You mean 90-270, assuming a downwind landing? One of the magazines did an article on impossible turns a while back. I’ll have to find it. There’s also some merit in a sloppy turn to crash land on airport property, which is generally flat.
Depending on how you do it and what the wind direction is, it can be 180 left, another 90 left then another 90 right. It's still a loss of altitude and/or airspeed in every turn, So 180 + 90 + 90 is still a 360 degree turn regardless of the directions of the turns themselves. It's deadly at a low altitude and a low airspeed but it can be done, which has a tendency to bait people into doing it, but it's still deadly in most cases.
I mentioned it in a Kitplanes article back in 2022.
I'm not sure I agree about better visibility, especially in a turn. A lot of it depends on how tall you are and how far back you sit.
Hi Ron and everyone.
Uh, buddy, here in the Adirondacks you have VERY few emergency choices that are NOT trees. Those choices include ponds, lakes, rivers, mountainsides and other swampy, boggy areas that would not be ideal. Pine trees are the softest choice, compared to dense growths of hardwood,
slick airframe or not. 
I've done a little online analysis.
That's true to some extent (although in some situations there would be time to lower the gear), but in any airplane if the impact with tree tops occurs at a slow airspeed and the airframe remains largely intact the wings can do a pretty good job of keeping the plane from dropping quickly. It's certainly not the only alternative with an engine failure, but there are clearly times where it can be the best one.
You're obviously right. I suspect the actual impact point is at about the 10'clock of what I show, in the ravine in that area. One of the news videos show the plane with a strap around it.
That highlights one of the things I don't like about the "do the impossible turn" suggestion: It's a VERY ragged edge between saving the airplane and killing the occupants. Pull it off, you're alive and the airplane is probably undamaged. Blow it, and you're likely dead.
Me either, but as soon as you call something impossible there’s a rush to prove you wrong, often with flawed assumptions.
That’s one of my takeaways as well. For instance, the golf course that seemed to be within gliding distance when looking at the planview is actually mostly above the runway elevation. Some decisions and limitations become more apparent when you look at things in 3D. Viable options were few.
The energy maximizing approach in this particular situation would seem to have been a 220(ish) turn to the right that resulted in the airplane touching down on the tabletop of the airfield - forget the runway, pavement, and the like. If there's energy left after the 220, try to line up with the runway as much as possible.
So rule of thumb - which way do you turn? Into the wind to stay close and maintain altitude, or with the wind to speed your progression over the ground? Or “it depends”?
IMO turn(or not) toward whatever will get you to a flat surface quicker, you wont have time to think of the wind….. You have less than a minute to live or die. Brain will go into flight or fright and wind direction will factor zero into your decision at 500 feet. Nor the silly green circle on your iPad. Push stick down and find a flat spot. At my local airport for example if I depart west I know I have to turn right if shiat hits fan at 500…there is a little cozy spot I have eyed previously…so I dont have to think about it. I try and find the good places to land at any airport before I depart…esp new ones. I check weather then google maps…so you guys dont have to after. Anyhow my 2c. Of course these engines quit on you the one day when you forget to check crap …and especially if you are famous.
Always into the wind unless you know you have a better alternative in the other direction. (You can't "maintain altitude" with a failed engine when you're already close to best glide airspeed.) Turning away from the wind just increases your distance from the runway, and in that case when you try to recover that loss you have to head back into the wind.
All other things being equal, that would be my vote too. If you decided to bail out of a turn back attempt I’d rather be turned toward the wind as much as possible to reduce ground speed.
Good point as well, especially with a strong crosswind component. And don't discount the visual perception if you turn downwind. It LOOKS like you must be going fast enough to avoid a stall, and with so much going on, looking at the ASI isn't always a high priority.
I didn't need to do that. I was assuming that Russ Francis was also highly qualified.
Appears to be highly experienced.
Yes.....here's McSpadden:Appears to be highly experienced.
Living to fly
LAKE PLACID — Russ Francis grew up wanting to fly, and he spent his life in the sky. Francis died in a plane crash at the Lake Placid Airport on Sunday along with the senior vice president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association Richard McSpadden. He was 70. “To Russ, flying was like...www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com
| CFI/FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR - AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE (2023-11-30) CFI/FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR - INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE (2023-11-30) PILOT/COMMERCIAL - AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND PILOT/COMMERCIAL - AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND LIMITED TO CENTER THRUST PILOT/COMMERCIAL - AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE SEA PILOT/COMMERCIAL - AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND PILOT/COMMERCIAL - AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE SEA PILOT/COMMERCIAL - INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE REM PILOT/REMOTE PILOT - SMALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEM |
If you are too low for a turnaround, then usually you took off INTO the wind. You may not have to turn much. It is another reason the currently best practice method is to land within the 60 degree v shaped area in front of you INTO THE WIND!!
Wind is just one of the factors to consider, in the brief seconds or split-seconds you have. For instance, regardless of wind, a departure from runway 27 at KIPT will ALWAYS be a right turn and vice versa for RWY 9. Why? There’s a mountain on the south side of the runway sticking up 2000´ above the field. This comment is not directed at the pilots of this accident due to their familiarity with the field, but this is why we teach students the importance of preflight preparation, not just of the aircraft, but of the details of the flight.
And he was Thunderbird One back in his USAF days.
Yes....and both pilots were type rated in other aircraft.
What??. Land his P-51 in a parking lot?Richard owned a Super Cub.....and was a regular at the airport. Do we really need to discuss the pilot's qualifications?
“He used to fly his P-51 Mustang to practice and land in the stadium parking lot and really **** off (49ers head coach) Bill Walsh,” Naiman recalled.
Living to fly
LAKE PLACID — Russ Francis grew up wanting to fly, and he spent his life in the sky. Francis died in a plane crash at the Lake Placid Airport on Sunday along with the senior vice president of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association Richard McSpadden. He was 70. “To Russ, flying was like...
Both of these pilots were very qualified....and had more experience than any here.
