Plane Missing Over Lake Erie

Clip4 said:
the training was not effective for the aircraft he was operating. .
Click to expand...
He got his training from FlightSafety, a very reputable place, they train airline pilots too. If we had your standards nobody would be flying anywhere except those that have thousands hours and once they died there would no one left to fly, pilots are not going to fly alone for thousand hours to wait for a privilege of carrying passengers once they cross some imaginary threshold. You may have your super conservative standards but they are totally unrealistic for the population at large.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
olasek said:
He got his training from FlightSafety, a very reputable place, they train airline pilots too. If we had your standards nobody would be flying anywhere except those that have thousands hours and once they died there would no one left to fly, pilots are not going to fly alone for thousand hours to wait for a privilege of carrying passengers once they cross some imaginary threshold. You may have your super conservative standards but they are totally unrealistic for the population at large.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

This was a simple loss of control accident on departure. You say Flight Safety, I say no matter who trained him the training was ineffective because he didn’t have enough experiance to be PIC of that aircraft.
 
Clip4 said:
This was a simple loss of control accident on departure. You say Flight Safety, I say no matter who trained him the training was ineffective because he didn’t have enough experiance to be PIC of that aircraft.
Click to expand...

My dictionary doesn't have a definition for "experiance." Can you please define the following in simple words:
  1. Experiance
  2. Enough experiance
This will clear things up for many of us pilots who probably also do "not have enough experiance," so that we won't have similarly-poor flight outcomes.
 
Hank S said:
My dictionary doesn't have a definition for "experiance." Can you please define the following in simple words:
  1. Experiance
  2. Enough experiance
This will clear things up for many of us pilots who probably also do "not have enough experiance," so that we won't have similarly-poor flight outcomes.
Click to expand...

Boy, you're really biting into him now. Don't let up.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Jim_CAK said:
Here is a follow up article from Plan & Pilot.
Click to expand...

After reading that article, which is very good, I’m reminded of the advice I heard once, about decision making for IFR pilots:

IMC, night, mountains. Pick one.

That flight had two: night and IMC.

I say IMC because the combination of Lake Erie and dodgy vfr conditions was pretty much like IMC, but it could be the pilot didn’t expect that the lake could be that way, if he was from Columbus.
 
The CVR transcript noted the TAWS bank angle alert, indicating the pilot had lost spatial awareness and control, 38 seconds after retracting the landing gear. In another 12 seconds, the TAWS made the first of many "pull up" announcements, indicating the aircraft was in the unrecoverable dive. It hit the water 1 minute 4 seconds after gear up, 26 seconds after the first indication of LOC.

It all happened quickly.

I think the difference between autopilot engagement on the Mustang, the aircraft he had owned previously, and the CJ-4, which he had owned for less than three months, might have been the main culprit.

This theory has been kicked around by the NTSB and others because of differences in how the autopilot is engaged, and it makes sense.

Of course, the black hole of Lake Erie must have contributed to what appears to be a somatogravic illusion and spatial disorientation issue.

The link below defines the somatogravic illusion, and details the effects it has on pilots.

http://aviationknowledge.wikidot.com/aviation:somatogravic-illusion
 
Last edited:
The only time I've ever seen a pilot answer "ATC" without pushing the mic button first was when the pilot already had the Autopilot Disconnect button pushed due to a simulated runaway trim in a simulator. Keeping wings level while pulling with all your might on the elevator control can be quite challenging too. The CJ series had at least one other crash due to inability to disconnect the autopilot through the disconnect button--it was a design flaw in a circuit board--when a certain relay would fail. My question is, "Could one of those boards have found its way into the CJ4 and if so, would it have functioned well enough to pass a preflight?" The answer might still be lying on the bottom of Lake Erie. The plane came out of Brazil, btw.
 
Last edited:
Just sucks. Sounds preventable. Sounds like they had to know probably 30 sec before they died that they were in big trouble.
I have felt that somatogravic illusion in a friends MU2 on takeoff and climb out, I imagine in a citation it’s magnified.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top