New Information On MH 370

Piloto said:
This would have triggered the Master Caution system and activated the ELT automatically while in flight.
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Well, you are definitely showing your ignorance on this. Yes, a low fuel state would trigger the Master Caution system. But the ELT, if actually installed, (Again, some planes have them installed, AND SOME PLANES DON'T) is NOT triggered by the Master Caution system. The only automatic triggering of an ELT I know of is by some sort of G switch. And the ELTs on the rafts have to be manually activated.

Check: http://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/elts-commercialmilitary/b406-4/
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You keep posting that link. What are we supposed to learn from it?
 
Just because a company, who isn't Boeing, claims to manufacturer something that can integrate with something in a certain way doesn't mean that manufacturer's solution is installed in a single 777 that is in operation, yet alone the entire fleet.
 
Piloto said:
Well. If running out of fuel with both engines off is not enough reason for the the MCS to activate the ELT what would be a better reason?
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THE MASTER CAUTION SYSTEM DOES NOT ACTIVATE AN ELT.

The only way an ELT is automatically activated is by some sort of G switch. Activated by exceeding a G limit, I believe it is 5 G's.

And again, some planes are equipped with a fuselage mounted ELT and some aren't.

Since you appear to know of other options how would you have called for rescue if there was no ELT onboard.
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HF radio, VHF radio to other traffic in the area. Sat Phone. Yes all of those require Pilot effort. And assumes a pilot is conscious enough to use them

But I am not as smart as you.
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Yeah. You are proving that with each post you make.
 
3393RP said:
Here come the lawyers...


The attorney displays his impeccable logic and critical thinking...



Leaves me feeling dirty just having read it. Ugh.
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And embarrassed to be from Chicago. (And no Cubs jokes dammit.). ;)
 
Here is an article by Shanghai Daily about the MH 370 B777

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=208464

"There are several emergency locator transmitters (ELT) on the aircraft. Once a failure or accident happens, apart from the pilots, all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system," he said.

Can we trust the chinese or the experts on this forum?
BTW I just found out that the B777 simulators have no ELT either.

José
 
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Piloto said:
Here is an article by Shanghai Daily about the MH 370 B777

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=208464

"There are several emergency locator transmitters (ELT) on the aircraft. Once a failure or accident happens, apart from the pilots, all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system," he said.

Can we trust the chinese or the experts on this forum?
BTW I just found out that the B777 simulators have no ELT either.

José
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I'd trust the forum experts. Every time I see a news story where I have first person knowledge of the facts, the news story is wrong. I bet the Chinese media is even worse than ours at that.
 
Dav8or said:
Yep. The guy with the binoculars looks to be pretty crafty. He is likely the mastermind and knows exactly where it is. It's not in a hangar. They threw tree branches over it just like in the WWII movies.
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The guy with the binoculars is a limo driver in Minneapolis.
 
Lindberg said:
How will they be rescued if they crash? :yikes:
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On mine I press the ESC (Escape) key on the keyboard and it gets me out. But check with the experts here, they know everything. I am not that smart.

José
 
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Dav8or said:
Ah HA! Now we know where the plane is! I knew this case could be solved by means of internet forum!!:cheers:
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No, his name is Barkhad Abdi and he IS a limo driver and cellphone salesman in Minneapolis.


(well, he also got nominated for an Oscar for his role in 'Capt Phillips')
 
weilke said:
No, his name is Barkhad Abdi and he IS a limo driver and cellphone salesman in Minneapolis...
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Yea we know but he's also the Somali pirate who hijacked the plane, right?

I mean, unless I'm missing something here......:rolleyes2:
 
Piloto said:
Here is an article by Shanghai Daily about the MH 370 B777

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=208464

"There are several emergency locator transmitters (ELT) on the aircraft. Once a failure or accident happens, apart from the pilots, all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system," he said.

Can we trust the chinese or the experts on this forum?
BTW I just found out that the B777 simulators have no ELT either.

José
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Well the "Shanghai Daily" - there you have it ! I've heard a lot of doctors use the information in that paper to perform brain surgery too !!! I mean I guess we needn't look any further, if the shanghai daily says so it's just gotta be :rolleyes:
 
Some of our helicopters have an immersion switch for the ELT (actually, something like 4 immersion switches). That is, when the immersion switch fills with water, the ELT goes off. I take it fixed wing aircraft do not ever have this option, even for aircraft that routinely fly over long stretches of water?


Also...
Piloto said:
marines found Bin Laden
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That's good for a giggle.
 
Well, I have seen an insane amount of hysterical coverage and sat photos of flotsam and jetsam at the center of an Indian Ocean Gyre.
Now, suddenly the F&J that they were hyperventilating over and spending millions of dollars circling planes and ships around it is forgotten and they are off like a pack of hounds 700 miles away after new F&J based on a new analysis of something or other - maybe Miley's crack.
The Fat Lady is not even warming up her vocal cords yet so you might want to take an even strain on the hawser, throttle back to cruise climb, bum a smoke from the aft watch and wait to see how this ends.
 
At 11:09 EDT the only guy with any REAL credibility will be on CNN to speak about MH370. Luis Vireila is a long time triple 7 captain and a safety expert on aircraft fires. Finally CNN has worked themselves down to someone with a brain cell or two.
 
Art VanDelay said:
At 11:09 EDT the only guy with any REAL credibility will be on CNN to speak about MH370. Luis Vireila is a long time triple 7 captain and a safety expert on aircraft fires. Finally CNN has worked themselves down to someone with a brain cell or two.
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The problem with that is he will be coached and they will only ask questions that they already know the answer to. Honestly it would be more entertaining to watch someone with "thousands of hours of sim experience". :rolleyes2:
 
Piloto said:
Here is an article by Shanghai Daily about the MH 370 B777

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=208464

"There are several emergency locator transmitters (ELT) on the aircraft. Once a failure or accident happens, apart from the pilots, all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system," he said.

Can we trust the chinese or the experts on this forum?
BTW I just found out that the B777 simulators have no ELT either.

José
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Do you actually think the interview of "an experienced Malaysian pilot" will provide knowledgeable information about operation of a 777's systems? Some of the statements made make me doubt this experienced pilot has even flown an airliner.

The "experts on this forum" have said many times there are ELTs attached to the aircraft's rafts. The assertion in the article that there are "several" ELTs on the aircraft undoubtedly refers to these.

This does not change the fact you are completely wrong about hidden ELTs and activation switches along with Master Caution System activation of a probably non-existent cockpit ELT.
 
I like how CNN is saying that the search has shifted to a new area based on new calculations of radar data....how 'bout just admitting it shifted because they didn't find jack in the first search area?
 
3393RP said:
Do you actually think the interview of "an experienced Malaysian pilot" will provide knowledgeable information about operation of a 777's systems? Some of the statements made make me doubt this experienced pilot has even flown an airliner.

The "experts on this forum" have said many times there are ELTs attached to the aircraft's rafts. The assertion in the article that there are "several" ELTs on the aircraft undoubtedly refers to these.

This does not change the fact you are completely wrong about hidden ELTs and activation switches along with Master Caution System activation of a probably non-existent cockpit ELT.
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The antenna on the rafts ELTs is retracted. There is no way they can transmit a signal to a satellite specially when inside the cabin. The Chinese article clearly says "report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system". This would imply turning a switch on while in flight to the ground. The only ELT that can radiate a signal to the satellites is the one connected to an outside antenna which would be the ones attached to the airframe not to a raft.

According to you and the experts here a pilot would have to abandon the cockpit during an emergency walk out to a cabin door, open the door while in flight to release the raft hoping the ELT would activate. Yep much easier than flipping the switch in the panel.

BTW the interface of the ELT to the MCS is just a single wire connected to the MCS annunciator, no fancy interface here. During some non emergency events the MCS will annunciate and the ELT may activate. When this happens the "ELT ON" is annunciated on the EICAS display. If there is no real emergency the pilot can turn the ELT OFF by the resetting to the ARM mode on the ELT panel. ELTs can also get activated by themeselves during a hard landing and this is why the pilot needs to re ARM the ELT. The ones on the rafts have no impact sensors. Check on the B777 manuals.

But yes you are right some B777 are not ELT equipped. On those you press the ESC key when in trouble.

José
 
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3393RP said:
Do you actually think the interview of "an experienced Malaysian pilot" will provide knowledgeable information about operation of a 777's systems? Some of the statements made make me doubt this experienced pilot has even flown an airliner.

The "experts on this forum" have said many times there are ELTs attached to the aircraft's rafts. The assertion in the article that there are "several" ELTs on the aircraft undoubtedly refers to these.

This does not change the fact you are completely wrong about hidden ELTs and activation switches along with Master Caution System activation of a probably non-existent cockpit ELT.
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If the ELT was attached to the life rafts, then we can presume they won't be in this situation:

http://youtu.be/8sljSf7KVlQ
 
Piloto said:
The Chinese article clearly says "report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system". This would imply turning a switch on while in flight to the ground.

According to you and the experts here a pilot would have to abandon the cockpit during an emergency walk out to a cabin door, open the door while in flight to release the raft hoping the ELT would activate. Yep much easier than flipping the switch in the panel.

BTW the interface of the ELT to the MCS is just a single wire connected to the MCS annunciator, no fancy interface here. During some non emergency events the MCS will annunciate and the ELT may activate. When this happens the "ELT ON" is annunciated on the EICAS display. If there is no real emergency the pilot can turn the ELT OFF by the resetting to the ARM mode on the ELT panel. ELTs can also get activated by themeselves during a hard landing and this is why the pilot needs to re ARM the ELT. The ones on the rafts have no impact sensors. Check on the B777 manuals.

But yes you are right some B777 are not ELT equipped. On those you press the ESC key when in trouble.

José
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Let's include the entire quote:

"There are several emergency locator transmitters (ELT) on the aircraft. Once a failure or accident happens, apart from the pilots, all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system,"
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If there are "several" ELTs and "all the crew members" can switch on the ELT system" the person quoted must be referring to the raft ELTs. He is also obviously incorrect in stating that "all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system". It just doesn't work that way.

You have finally figured out that the MCS has no control over the ELT:

Piloto said:
BTW the interface of the ELT to the MCS is just a single wire connected to the MCS annunciator, no fancy interface here.
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What you have described is a simple analog output from the ELT to the annunciator, with no interface or control by the MCS.

The annunciation of "ELT ON" has nothing to do with MCS activation of the ELT and your assertion that fuel starvation "would have triggered the Master Caution system and activated the ELT automatically while in flight".
 
Holy cow. CNN just went full retard. A friend just posted a photo on FB of his TV screen. CNN is doing more work in the simulator and the ticker tape headline is 'Developing Story: Boeing 777 will struggle to maintain altitude once fuel tanks are empty'

Wow. If only pilots would pay more attention to CNN, we might be able to eradicate fuel exhaustion accidents!
 
Fearless Tower said:
A friend just posted a photo on FB of his TV screen. CNN is doing more work in the simulator and the ticker tape headline is 'Developing Story: Boeing 777 will struggle to maintain altitude once fuel tanks are empty'
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That's epic! Can you post the photo here?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Holy cow. CNN just went full retard. A friend just posted a photo on FB of his TV screen. CNN is doing more work in the simulator and the ticker tape headline is 'Developing Story: Boeing 777 will struggle to maintain altitude once fuel tanks are empty'

Wow. If only pilots would pay more attention to CNN, we might be able to eradicate fuel exhaustion accidents!
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I bet they had to hire a rocket scientist to come up with that comment. Damn news media is getting dumber every day.
 
acrophile said:
That's epic! Can you post the photo here?
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Here it is:

ru8ytesy.jpg
 
How much of a struggle does it put up? Can it fight along for hours? Or does it just slap fight for a few seconds and then give up?

C'mon CNN!!! Don't leave us hanging!
 
Did y'all see John Stewart's comments on this earlier this week? Still getting over it along with Scary Mary's comments that if there was a worm hole, it would quickly suck in the entire universe (g).

Best,

Dave
 
3393RP said:
Let's include the entire quote:



If there are "several" ELTs and "all the crew members" can switch on the ELT system" the person quoted must be referring to the raft ELTs. He is also obviously incorrect in stating that "all the crew members can also report the aircraft's location to the ground by switching on the ELT system". It just doesn't work that way.

You have finally figured out that the MCS has no control over the ELT:



What you have described is a simple analog output from the ELT to the annunciator, with no interface or control by the MCS.

The annunciation of "ELT ON" has nothing to do with MCS activation of the ELT and your assertion that fuel starvation "would have triggered the Master Caution system and activated the ELT automatically while in flight".
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Obviously pressing the ESC key has not worked for you. Try a POWER ON RESET. Let me know when you are done.

José
 
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