Richard McSpadden Crash

Mahneuvers said:
Great information on Richard. Thank you. What high school was this?
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It was our 10 Year Page High School in GSO. He definitely won for most classic arrival!!! It was years later when I met his brother and parents and realized that the whole family had such an aviation background. I first saw him in shows when I was at an air show in ILM with the Blue Angels headlining the show and I remarked to friends that I had a friend that once flew for the Air Force and I wondered out loud what he must be up to. I told my friends there that I had a friend who used to fly fighters and the next thing I knew the air show announcers said that Capt. Richard McSpadden would be flying the Air Force F-15 demonstration Flight. I was awestruck and managed to find him after the show and saw his parents and brother. The Air Force apparently lets pilots occasionally fly demos at airshows near their homes? What a good recruiting tool! Anyway, the next year Capt Richard McSpadden made Major and became Commander of the Thunderbirds. I hooked up with his brother and parents and managed to see him in several airshows after this. Quite proud and honored to have known him and enjoyed some of the unclassified stories that he shared. Blue skies Sir!
 
Very saddened having learned form his work and always felt like an old friend when he spoke. Richard leaves a wonderful legacy for improving general aviation; I'll be a better pilot when I earn my wings thanks to that.
 
Jim K said:
That's upsetting. If that can happen to him, what chance do I have? Is it all just luck?
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In a word: yes. It is just luck (or lack of it) when we are handed an impossible situation to deal with.

In an engine-out situation at low altitude over hostile terrain, there is not much that can be done with skill and experience. The outcome - whether the occupants get hurt or not - is a matter of luck. It's the word the late Captain Al Haynes used about surviving his ill-fated flight UA 232, in an airplane which was so badly damaged that it had basically been written off completely. And yet he and quite a few of the passengers lived through it.

The good news is that these impossible situations are very, very rare. But we cannot completely eliminate all risk in flying, whether it's over heavily wooded areas or a city airport.

- Martin
 
It is not all luck! Neither is it all skill.
Each incident is a combination of both; some are all luck and some are all skill, and there are a million combinations in between.

This crash does not mean we should give up!
I will bet everything that Mr. McSpadden would, if he could speak, agree with me - even though I know little about him.
We keep on training and studying so that we can be better prepared.
We maximize our skills so that in those situations where skill plays a significant part, we are at our best.
 
My daughter was supposed to fly with him in an Extra at Sun in Fun a couple of years back and I did not know they were friends through work. Been a rough couple of days for her. Weather stopped the flight. She says he was a great guy…
 
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schmookeeg said:
I can't lie, when highly accomplished aviators go west like this, it makes me consider hanging it up.
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agreed. Very well put.
...I would add especially given his calm and intelligent demeanor...
but as others have pointed out, he very well might not have been PIC...
and even if he was, might have been the impossible situation as Martin points out....

I watched several of his safety institute analysis videos and I had a lot of respect for his calm and seemingly level headed approach. Seemed like a really great guy that would have been an honor and a joy to meet. A great goal for all of us.
 
Not much to add that hasn’t been said. The crash site looks very unforgiving, brush, trees, hilly.
 
azpilot said:
Those are very interesting numbers. Where did you find that information?
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Number of aircraft registered in the US, from the FAA registration database as of 31 December 2021. Divided by the number of aircraft accidents in 2021, from the NTSB accident database.

The actual result is a bit better than the one-in-175 I posted, since the number of accidents on the NTSB list includes those of foreign registry, happening in foreign countries, and unregistered aircraft. With these eliminated, it's closer to 1:230.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Sometimes it’s just your time.

Minimize risk through planning, good decisions, and training, but you can’t eliminate risk.

I only knew him through videos, but he seemed like a truly intelligent guy who cared about GA. From what I’m hearing from people that knew him, he really was one of the good guys. That combination seems depressingly rare.
 
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I don’t have much to add beyond what has been said already. I am very saddened to hear about this tragedy. Some say luck or lack of luck. While I’m not an extremely religious person, I do believe in a higher/supreme power. I choose to believe that we can do all we can to prepare, learn, study, but in the end that higher power decides our fate. To honor his memory, we should all wait for the NTSB report and then learn what we can from it. RIP Mr. McSpadden, you will truly be missed.
 
geezer said:
... his military training would have discouraged him from interfering with the PIC, until the PIC had reached a condition that was catastrophic. Then, at that altitude most likely to exist, it would be too late.
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I've unhesitatingly grabbed the controls more than once to save the aircraft, while in the military. Of course a former NFL player would be a hard person to grab them from. This accident is maddening. What in the living #### happened?
 
I would think that a military-trained pilot would intervene before it was too late. I was taught the two-challenge rule by an Army helo pilot, and figure it’s used throughout DOD aviation.
 
ateamer said:
I would think that a military-trained pilot would intervene before it was too late. I was taught the two-challenge rule by an Army helo pilot, and figure it’s used throughout DOD aviation.
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Yes, as would any CFI. But, you'd be surprised how quickly things can get out hand under the wrong circumstances. In most accidents, a well trained pilot has some time to get past the startle response and act, but not always.

As details slowly come out (some rumors/some eyewitness/location of the wreckage), I'm still not sure it was an intended turn back. It sounds like they may have only gotten to 200-300' AGL. If the airplane had been at a slow speed/high AOA on the climb out when the engine went and the pilot flying didn't quickly reduce the AOA, the airplane could easily have stalled and spun in with no time for Spad to successfully intervene.

An eyewitness reported seeing the airplane make a hard roll to the left. That could be an intended left turn back or it could simply be the left wing dropping from the stall/spin entry.

Looking at the map that mryan75 posted, I agree that based on the photos I've seen that the lat/long indicated is the likely crash spot. But that leaves questions as well. It is RIGHT of the runway centerline which would be a strange place to wind up if the pilot lost control while banking hard left to return to the runway.
 
While this is indeed tragic, not sure Mr. McFadden would be wanting us to re-evaluate our flying because of his raw deal. Luck works both ways. I know a few guys who should've met their maker and didn't. One went into the trees ina PA 28 and caught a pine with wing root and corkscrewed all the way down the trunk and walked away. Another put his 210 down on a road at night. When the insurance adjuster commented on his nice job missing the wires, he replied " Never even saw them ".

When your number's up, your number's up, whether getting out of the bath or flying your airplane. The best way to honor his legacy is to be a conscientious pilot, and go fly.
 
Straight ahead and 200 feet AGL into a hill.....leaves no options. They did their best.

PlaneCrash-560x840.jpg
 
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Rcmutz said:
To honor his memory, we should all wait for the NTSB report and then learn what we can from it.
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I respectfully disagree. I have little faith that the NTSB will provide much useful information in their report (which will likely take 2 years to come out), but then, I have seen the inner workings of that organization.

There is indeed value in pilots discussing what may have happened and what we might learn from it and as long as people check their attitudes, it absolutely can be done without disrespecting either occupant of the aircraft.

I have no delusions that I could have handled the situation better that Spad in that moment. But that doesn't mean that I can't learn something from this event.
 
wanttaja said:
Certainly luck plays into it. There's luck in having the engine quit within gliding range of a good field, there's luck in dodging a dust devil that hits you on takeoff, there's luck in having the field stay VFR long enough for you to land.

But you do make much of your own luck.

Let's look at the odds. In 2021, about one in every 175 aircraft in the US suffered an accident. In contrast, about six of seven visitors to Las Vegas loses money. Yet there are some—using a combination of skill, knowledge, ability to assess risk, and luck—that manage to go home with more money than they came with.

The same thing works with aviation safety. With skill, knowledge, the ability to assess risk, and yes, luck, you can reduce your chances of being the one out of the 175.

One thing I'd like to emphasize is to look at EVERY accident as something that could happen to you. Don't automatically dismiss them with, "Well, I'll never be THAT stupid." LOOK at the mistakes the pilot made, imagine what you might do to salvage the same situation.

Ron Wanttaja
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1 in 175 seems shockingly high.

A couple questions if I may...just out of curiosity.

How many total aircraft on the registry?
How many total accidents?
Would this include an incident where a drunk driver drove through a hangar and left his car parked on a Comanche? Or is this strictly moving incidents?
 
I suspect someone like Dave Hershman was in the Bonanza flying chase....with the cameraman. They know what happened. I'm hopeful, when the time is right there will be a safety brief developed from this event. Maybe even an article written. But, it's gonna be a while....long enough for the lawyers to calm down.
 
“There is indeed value in pilots discussing what may have happened and what we might learn from it and as long as people check their attitudes, it absolutely can be done without disrespecting either occupant of the aircraft.”

I would agree, except I have seen a lot of wild speculation during discussions of other accidents. Perhaps AOPA will do a McSpadden type early analysis of what MAY of happened, and what things the NTSB are LIKELY to look into. I’m sure he himself would appreciate that type of ”early” analysis.
 
Rcmutz said:
“There is indeed value in pilots discussing what may have happened and what we might learn from it and as long as people check their attitudes, it absolutely can be done without disrespecting either occupant of the aircraft.”

I would agree, except I have seen a lot of wild speculation during discussions of other accidents. Perhaps AOPA will do a McSpadden type early analysis of what MAY of happened, and what things the NTSB are LIKELY to look into. I’m sure he himself would appreciate that type of ”early” analysis.
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it will almost always be speculation even through the final investigation. unless there is a CVR and a FDR and video and audio and/or a survivor, we almost never REALLY know exactly what happened. the 'anti speculationists' drive me nutz. it is strictly conversation based on the very limited information we know. that is all we can do, and it is what we do, and MOST of it is good conversation. sure, people get crazy sometimes, but the conversations must be had, period. agreed, it's odd sometimes to see the things people throw out there. who cares, sift through the information and pick out the logical ideas that lead to potential lessons learned, even if they don't relate to the particular case at hand.
 
To a degree this reminds of Snort’s mishap in Idaho. Highly experienced dude bought the farm in a manner wholly inconceivable of someone with that experience. Facts are facts though, and reality is it happened.

Hopefully a contributing factor wasn’t due to something stupid like an iPad or other unsecured item providing an outsized impact to the mishap.

I will say between Snort and the Idaho Chinook mishaps, I’ve giving a LOT of thought to securing items in the aircraft vs removing unneeded items for the flight.
 
diabolical said:
I grew up with Richard and knew and respected him and his family. His dad started off his boys flying young at W88 and they both turned aviation into careers, and a way of life. They were all, pilot’s pilots! His dad was President of the Navion Society for years and his brother Cliff also had that love of old airplanes. Cliff flew barnstormer biplanes, old military (USAF) transport twins while also career flying transcontinental some of the biggest cargo planes in the world. His dad was an authority on old classic planes and always available with advice. His mom kept the family well-organized and was part of the glue and hub that made them such good people!Richard had some classic Air Force flying stories and really was so good at what he loved, Quick story: Richard managed to get to fly a fighter jet to our 10th high school reunion!!! He was stationed out west and managed to get lucky with a training flight to the East Coast! His mom and dad went down to pick him up at an Air Force base in South Carolina and bring him to Greensboro. He had style! He had some military stories that I won’t repeat here but suffice it to say, Richard was a pilot’s pilot! In later years when he joined up with AOPA he was able to try to help other pilots by objectively reviewing accidents and incidents in hopes of positively influencing and educating other pilots to learn from our mistakes. He was not one to look for the limelight even though he was often in it. A very humble man, well respected by those who knew him well, and one who wanted to share lessons learned for the betterment of all aviators. He will be missed in ways that only humble people are missed. Those whom had the opportunity to learn from him are much the better for it.
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diabolical said:
His family and his wingmen/women could say this so much better than I as he taught all those around him to improve aviation (and life) in a positive way. Farewell, blue-skies, and jet-stream tailwinds to you Richard; it’s been an honor to know you and to have learned from you and really respect how you managed to stay humble and “well-grounded” having accomplished all that you did in such a well-lived life!
Respectfully,
Gene
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Thank you for a well presented eulogy.

I always looked forward to seeing McSpadden's early analysis videos. His measured and methodical breakdown of mishaps were absolutely a benefit to all pilots. I hate that I'm writing of him in past tense.

Richard wrote the following earlier this year:

When a pilot perishes in an aircraft accident, suddenly—in an instant—they’re gone. They blast a hole in the lives of spouses, children, grandchildren, and close friends that can never be filled by anyone else. The mourners learn to cope with the loss, but they never get over it.

Our lives are just one of many influenced by the decisions we make in the cockpit, even when we fly solo.”

Rest easy, sir.
 
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I didn't see this yesterday, it's just making the local news today. It's a bit north of here. Yesterday was a beautiful day, which we haven't had a lot of in the past few weeks. Calm, sunny, just nice. Those pics of the recovery do more justice than the flat view Google earth pics. It's really pretty country up there, but pretty rugged. Flying over much of that area there's not much but trees to land in. Very sad.
 
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