Raptor Aircraft

[jaxcessnadriver]

Lower boost... couple of welded tanks an another tank that I use on my irrigation well... problem solved!! *sarcasm

 

[Racerx]

Those tanks had some ROUGH looking welds. The bungs looked decent, but the end caps looked like a mig...or a drunk monkey (maybe both) welded them up. Took 10 days for that product. Woof.

 

[steingar]

Back to taxi videos. Good. Far safer than actually flying that thing.

 

[Tantalum]

This guy honestly gets worse with each video. Each time I think "alright, we've hit the stupidity benchmark" and then along comes a new video

**from the graph below, which mind you is only 15 minutes at power, he somehow deduced that the engine will stabilize somewhere below 240 coolant temp and around 250 oil temp.. HOW?!??! (ignoring the fact that these are both unacceptably high temps)

That oil temp line is almost linear and the coolant temp line is following a gentle curve. A basic log plot has that coolant approaching 270. One can only guess how high the oil temp may get

**I also found it amazing that he did this test with the heater loop on

SO TO RECAP:
-you can fly the plane for no more than 15 minutes at high power setting
-you must fly the plane with the heater on
-we learned that adding coolant capacity does not actually make the coolant more effective, just buys time in how long it will take that coolant to heat up. Does Peter know that that same volume of coolant will be that much harder to cool and load the radiator that much more?
-he's added more weight to a plane that already seems woefully underpowered and well beyond it's target weights

Why this guy doesn't work on the intake, airflow, and larger/better radiator design is amazing. But I guess an 18 inch piece of string at the engine outlet dangling into the propeller has effectively shown him that there are no airflow issues

 

[Kenny Phillips]

It's been interesting, but I hope he doesn't screw the pooch on a test flight; I'd rather see it just ... parked.

 

[3393RP]

"I painted the tanks black so they would radiate more heat".

This is more comically inane "engineering" from Muller. I broke out in laughter when he said it.

 

[Salty]

"I painted the tanks black so they would radiate more heat".

This is more comically inane "engineering" from Muller. I broke out in laughter when he said it.

I refuse to believe anyone said that when sober (and meant it)

 

[Sierra_Hotel]

"I painted the tanks black so they would radiate more heat".

This is more comically inane "engineering" from Muller. I broke out in laughter when he said it.

 

[Rein Hart]

An actual flying car’s first flight looks more stable and safer than this raptor.

 

[kyleb]

"I painted the tanks black so they would radiate more heat".

This is more comically inane "engineering" from Muller. I broke out in laughter when he said it.

He's at the point where he's just "doing stuff". He hasn't made **** for progress in over a year, and continues down the path of putting ineffective fixes on major problems. At this rate, he's gonna die of old age before the project moves forward.

I really think he's at the point of realizing what a disaster this project is, but hasn't figure out how to gracefully walk away.

 

[Racerx]

He's at the point where he's just "doing stuff". He hasn't made **** for progress in over a year, and continues down the path of putting ineffective fixes on major problems. At this rate, he's gonna die of old age before the project moves forward.

I really think he's at the point of realizing what a disaster this project is, but hasn't figure out how to gracefully walk away.

So when people ask if it's a one man band and he says no, that hes got people in California trying to get things in order for production. We just assume that's total BS right? I agree the best thing he can do is walk away. He needs to ask himself what the goal of this aircraft is. Is the goal still to be pressurized, get it in the flight levels, cruise at 230kts, stall at 65kts, empty weight of 2300, gross of 3800, takeoff in 1100 feet, and burn 9 gph. If you look at whats in the hangar right now, I have no idea how the second aircraft can come anywhere close to any of those specs. Which is fine if the goal has changed. Goals often do.

 

[Tantalum]

So when people ask if it's a one man band and he says no, that hes got people in California trying to get things in order for production. We just assume that's total BS right? I agree the best thing he can do is walk away. He needs to ask himself what the goal of this aircraft is. Is the goal still to be pressurized, get it in the flight levels, cruise at 230kts, stall at 65kts, empty weight of 2300, gross of 3800, takeoff in 1100 feet, and burn 9 gph. If you look at whats in the hangar right now, I have no idea how the second aircraft can come anywhere close to any of those specs. Which is fine if the goal has changed. Goals often do.

I assumed that meant he exchanged a few emails with someone who did not immediately tell him to go pound sand

 

[kyleb]

So when people ask if it's a one man band and he says no, that hes got people in California trying to get things in order for production. We just assume that's total BS right?

Total BS? No way of knowing. He may have somebody looking at production options. But unless he can get it off the ground and demonstrate that the thing flies well and has the potential to hit reasonable performance goals (whatever they may be), I can't see anyone turning loose real money to put together a production effort.

 

[3393RP]

This is the first time I've ever seen a domestic hot water system expansion tank from the plumbing section of Home Depot installed on an aircraft.

Nowhere in the last few videos has Peter mentioned any calculations for flow velocity or pressure drop in the hoses feeding his coolant tanks, or the connection points to the engine cooling system and the pressure differential across them. Of course, this would also assume he has the knowledge to perform the required calculations.

As a result of this, he cannot make any determination of the effectiveness of his latest kludge. For those unfamiliar with that term, I've provided this definition. There's no word from Merriam-Webster if they intend to include a photo of the aircraft with the definition in their next update of the online product.

Kludge or kluge (/klʌdʒ, kluːdʒ/): a workaround or quick-and-dirty solution that is clumsy, inelegant, inefficient, difficult to extend and hard to maintain. This term is used in diverse fields such as computer science, aerospace engineering, Internet slang, evolutionary neuroscience, and government.

 

[kyleb]

This is the first time I've ever seen a domestic hot water system expansion tank from the plumbing section of Home Depot installed on an aircraft.

Its the missing link. Pretty soon, ALL aircraft will have expansion tanks from your local plumbing supplier.

 

[iamtheari]

Its the missing link. Pretty soon, ALL aircraft will have expansion tanks from your local plumbing supplier.

The airplane is officially pressurized. Not the cabin, of course. Just the three-tier coolant expansion tank system. But he promised a pressurized airplane and he delivered a pressurized airplane.

 

[Racerx]

The airplane is officially pressurized. Not the cabin, of course. Just the three-tier coolant expansion tank system. But he promised a pressurized airplane and he delivered a pressurized airplane.

All he needs is a stanley bostitch pancake compressor with an outside air inlet. Boom pressurized.

 

[Blatham489]

"I painted the tanks black so they would radiate more heat".

This is more comically inane "engineering" from Muller. I broke out in laughter when he said it.

I'm not a fan by any stretch, but he's actually right on this point. Black does in fact radiate heat better. There is science behind the fact that car radiators are painted black.

 

[iamtheari]

I'm not a fan by any stretch, but he's actually right on this point. Black does in fact radiate heat better. There is science behind the fact that car radiators are painted black.

I don’t see that as his mistake. It’s true that the black tanks might radiate heat better than an unpainted tank. But they are going to radiate that heat into the confined space of the nose of the airplane. He will gain seconds or maybe a couple of minutes of usable engine power, but after that he will just have more total heat energy trapped in the closed loop of an overheating engine. In order to actually conduct a test flight program, he needs a power plant that can operate at flying power levels for hours on end, not single-digit minutes.

 

[3393RP]

I'm not a fan by any stretch, but he's actually right on this point. Black does in fact radiate heat better. There is science behind the fact that car radiators are painted black.

It's comical because they're going to radiate a completely insignificant amount of heat as the oil temp soars past 250°. The difference between painted and unpainted is so miniscule it's pointless. He's just polishing a turd.

With a few modifications, he could make a tortilla warmer in the nose of the aircraft. Then the tanks would be accomplishing something.

 

[FastEddieB]

I'm not a fan by any stretch, but he's actually right on this point. Black does in fact radiate heat better. There is science behind the fact that car radiators are painted black.

True. But more surface area, via fins, is what would really dissipate the heat. But that would be a radiator, right?

One or more small radiators in the nose would help. They’d need airflow, which creates more drag. Plus, as mentioned, the added weight. And the added failure points with all the hoses and paraphernalia needed to run the coolant back and forth to the nose.

And I agree the box store expansion tank is emblematic of this whole project going off the rails. It’s the kind of thing I might consider, which is never a good sign!

 

[david.h]

So what happens when he has catastrophic coolant leak? Loss of power and possible major shift of the CG aft when those nose tanks bleed dry--sounds like a "great" position to be in.

 

[painless]

His “fixes” are starting to look like something Dr. Seuss would do.

 

[OneCharlieTango]

His “fixes” are starting to look like something Dr. Seuss would do.

The plane would not fly
It was much much too fat.
He said "I'll add more power
to take care of that."

He didn't care for cooling,
So the thing got quite hot.
Three hundred degrees!
My, my, that's a lot!

Down the runway he ran
Stuck to tarmac, like glue.
But then what should happen --
Big surprise! He FLEW!

Wobbling up off the ground,
Flying, not like a bird.
It soon became clear:
This thing is a turd.

He got the plane down,
Taxied up to the chocks.
Poor pilot's knees
Continued to knock.

What will be next?
No one yet knows.
Perhaps plane improvements
From somewhere like Lowe's.

 

[3393RP]

The plane would not fly
It was much much too fat.
He said "I'll add more power
to take care of that."

He didn't care for cooling,
So the thing got quite hot.
Three hundred degrees!
My, my, that's a lot!

Down the runway he ran
Stuck to tarmac, like glue.
But then what should happen --
Big surprise! He FLEW!

Wobbling up off the ground,
Flying, not like a bird.
It soon became clear:
This thing is a turd.

He got the plane down,
Taxied up to the chocks.
Poor pilot's knees
Continued to knock.

What will be next?
No one yet knows.
Perhaps plane improvements
From somewhere like Lowe's.

This is quite the entertaining bit of whimsical verse. Well done!

 

[iamtheari]

So what happens when he has catastrophic coolant leak? Loss of power and possible major shift of the CG aft when those nose tanks bleed dry--sounds like a "great" position to be in.

You're right. It's going to leak anyhow, so why even stick with a closed loop? What he should be doing is converting one of the fuel tanks to a coolant reservoir, which will then pass through the engine cooling circuit and then get dumped overboard. No radiator, pressure tank, or leaky plumbing required. He designed the airplane perfectly so the CG range with a full tank vs an empty tank will not be a problem. The range will go down from 3600+ nm to 1800+, but that's still plenty. You just have to remember to put Prestone in the left tank and #1 diesel in the right tank when you fill up.

 

[midwestpa24]

You're right. It's going to leak anyhow, so why even stick with a closed loop? What he should be doing is converting one of the fuel tanks to a coolant reservoir, which will then pass through the engine cooling circuit and then get dumped overboard. No radiator, pressure tank, or leaky plumbing required. He designed the airplane perfectly so the CG range with a full tank vs an empty tank will not be a problem. The range will go down from 3600+ nm to 1800+, but that's still plenty. You just have to remember to put Prestone in the left tank and #1 diesel in the right tank when you fill up.

Careful, that sounds like the kind of advice he'd take.

Since refunded the deposits in escrow, I beginning to think he is a genius. I wouldn't be surprised if he's making more profit from his Youtube channel than he ever would selling airplane kits. Its more entertaining than a lot of things on tv.

 

[schmookeeg]

You're right. It's going to leak anyhow, so why even stick with a closed loop? What he should be doing is converting one of the fuel tanks to a coolant reservoir, which will then pass through the engine cooling circuit and then get dumped overboard. No radiator, pressure tank, or leaky plumbing required. He designed the airplane perfectly so the CG range with a full tank vs an empty tank will not be a problem. The range will go down from 3600+ nm to 1800+, but that's still plenty. You just have to remember to put Prestone in the left tank and #1 diesel in the right tank when you fill up.

In my worst shower-thoughts engineering moments, I've considered whether or not you could use fuel as a coolant in conjunction with a small coolant loop in the engine, the large wing leading edge to radiate heat via wet wing and return-fuel spray bar, and just send like 5x the fuel volume to the engine, draw heat via a water-to-water heat exchanger, and return warmer unused fuel to the tank.

My thoughts are the engine is under most stress on takeoff, when fuel is coldest and most plentiful.

Then I read about the need for nitrogen inerting and autoignition temperatures, and I'm thinking.. nah, let someone else do this stuff. I'll armchair quarterback them instead

 

[Seanaldinho]

Careful, that sounds like the kind of advice he'd take.

Since refunded the deposits in escrow, I beginning to think he is a genius. I wouldn't be surprised if he's making more profit from his Youtube channel than he ever would selling airplane kits. Its more entertaining than a lot of things on tv.

How many views is he averaging?

I heard somewhere a good rule of thumb is a youtuber makes 5 grand on a video with 1 million views.

 

[Racerx]

In my worst shower-thoughts engineering moments, I've considered whether or not you could use fuel as a coolant in conjunction with a small coolant loop in the engine, the large wing leading edge to radiate heat via wet wing and return-fuel spray bar, and just send like 5x the fuel volume to the engine, draw heat via a water-to-water heat exchanger, and return warmer unused fuel to the tank.

My thoughts are the engine is under most stress on takeoff, when fuel is coldest and most plentiful.

Then I read about the need for nitrogen inerting and autoignition temperatures, and I'm thinking.. nah, let someone else do this stuff. I'll armchair quarterback them instead

Didn't Peter way back want to us fuel as coolant when he was putting the engine together?

 

[donjohnston]

How many views is he averaging?

I heard somewhere a good rule of thumb is a youtuber makes 5 grand on a video with 1 million views.

Doesn't look like he's ever come close to that. Most are between 14,000 and 25,000 views. Best ever is 165,000.

I read somewhere how they determine monetization. I don't remember all the details but the number of subscribers is a factor. 100,000 is number that significantly increase the money per video. Currently he's sitting at 23,000 subscribers.

So I don't think he's making a lot on the videos.

 

[nauga]

In my worst shower-thoughts engineering moments, I've considered whether or not you could use fuel as a coolant in conjunction with a small coolant loop in the engine...

It's already been done and IIRC is in regular use in some airplanes. Fuel is also used as a hydraulic fluid in things like afterburner nozzles.

Didn't Peter way back want to us fuel as coolant when he was putting the engine together?

It's unfortunate that some ideas that might actually have some basis in reality get trashed in the rush to pile on.

Nauga,
transferring some heat

 

[schmookeeg]

It's already been done and IIRC is in regular use in some airplanes. Fuel is also used as a hydraulic fluid in things like afterburner nozzles.

It's unfortunate that some ideas that might actually have some basis in reality get trashed in the rush to pile on.

Nauga,
transferring some heat

Well, huh. I guess I need to take showers more often.

I'll also need to start taking deposits on my new C-raptor homebuilt plane. My calculations modestly suggest it will do M0.8, generate 6gph of fuel in flight, and maintain a 9psi cabin on the strength of my proven aerospace technology ideas.

 

[jsstevens]

Didn't the SR-71 use fuel as a coolant in the wing surfaces to handle air friction heat at Mach 2+?

 

[kyleb]

It's already been done and IIRC is in regular use in some airplanes. Fuel is also used as a hydraulic fluid in things like afterburner nozzles.

It's unfortunate that some ideas that might actually have some basis in reality get trashed in the rush to pile on.

Nauga,
transferring some heat

The idea ain’t bad, but it is kinda hard to execute in a fiberglass aero plane. IIRC, Peter IS using fuel as a heat sink for one of his systems (maybe an intercooler ?). Not sure how that’s gonna work as the fuel runs low.

 

[Tantalum]

It's not that his ideas are outright bad, a lot of them are clever and I'm the first person to welcome technological advancements into our aircraft or some ingenuity into the design

What kills me is the follow through on his ideas and his general approach to the world

The fact that he's alienated everybody from his circle speaks volumes to that, he goes and flies this airplane (if we ignore everything else it's frankly quite amazing that someone went and designed and built a completely novel aircraft with a new power plant and managed to get it airborne) and he doesn't have a single person waiting for him back at the hangar!! WTF??

 

[Tantalum]

Well, huh. I guess I need to take showers more often.

I'll also need to start taking deposits on my new C-raptor homebuilt plane. My calculations modestly suggest it will do M0.8, generate 6gph of fuel in flight, and maintain a 9psi cabin on the strength of my proven aerospace technology ideas.

I'm assuming it will have a conservative cruising altitude around FL650

 

[Tantalum]

shower-thoughts engineering

I have lots of these however that's where the difference lies between successful people and non-successful people. You can take these ideas, cultivate a good team of skilled people around it and actually generate something competent.. or you can sit by yourself in a lonely hanger and press ahead based on nothing more than dubious thought exercise

 

[Velocity173]

In my worst shower-thoughts engineering moments, I've considered whether or not you could use fuel as a coolant in conjunction with a small coolant loop in the engine, the large wing leading edge to radiate heat via wet wing and return-fuel spray bar, and just send like 5x the fuel volume to the engine, draw heat via a water-to-water heat exchanger, and return warmer unused fuel to the tank.

My thoughts are the engine is under most stress on takeoff, when fuel is coldest and most plentiful.

Then I read about the need for nitrogen inerting and autoignition temperatures, and I'm thinking.. nah, let someone else do this stuff. I'll armchair quarterback them instead

The GE-700 turbine series use a liquid to liquid cooler in addition to the normal oil cooler. The fuel cools the oil and the oil heats the fuel for better atomization. Not sure if it’ll do any good in the Raptor’s case though. Thing has some serious cooling issues.

 

[Tantalum]

a few more steel tanks filled with coolant spray painted black placed throughout the aircraft ought to help with the coolant issues