka "owner's manual in '69). The external pitot tube was removed from my plane (before I bought it) and the warning switch installed so that with less than 15 inches MP (no flaps selected) OR 2nd or more flap position set regardless of throttle setting the horn blows. Gets a bit annoying on short field take-off with the recommended 2nd "notch" of flaps when I retract the gear for max performance!!
 
Wow, those videos sum it up. Distraction, distraction, distraction. You can't have it both way - hyper-vigilant on final (which can actually deter you from proper checks) and good landings. . .

Me stick with fixed hear me think.
 
Suggestions on single engine 180-250 hp fixed gear? Prefer 4 seats. Used market 45k-65k.

Thanks.
 
Pilawt said:
The old single-seat Mooney M18 Mite had an unusual gear warning system -- a little metal flag on the panel that would wig-wag back and forth like a windshield wiper.
Click to expand...
omg, was that not hugely annoying during cruise? And, one would become inured to it; it would be ignored when the time came?
 
jeffs chips said:
What would account for gear up landings? Perhaps the pilots get immune to the alert? Hyper focused on landing regime?
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It expedites the process of turning an airplane into a source of cash.

Henning said:
Had it insured for what I was trying to sell it for.
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I have flown planes with a radar altimeter that will sound the alarm if the gear is not down at 200 AGL.

One time one of those failed and at 14,000 MSL and it started going off..... A real distraction, I tell ya whut....
 
G ear down
U ndercarriage down
M ake certain the damn gear is down
P ut your hand on the farging switch to make sure the gear is down
S ure the gear is down?

Funny thing is in my Johnson Bar Mooney I have a gear light, even though the J-bar is pretty obvious. I had thought that J-bar Mooneys would have a smaller gear up rate because of the physical effort of swinging the gear. Ron Wattana says no. I deploy gear and flaps a couple miles out, so on downwind I'm doing GUMPS and looking for traffic.
 
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