What they could do is offer more/better guidance around the behavior they would like campers to exhibit when taking space (assuming they are not already seeing the behavior they desire). Maybe they could drive a cultural shift with a series of reminders year after year...
Do you base this theory on how well the pilots flying in do at following the well-written guidance, published well in advance of the event every year, to fly 90 knots, 1800 MSL, and half-mile in trail and not pass other airplanes?
On our way to Oshkosh, we overheard 3 RV pilots talking. It became obvious that one of them was in charge and only he had read the NOTAM, and he didn't even understand it completely. They were asking him questions like, "what is the ground frequency once we land?" Then they started discussing how they didn't want to fly 90 knots, so they would take the higher route. I finally jumped in and told them I've seen airplanes turned back to the starting point for this. The higher path is not for pilots who don't want to fly 90 knots, its for those who can't. It's almost like they should have known that from the NOTAM!Do you base this theory on how well the pilots flying in do at following the well-written guidance, published well in advance of the event every year, to fly 90 knots, 1800 MSL, and half-mile in trail and not pass other airplanes?
So I guess I can't bring my 32ft motorhome to Airventure then...bummer!
They must have been buyers and not builders. Or at least I hope that's the case. I built a (relatively easy) RV-14 in my basement and I can't imagine being able to do that but unable to get through the Fisk arrival. The instructions to turn on the lights in my basement are longer and more complicated than the Fisk arrival.
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around any pilot flying into Airventure without at least giving a good ole 'college try' at studying the NOTAM. I can understand forgetting some tidbit in the heat and stress of the moment, or having to refer back to it, etc... but not having read it at all just doesn't compute
I've now flown into Oshkosh seven times. The first time was very stressful, and after that it got easier and easier. I still pay very close attention to the NOTAM though, and I even teach it to local pilots. I can't imagine going in unprepared!
I think he is talking about aircraft camping. Camp Scholler rules only state you park perpendicular to the fire lines with 10' between camping units. Operation of motorized equipment such as ebikes, scooters, one wheels, etc. is only permitted for individuals with licenses. No saving of spots prior to arrival date. If you stake out a spot you must post your camping credentials on the spot. The only enforcement I saw was them running a few tents out of the 24 hour generator area.
I agree with 1-14...easy breezy. You can highlight a lot of information in the PDF before you print it (see attached), and I highlight a few more things after I print it. I end up highlighting almost everything you mentioned.
We did "arrive", in the form of physically going to Oshkosh a week and a half before the show started to stake out the spot and post camping credentials.
EAA Camp Scholler Guidelines said:
You don't need every bit of the "fluff" while you're actually flying it, but it really should be read and understood during the planning process. There's quite a bit they don't explicitly say in the NOTAM as well.
Yup - I developed a single-page flowchart for it when I flew in the first time, and I update it every year I fly in.
Yep. RV, Cirrus, whatever. It seems that all of the people flying the high arrival just because they can has mostly stopped, anyway.
They did... But even if you do the high arrival, you're supposed to descend to 1800 and slow down to 90 or as close as you can after crossing Fisk. Generally, if there's traffic both high and low arriving Fisk at nearly the same time, the high arrival will be sent down the road to 18/36 and the low arrival will be sent up the tracks to 9/27, but if there's a big speed differential and 90-knot traffic has gone both ways recently, it won't work and the high traffic will probably be sent back for another try.
WTF is this? This is not a step in the NOTAM.
Always room for another tent in the n40.
True statement, and frustrating. When I first flew in back in 2018, I was getting ready to leave. I loaded up my plane, including my tiedowns. No EAA people were passing by, so I walked all of 20 yards to a shack to request someone come and marshall me out. I got an earful about leaving the plane unattended without tying it down. Then, when I flew my newly-finished RV-14 to Airventure, the guy next to me had the chintziest wire dog tie-outs I've seen. He didn't even screw them into the ground all the way. My 15-week-old puppy would have them out in 30 seconds. I was pretty nervous about what I'd find when we got to return to the field from our hideout at the museum during the severe weather watch party the one night.
Aha!
That's my favorite rule of them all.
It's so weird. In years past, you could get beer at the bar/restaurants that were fenced in only and had security guards. Parker John's BBQ added alcohol to their menu this year and added the required fence and guards.
36R is used for overflow from the left, a few straight-ins, and the warbird approach (which comes from that side of the field anyway). Unless I'm specifically showing someone how to fly the Ripon approach, I always do the Warbird approach anyhow (though my first arrival is usually a straight in before the notam goes into effect).
There is always room for a tent. You will be out by the highway or down towards the RV pump out area depending on if you arrive Saturday or Sunday. If you have a bike or scooter it doesn’t really matter how far away you are. The past two years I arrived on Saturday morning and ended up in the same area of 7th and Elm.
They have never turned anyone away from camping in Scholler but if you arrive after Saturday afternoon and only have a tent you will be out in the middle of nowhere. Look at the map at all the generator permitted and water/electric sites. You are not allowed to have a tent in any of those areas and anything left fills up quickly or is already roped off by someone’s friend to hold it for them.
The first 2 visits we brought just bikes because we read the rules for the campground, or least I did. Each year my wife said your a dummy for not bringing something motorized to get us around. This year we brought that ATV and it made it much nicer.
I don't think marked off sites is needed but they do ride through the grounds and enforce some things. They run tents out of the 24hour area as it's a safety thing but they could also leave some notes on campers who don't park perpendicular or have a courtyard between groups. Removing roped off areas could get dicey as someone could have left for the day that had their credentials on their camper van type rig. Instead of asking for the credentials to be posted on the rig they could give out pass holder stakes that could be put in the ground. I have seen them stop kids on motorized and electric devices but truth is there just aren't enough "police" to keep it under control.
Well, they kept people from entering during Shloshkosh (2019). There were people parked on the roads and later stuck in the South 40.
that's my beef.... roped off for a friend. paid for or not it's gaming the system I think weighted towards locals especially and against folks coming from a long distance....
Yes, you'll get in. No, you won't be close. FWIW, coming in 12-15 days early we used to be just south of Audrey's Park about halfway between Schaick and Lindbergh. The last couple of years we've been in the 101 Woods.
Theoretically that's not allowed, though as long as there's a plane there it's generally not enforced. You just can't camp up there without a plane (and that is enforced).
I kinda feel like they are somewhat true to their experimental roots in that if you break the rule in a very creative and original fashion, they will look the other way.
That's un-Wisconsinlike...
None of the stores are actually "on the field".
So how would you change it?
From the rules (as you know):
Plenty of room by my airplane for my POA brother
In the past the stores selling beer weren't on the field, but they are now. I'm talking about the Red One stores in the camping areas. They're inside of the fence.
Yep, and you can now start drinking at the food venues at noon. Expect fistfights to break out even earlier.
The one and only time I've camped at Scholler, it was just me in a rental car with a 2-man tent. In 2002 I think.
That wouldn't surprise me! The only fight I've ever seen there was when a guy wouldn't quit harassing me, telling me I needed to give him a flight briefing because I had an orange shirt on under my yellow vest, so that meant I was a briefer. I tried multiple times to tell him I wasn't a briefer, but he wouldn't get out of my face. I finally got the police involved and he didn't win that fight!
The departure briefings (thank heavens) have been gone for years now. They ceased to be necessary when they got rid of the 18/36 flyby pattern decades ago. The problem was what to do with the small crew of volunteers that were responsible for this. One of them got dumped on us but the guy couldn't take N numbers over the radio (understanding the phonetic alphabet is key) and type them in so he had a lot of problems.
