<Rant> Please announce your intentions in English for us mortal VFR pilots</Rant>

Bill Jennings said:
I usually just wait until I'm on the inbound final course and start announcing distance.

"BS6969 is on a six mile final for RY23"
"BS6969 is on a five mile final for RY23"
"BS6969 is on a four mile final for RY23"

yadda yadda yadda
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Yep, I'll usually at some point reference that I'm inbound on the localizer approach, straight in RWY23. That way the VFR guys know that I'm at least on an approach and not just being a weenus entering the pattern on a long final.
 
Huge pet peeve here. Make calls that any pilot will understand.
I personally use direction and distance from airport. Xyz traffic, Archer 83U, 10 miles to the Northwest to land, xyz.

I was flying with a friend the other day and he was telling me all the reporting points for the airport he was learning at and I spent the time explaining that those points mean nothing to a transient pilot. So even though the controller and other local pilots may know where he is, the people with the least local knowledge are left in the dark.

It is even worse for IFR guys. If you are on an approach, you aren’t talking to other IFR traffic. You are talking guys flying with vfr sectionals in vfr conditions and you are reporting IFR waypoints. Worthless. You just wasted radio air time.
 
mscard88 said:
What would you expect a military to say differently?
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The abusers of this are rarely military.

Oddly, I've flown out a number of mixed use and even one completely military field, and you don't run into this arrogance. It's almost always miltary wannabees mixing it up with the rest of the traffic. If you're 1000' 3 miles south of the field say that.

You might want to read that section in the AIM again on overheard procedures. It's not something designed for barging into VFR patterns at uncontrolled fields.
 
flyingron said:
The abusers of this are rarely military.

Oddly, I've flown out a number of mixed use and even one completely military field, and you don't run into this arrogance. It's almost always miltary wannabees mixing it up with the rest of the traffic. If you're 1000' 3 miles south of the field say that.

You might want to read that section in the AIM again on overheard procedures. It's not something designed for barging into VFR patterns at uncontrolled fields.
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I explained that I thought from the post that he was referring to military pilots. He corrected me and I acknowledges I misunderstood his post. If you're telling me I need to read the AIM about OH patterns, I was an Air Force controller at many bases and don't need to educate myself on OH patterns, especially since one base I was assigned had over 130 fighters on the field. I know a thing or three about OH patterns.
 
mscard88 said:
I explained that I thought from the post that he was referring to military pilots. He corrected me and I acknowledges I misunderstood his post. If you're telling me I need to read the AIM about OH patterns, I was an Air Force controller at many bases and don't need to educate myself on OH patterns, especially since one base I was assigned had over 130 fighters on the field. I know a thing or three about OH patterns.
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OH....... see what I did there?

What is OH pattern?
 
Pick any weekend around my home drome and the air is thick with IFR pilots practicing approaches, a VOR on one end and a RNAV with HILPT on the other. Probably more of them than vfr guys poking holes in the air. I'd sooner have them tell me "UNYTS inbound" then "10 to the NW" when I'm on the feeder route under the hood heading for UNYTS to enter the hold.
 
Kritchlow said:
But if you don't understand the lingo.....
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It doesn't do much good to tell individual pilots to learn IFR terms if the FAA is not requiring it to be taught to student pilots. As an IFR pilot, I consider it in my own best interest to make position reports that can be understood by all the other pilots on the frequency, including the ones who haven't had IFR training.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Pick any weekend around my home drome and the air is thick with IFR pilots practicing approaches, a VOR on one end and a RNAV with HILPT on the other. Probably more of them than vfr guys poking holes in the air. I'd sooner have them tell me "UNYTS inbound" then "10 to the NW" when I'm on the feeder route under the hood heading for UNYTS to enter the hold.
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I've seen this often on this thread. But out here I'd still be taking to approach until I made the inbound turn and they would already have advised me someone just left the hold. Some places(San Diego) you wouldn't have a choice on practice approaches, but even in the hinterlands of central California or Oregon everyone still talks to approach/center for their practice approaches.
 
Palmpilot said:
It doesn't do much good to tell individual pilots to learn IFR terms if the FAA is not requiring it to be taught to student pilots. As an IFR pilot, I consider it in my own best interest to make position reports that can be understood by all the other pilots on the frequency, including the ones who haven't had IFR training.
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I’m not sure where we are in disagreement other than I feel it’s a good idea to familiarize oneself with some of the terminology.
 
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
 
teejayevans said:
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
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Is it possible that there may two Mooneys in the area? Type and last three for me.
 
teejayevans said:
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
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That might be OK for a Mooney, but many times there will be more than one Cessna or more than one Skyhawk in the pattern. A lot of pilots add the color, but then you have the problem that a large number of Cessnas look white until you get too close for comfort.
 
Kritchlow said:
I’m not sure where we are in disagreement other than I feel it’s a good idea to familiarize oneself with some of the terminology.
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Perhaps I misunderstood.
 
teejayevans said:
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
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Some sort of FCC requirement. AIM examples use tail number as well.
 
teejayevans said:
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
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Go somewhere where E-R trains and just say "Skyhawk entering downwind", when there are 5 Skyhawks in the pattern already...
 
teejayevans said:
I noticed y’all using tail numbers, I was taught to just say type, “xyz traffic , Mooney 8 miles west, xyz”. You should not be close enough to read tail numbers.
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Unless it's the DEA.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
the reporting points
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Some reporting points are listed on sectionals, at least, the VFR ones. What bothers me more is when there are reporting points that are not even on the sectional.. and still used by ATC

There a video of a VFR guy going into Las Vegas BRAVO (topic for another thread) and ATC was giving him vectors based on local landmarks that were not (at least I could not find them) depicted on the charts. Mr.VFR held it together relatively well I thought
 
Tantalum said:
Some reporting points are listed on sectionals, at least, the VFR ones. What bothers me more is when there are reporting points that are not even on the sectional.. and still used by ATC

There a video of a VFR guy going into Las Vegas BRAVO (topic for another thread) and ATC was giving him vectors based on local landmarks that were not (at least I could not find them) depicted on the charts. Mr.VFR held it together relatively well I thought
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Just tell ATC you're not familiar with them and they won't expect you to use them.
 
mscard88 said:
Just tell ATC you're not familiar with them and they won't expect you to use them.
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Yeah but then I won't look like an airline pro.. I'll just be that guy in the Cherokee who's unfamiliar

jk... I've used the "76V is unfamiliar" before, but it does feel good to also say "yes, 76V is familiar with the Perris Valley jump zone" (for example)
 
teejayevans said:
Imagine how close you have to be to read the tail number.
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It's not the number that matters. It's the differentiation between aircraft calling. Five cezznas calling as cezznas is unmanageable. Five aircraft calling as unique identifiers and you can build a mental picture of positions.
 
Palmpilot said:
It doesn't do much good to tell individual pilots to learn IFR terms if the FAA is not requiring it to be taught to student pilots. As an IFR pilot, I consider it in my own best interest to make position reports that can be understood by all the other pilots on the frequency, including the ones who haven't had IFR training.
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I was taught that as well.
 
Tantalum said:
Yeah but then I won't look like an airline pro.. I'll just be that guy in the Cherokee who's unfamiliar

jk... I've used the "76V is unfamiliar" before, but it does feel good to also say "yes, 76V is familiar with the Perris Valley jump zone" (for example)
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I often hear pro pilots flying FedEx calling approach and telling them it's been a while I have been here, requesting vectors to final. I was going to do that when I went to another towered field, but they offered me vectors before I asked...so it's cool

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
teejayevans said:
Imagine how close you have to be to read the tail number.
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You don't have to be able to read the tail numbers to know that there is more than one Cessna in the pattern when you hear them announcing more than one tail number.
 
I'm instrument rated. That said, if I'm not familiar with the environment around a particular airport (or haven't flown instruments in quite a while - reality here) I have no more idea what these intersections or anything else might be. I do know how far out from the airport I am (sort of) and what direction from the airport you need to go to find me (within 20-40 degrees). Speak VFR, please. The life you save may be your own.
 
mscard88 said:
OK, I thought you were talking about military. I see your point.
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Your confusion is easy to understand - "formation jockey" is nonstandard phraseology and ambiguous. ;)

Nauga,
popeye
 
mscard88 said:
Just tell ATC you're not familiar with them and they won't expect you to use them.
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Two days ago going VFR into San Jose the controller asked me to fly to the “pruneyard” my immediate response was “unfamiliar with the area can I get vectors” and he went on some 30 second rant asking if I had a sectional blah blah by the time he was done with his rant I was able to pull my phone out of my pocket, load up foreflight, search for schoolyard, trainyard, realize it was pruneyard, load it into the gtn 750 and able to respond that I found it. When all he had to do was say fly present heading. Everything down there all looks the same. On the east side of San Jose they use Embassy Suites... how the F am I suppose to spot a hotel in the middle of a city?

I get it. I should be aware of all the waypoints and stuff going into an airport, but a place like San Jose knowing all those places is ridiculous and spotting them is like where’s Waldo when you are a transient.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Two days ago going VFR into San Jose the controller asked me to fly to the “pruneyard” my immediate response was “unfamiliar with the area can I get vectors” and he went on some 30 second rant asking if I had a sectional blah blah by the time he was done with his rant I was able to pull my phone out of my pocket, load up foreflight, search for schoolyard, trainyard, realize it was pruneyard, load it into the gtn 750 and able to respond that I found it. When all he had to do was say fly present heading. Everything down there all looks the same. On the east side of San Jose they use Embassy Suites... how the F am I suppose to spot a hotel in the middle of a city?

I get it. I should be aware of all the waypoints and stuff going into an airport, but a place like San Jose knowing all those places is ridiculous and spotting them is like where’s Waldo when you are a transient.
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Agree the controller should have given you a vector. Trying to prove a point maybe, but I don't see it or understand why the controller was being a prick. I would have just vectored you and be done with it.
 
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I don't mean to sound smug, and I apologize if this has been said already, but if you're at a pilot controlled field, and you don't know someone's intentions, just ask them to clarify. To me, the beauty of uncontrolled fields is that I get to speak directly to the other pilots. If something ain't clear, holla back, and get it straight.

"Lindsay Traffic, Cirrus 1234, something something ILS, something something RNAV, will execute something something missed approach"

"Lindsay Traffic, Skylane 3323Y is left downwind for One Niner, Cirrus on approach, can you repeat that in English"
 
OK, listening to 122.7 I heard at least two people report "over the hospital" coming in to Toledo Suburban (DUH). I don't see no hospital on the chart, so I assume they were worried about their landing?
 
OkieFlyer said:
I don't mean to sound smug, and I apologize if this has been said already, but if you're at a pilot controlled field, and you don't know someone's intentions, just ask them to clarify. To me, the beauty of uncontrolled fields is that I get to speak directly to the other pilots. If something ain't clear, holla back, and get it straight.

"Lindsay Traffic, Cirrus 1234, something something ILS, something something RNAV, will execute something something missed approach"

"Lindsay Traffic, Skylane 3323Y is left downwind for One Niner, Cirrus on approach, can you repeat that in English"
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I specifically said I don't know what procedure turn is, say intentions. Got the same will do procedure turn reply. Think the cirrus drives skipped the VFR cert

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