Plane Missing Over Lake Erie

GRG55 said:
If this was a privately owned airplane, single pilot obviously, was it required to have flight data recorders?
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No, not under Part 91 as far as I know.
 
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Not required, but things like Citations (don't know which model this is) may have them anyhow. Further, the instrumentation in the newer models records as well.
 
RotorDude said:
The one potential benefit of ADS-B, at least before the on board recording equipment is found, is the self-reported data like airspeed or ROC, which in the case of radar can be way off. But once the on board "black boxes" are (hopefully) downloaded, that should be even more detailed and reliable.
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I wouldn't say way off. The further you get from the antenna, the data gets worse but not drastically. With FUSION and 1 sec updates, it's pretty darn accurate. 100 ft & 10 kt increments could be better though.
 
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ChemGuy said:
Lack of data is preferred, for that purpose.
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But bad "data", or "data" from a different crash (but attributed to the one in question) definitely make the discussion more lively. :rolleyes:

Nauga,
"because the light's better over here"
 
flyingron said:
Further, the instrumentation in the newer models records as well.
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Might be interesting to see how well it holds up to (fresh) water immersion.

Nauga,
who hasn't had much luck with salt water
 
Velocity173 said:
I wouldn't say way off. The further you get from the antenna, the data gets worse but not drastically. With mosaic and 1 sec updates, it's pretty darn accurate. 100 ft & 10 kt increments could be better though.
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It can become inaccurate when there is a very small number of hits and a significant rate of change, which this case seems to be. Ideally you'd want on board data (if available) as primary and external as backup/crosscheck. ADS-B when available is partially "on board" in this context.
 
RotorDude said:
Having tried to find ATC comms with the flight on LiveATC, all I found was Cleveland Approach trying to raise the flight, with no luck.
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There was a short period of time when BKL had a feed on LiveATC but it was unfortunately taken down a year or two ago.
 
nauga said:
Might be interesting to see how well it holds up to (fresh) water immersion.

Nauga,
who hasn't had much luck with salt water
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Well, the good thing is that the water off of Cleveland is known to be the purest, cleanest water known to man.
 
Whatever the proximate cause of the (assumed) crash, fatigue must be factored in. I doubt very much that the pilot broke into his daily routine to take a nap before flying to Cleveland. Had everything gone as planned, he was still faced with weather at OSU that would have required an approach, and fatigue slows both thinking and reaction time.

Bob
 
It's been pointed out on the red board that the pilot had only a Citation Mustang rating (at least in the public database) but he was flying a CJ4. Quite a difference in aircraft.
 
flyingron said:
It's been pointed out on the red board that the pilot had only a Citation Mustang rating (at least in the public database) but he was flying a CJ4. Quite a difference in aircraft.
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"The Columbus-bound Cessna Citation 525 departed Burke Lakefront Airport" is what the news is saying.
 
A 525 is not a 510 (Mustang) which is what his type rating is for. The N-number looks up to be a CJ4.
 
flyingron said:
A 525 is not a 510 (Mustang) which is what his type rating is for. The N-number looks up to be a CJ4.
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The plane appears to have been purchased on October. Perhaps his record hasn't been updated yet for a new type rating?
 
Well that's what I'm hoping happened. The FAA is actually only processing IARCA applications from the beginning of November, so if he took the type rating after they purchased the plane, he's still flying on the temporary most likely.
 
jimwomble said:
Could the controls still be locked - gust locks?
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Not likely. Would not have lifted off if that were the case.

Prayers for the family. So very sad.
 
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may have already been noted but the last line of this article says he got his ppl 2years ago. For someone flying non professionally I'd say that was the fast track to a Citation.

And before someone slaps my hand I'll say that pilot experience may have had Nothing to do with this accident. However, we all know human error is by far the most common reason for accidents.

"Fleming's father, John W. Fleming, told The Columbus Dispatch that his son was an experienced pilot. Records show he was issued a private pilot's license in January 2015."
 
arkvet said:
may have already been noted but the last line of this article says he got his ppl 2years ago. For someone flying non professionally I'd say that was the fast track to a Citation.

And before someone slaps my hand I'll say that pilot experience may have had Nothing to do with this accident. However, we all know human error is by far the most common reason for accidents.

"Fleming's father, John W. Fleming, told The Columbus Dispatch that his son was an experienced pilot. Records show he was issued a private pilot's license in January 2015."
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Im thinking that January 15 date was his type rating in the 525, matching u with when bought that plane. He was Multi and rotorcraft rated. I read somewhere he was due for recurrent at SimCom in March. He was experienced.
 
Mason said:
That date only shows his most recent issuance.
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Thank you. And "we" continue to base assumptions and speculations on mass-media reporting, while on the other hand decrying the inaccuracies in mass-media reporting.

Nauga,
beating a dead source
 
nauga said:
Thank you. And "we" continue to base assumptions and speculations on mass-media reporting, while on the other hand decrying the inaccuracies in mass-media reporting.

Nauga,
beating a dead source
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I am looking forward to the day when PoA finally qualifies as mass-media and we can repeat all the stuff that gets posted here as officially accurate :rolleyes: ;)
 
A google search for the pilot find s reference to a third class medical in 2010... pretty sure the report date of "issuance" was for a type rating. And it is likely, since he bought the plane in October, that his type rating is on a paper certificate right now.
 
I fly out of KBKL regularly in our company jets and I find that I get vertigo most every night departure.
Initial acceleration, rapid right turn to CRIBS, 2000 ft level off, 200 kts under Class B, all the lights of downtown and then completely BLACK.
I know it's going to happen and it requires my complete attention and planning, and I have a copilot.
Pulling back the power nearly to idle and keeping speed under control plus
Gear, anti-ice, departure control, in a airplane that can climb 6000+ fpm, that you've only had less than two months, WOW!
Dave
 
nauga said:
Nauga,
beating a dead source
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giphy.gif
 
Also if flaps were not up by 200 kts or so, the AP disengages...after it has trimmed nose down during the climbout. Another posssibility.
 
GLMS_NC said:
Prayers for the family. So very sad.
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When a crash claims multiple members of a family it magnifies the tragedy of the situation.

My thoughts are with those who were family or friends.
 
Part of tail and cockpit voice recorder found per local news.
 
The city ME identified 3 bodies that were recovered. The city has called off the recovery effort saying they don't believe any more bodies will be recovered.
 
Man, I hope he wasn't trying to aggressively get back to his assigned altitude and got spatial D in the process.
 
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