Publication using my pictures

GMascelli

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GaryM
While thumbing through a recent flying publication I noticed a picture that looked very familiar. Sure enough it was a photo I took while in flight.

I would think they would at least ask permission or provide acknowledgement in a publication. I sent them an email just to see where it goes. We shall see.
 
I would think they would at least ask permission or provide acknowledgement in a publication.
Did you ever give permission to use photo for another use or "give" photo to someone else prior?
 
Did you ever give permission to use photo for another use or "give" photo to someone else prior?

No, did not give permission or pass along the photo to another person. The person that wrote the article just used it from my blog, an easy peasy copy & paste. I had taken the photo in 2011, and I just noticed it in a June issue of the publication I read.
 
The person that wrote the article just used it from my blog,
Well don't be surprised if the author claims Fair Use. It's one way a person can use your published material without permission. I've been there. There are minimums they have to abide by. But maybe they'll just give you credit for the pic. Curious to see how they respond.
 
Don’t think they can use it for commercial purposes without your permission. But, I’m no law expert. Aviation expert, yes.
 
The other day on YouTube, I saw a video that led off with a clip of a video I'd done! I was more surprised than bothered.
 
I’m not a lawyer. The below is my understanding from my own reading. It’s only worth what you paid for it.

______________

It isn’t legal for them to use it without your permission. People over on POTN post about this fairly frequently. Best you can do is send a cease and desist letter. It probably isn’t worth a full lawsuit as you would be spending more on the lawyer than you could expect to get.

Sending the cease and desist may make them second-guess stealing other people’s work.

Most people don’t understand copyright law and think if something is posted on the web it is free for them to steal (it isn’t).
 
Welcome to the FaceBook age, where people think that anything posted on the internet is free for all to use.
Congrats on the publication, though. :cool:
 
I am a bit surprised that a print media aviation pub would do it. It does seem more like what someone with a facebook page, blog, tweeter, or other web page would do. Which publication was it and which page?
 
I am a bit surprised that a print media aviation pub would do it. It does seem more like what someone with a facebook page, blog, tweeter, or other web page would do. Which publication was it and which page?

Yeah, that’s good. They have money to pay him to commercially license his photo. Maybe enough to fill the tanks of that beautiful new Commander!

https://www.photoattorney.com/
 
I have had a few examples of my photos taken by other aviation publications as well from here on POA no less, back when I posted the 100LL / Jet A contamination thread. Never went much farther into it though since it was good info to spread.
 
I totally stole my avatar from a yachtworld ad because I thought it was hilarious, helicopter on a 42'(?) Trawler. I've never owned a chopper, but wife and I did live on a sailboat and then a trawler for a while.
 
While thumbing through a recent flying publication I noticed a picture that looked very familiar. Sure enough it was a photo I took while in flight.

I would think they would at least ask permission or provide acknowledgement in a publication. I sent them an email just to see where it goes. We shall see.

So we gonna get to see it. Copy and paste it from their publication.
 
Garry, did you ever store that picture on Google or another site that claims rights to any material you store there?

That's why I don't store my stuff on Google or similar sites. If I did ever make a good picture, I'm sure they would appropriate it immediately. ;-)
 
So when you copy and paste,your own photo. The publication will probably sue you.
This brings up a good point. If you don’t at least send a cease and desist, you’re setting precedent that the photograph is public domain and ok to be treated as such in the future.
 
This brings up a good point. If you don’t at least send a cease and desist, you’re setting precedent that the photograph is public domain and ok to be treated as such in the future.

And you're giving the publication a pass when they stole your work, which means they're more likely to continue doing it to other people. It would be interesting to scan the other images in the publication and do a reverse image lookup to see how many others appear around the web. Obviously you wouldn't be able to prove they stole the other ones, unless you contacted the photographers. But it would be interesting to see if it seemed like there was a chance that it was indicative of more widespread abuses.

The publications probably wouldn't steal an essay someone wrote online or in a book and publish that without permission. Why do they think its ok to take photos? It's just as wrong.
 
The picture is not that great to begin with. It was taken in IMC on the way home from Ithaca NY to Wilmington DE, somewhere over KABE Allentown PA. Mary and I were returning home from BACFest 2011

I haven't received a return email yet, so we shall see what happens. Worst case I'll call out the author of the article and see where that goes.

IMC near ABE.jpg
 
My layman's understanding (based on consultation with IP lawyers and personal experience) is that almost anything that anyone creates is copyrighted as of the moment of creation. Enforcing the copyright, however, requires additional steps, including valid copyright notices and registration of the copyright.

Actually collecting damages also requires a finding that a reasonable person coming across that content would know or have reason to know that the content was copyrighted, and used it anyway. If the source from which they obtained the content represented it as being in the public domain or usable under a public license (Creative Commons, for example); or if the secondary source misrepresented themselves to the alleged infringer as owning the copyright and granting permission; or if the image was made available under terms that were too vague; then all the legitimate owner is likely to collect is the cost of a license to use a substantially similar photo from a stock photo site.

One company has made a cottage industry of threatening to sue people who used copyrighted photos that have been distributed far and wide on the Interwebs. In almost all cases, the alleged infringers had reason to believe they were using the pictures legally, either because the pictures were represented as being in the public domain; because the photographers had listed the pictures on other stock sites and simply had forgotten; or occasionally because the alleged infringer purchased "rights" to the pictures from entities who did not themselves own those rights.

In any of those cases, the most the actual copyright owner or agent could reasonably expect to collect were push to come to shove would be the rights value of a substantially similar stock photo. If the rights to the picture were purchased from an agency that once handled rights to that picture, even if they no longer do, then the photographer can collect nothing.

I've been on both sides of this battle. I've had so many stock pictures infringed that I don't even bother sending out nastygrams anymore. I just assume that anything that goes on the Web will eventually be infringed. It's not worth the hassle and cost of litigation for the few dollars I might collect. If the alleged (or even actual) infringer pulls up a substantially similar picture with a license fee of $6.37 on some microstock site, getting anything more than $6.37 out of them is exceedingly unlikely barring intentionality of the most grotesque sort.

I've also been threatened with lawsuits by stock companies for pictures that I legitimately bought from other stock companies. Lots of times photographers simply forget that they licensed the picture to multiple companies. Other times they lie about it when the company that pays best wants exclusive rights to the picture (for example, for a book cover illustration). The photographers just pull the images from the other companies and hope that no one who already bought rights is targeted by the company that now has the exclusive (which would severely damage or perhaps even terminate their relationship with that agency once the target proves that the rights were purchased through another agency).

What it comes down to is that you own the copyright: but your chances of collecting anything beyond what a substantially similar photo would command on the stock photo market are basically zilch. And that's assuming that your publication of it included copyright notices and that you registered the copyright. Infringement cases are almost never actionable at all if those two requirements haven't been met.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a person who has been through both sides of copyright battles for the past 20 or so years. None of them have resulted in my getting anything more than an apology and a Starbucks gift card or something along those lines. Neither have I ever paid so much as a penny for infringement alleged against me because I have receipts for every picture for which I ever purchased usage rights.

In summary, alleging infringement is easy. Proving infringement is also easy in most cases. Collecting on infringement, not so much.

Rich
 
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I’m not looking to collect anything, not worth the hassle. I just wanted to let the publication know they need to acknowledge the source, at the very least.
 
I’m not looking to collect anything, not worth the hassle. I just wanted to let the publication know they need to acknowledge the source, at the very least.
I saw one of my photos on a billboard. If the city had been nice when I asked about it, maybe even said they were sorry, I would have been happy to let them use it free. When they mouthed off to me, I got a lawyer. It was worth it. It became the most expensive photo I ever sold!!
 
Actually collecting damages also requires a finding that a reasonable person coming across that content would know or have reason to know that the content was copyrighted, and used it anyway.

A magazine publisher who's been doing this for a while should know better. They are a much easier target.

What it comes down to is that you own the copyright: but your chances of collecting anything beyond what a substantially similar photo would command on the stock market are basically zilch. And that's assuming that your publication of it included copyright notices and that you registered the copyright. Infringement cases are almost never actionable at all if those two requirements haven't been met.

I don't think this is correct. Since photos are copyrighted the moment they are created, infringement is infringement, even if the above two items haven't happened. I think if a photo has not been registered with the copyright office prior to original publication, a photographer is not entitled to certain punitive damages (and hence can only recover the going rate on similar photos). Including a copyright notice in the photo is not required to obtain or keep copyright ownership. However, including a copyright watermark on any photo posted to the internet is an excellent idea. Cropping that baby out is basically an automatic "yeah you knew what you were doing and are going to get slapped hard by a judge". Seen plenty of stories like this in the legal section on POTN.

Again, I'm not a lawyer.

Same here. Just took a keen interest in licensing issues several years ago.
 
I’m not looking to collect anything, not worth the hassle. I just wanted to let the publication know they need to acknowledge the source, at the very least.

Just ask for 20 gals of 100LL. Ethical pro publications who know better may cut you a check for a photo license, and maybe retrain the low-level employee who did it so it doesn't happen again, all without going to court.
 
I don't feed lawyers, as a rule. I formerly owned a pro photography studio, and caught several folks using my images. (Norway's public TV system paid me for use; they sent me a 50 kroner note!) But it's nearly impossible to come out ahead in a tiny suit that would not produce much in damages. Mostly I just took care of it with strategic shaming.
 
A magazine publisher who's been doing this for a while should know better. They are a much easier target.

One would think, anyway. If they lifted the picture directly from a blog, at a minimum they'd contact the blog owner. I get those kinds of emails all the time, usually for pictures that I find quite unremarkable, but which happen to be perfect for someone else's needs. I routinely grant permission unless I've listed the picture on a stock site, in which case I refer them to the stock company to avoid them being targeted for infringement.

However, the fact that the magazine didn't bother doing this suggests that they got the picture elsewhere. That also happens all the time and is almost always innocent error when a reputable publisher does it.

I don't think this is correct. Since photos are copyrighted the moment they are created, infringement is infringement, even if the above two items haven't happened. I think if a photo has not been registered with the copyright office prior to original publication, a photographer is not entitled to certain punitive damages (and hence can only recover the going rate on similar photos). Including a copyright notice in the photo is not required to obtain or keep copyright ownership. However, including a copyright watermark on any photo posted to the internet is an excellent idea. Cropping that baby out is basically an automatic "yeah you knew what you were doing and are going to get slapped hard by a judge". Seen plenty of stories like this in the legal section on POTN.

Legally, you're probably right. Practically speaking, my IP lawyer told me years ago not to even call him if the copyright to the content hasn't been registered. Pursuing such cases are, apparently, a waste of his time.

Rich
 
I don't feed lawyers, as a rule. I formerly owned a pro photography studio, and caught several folks using my images. (Norway's public TV system paid me for use; they sent me a 50 kroner note!) But it's nearly impossible to come out ahead in a tiny suit that would not produce much in damages. Mostly I just took care of it with strategic shaming.

In this country we have Small Claims Court, for cases less than $5,000.00 (?) No lawyer required.
Sort of like Judge Judy without TV cameras.
I've used it a couple of times, with good results.
 
The SPA did that with one of my pictures. It was a misunderstanding on their part. A third party had given them the shots representing that they were his.

I disagree with your lawyer. We send out cease and desist and even demand letters with registration all the time.

There are two things you can't do without registration. First, you can't actually pursue it in court. Of course, all you need to do is register it. The more important thing you missed out on registration is statutory damages when the infringement predates the registration.
 
I think if a photo has not been registered with the copyright office prior to original publication, a photographer is not entitled to certain punitive damages (and hence can only recover the going rate on similar photos). Including a copyright notice in the photo is not required to obtain or keep copyright ownership. However, including a copyright watermark on any photo posted to the internet is an excellent idea. Cropping that baby out is basically an automatic "yeah you knew what you were doing and are going to get slapped hard by a judge".

I have copyright information in the data of the photo. I don't put it on the front of my photos though. You can sue for use of the photo, and in my case, I claimed damage to my reputation. Most people here who have reached out to me to use my photos will tell you the first thing I do is tell you not to use one from the internet. I'll send you a full-sized original with higher resolution. I had a magazine use my photos once, and they looked terrible. They cropped them and they were blurry. I was mad my name was on them... one time I didn't want credit. Unfortunately, it was an idiot friend of mine who wrote the story and told the magazine he had permission to use them.
 
My origami designs have been stolen and misattributed so many times as to be laughable. I've seen my models grace the covers of books by others. My published copyrighted books are often available for free on the internet. And I'm not one of the better known authors. I can't imagine how bad it is for them.'

All that said, life is too short of that much negative emotion.
 
You may think that the photo is a throwaway, but the fact that a major publication used it shows that it has considerable value. Look at the other photos in the publication; Many of them cost lots of $$$ to obtain.

"Acknowledgement" is not good enough when using a photo without permission (fair use excepted). If I heard you play a song you wrote, and I stole it and made a successful single out of it, would it be enough for me to say "Oh by the way, thanks Gary!" at every concert?

Here's a long watch, but interesting. Short version: Five figure payouts are not unusual in cases of stolen photos. Companies need to respect copyright.


I'm not saying a major lawsuit is the appropriate action here, but this is a big deal that the publication needs to know about. As an occasional content creator myself, I try to respect copyright and make sure that others respect mine. The myth that something is free or can be used with credit just because it's on the Internet unfortunately continues to persist ("Look at all the exposure you're getting!").
 
Many years ago I was instructing out of Boeing Field. At the Time Boeing was making hydrofoil boats, and two of them were cruising along at high speed together.

My student had a camera and I suggested that the Seattle times would pay for a picture, AND would he like to split the payment. Then I maneuvered the airplane to the very best altitude, angle, and attitude and even told him when to "snap."

The times did buy the picture, but the student told be to pound sand.

Note: The picture of Bob Hoover in my avatar was made by me and if you want to use it, go ahead..............send gas money!!
 
You may think that the photo is a throwaway, but the fact that a major publication used it shows that it has considerable value. Look at the other photos in the publication; Many of them cost lots of $$$ to obtain.
I think people don't value the cost of a photo. After all, it's digital, so how much does it cost me to take a photo? In my case, I have probably close to $15K in equipment now, the cost of flying a plane, the cost of the photo pilot, etc.

The best example I've ever seen of a publication respecting my rights is the Cessna Owner/Piper Owner group that I work with now. @GaryV sent Cessna Owner a photo I took of his plane for their calendar. He had my permission to send it. They called me anyway! They wanted to make sure it was okay, and they liked my work so much it turned into a job for me.
 
There is no longer a requirement to MARK anything to obtain copyright in the US. You may do so to put others on notice, but it's not required.

How much it costs to make an image doesn't set the value of it. Even when I shot film, we were only talking a buck or two per image. The issue is how much the creative effort is worth and how much you're depriving the creator of revenue when you just steal things.

By that logic, the annual should cost $120, because that's all it costs the IA to do it.
 
I saw one of my photos on a billboard. If the city had been nice when I asked about it, maybe even said they were sorry, I would have been happy to let them use it free. When they mouthed off to me, I got a lawyer. It was worth it. It became the most expensive photo I ever sold!!

Heck Jack, I’ve stolen several of your pics that you posted here. I’m printing and selling aviation calendars.


:D
 
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