My Glider Club Impressions...

Aceman

Aceman

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Aceman
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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It's neither of the above. I would get the same comments. Unless you're actually a closet billionaire, aviation is expensive no matter what you look like or do for a job. I would highly suggest getting a thicker skin if innocent comments that are normal reactions to buying something as expensive as a brand new glider or parachute bother you and make you feel insulted and angry.
 
1 through 3 would be natural questions for or from anyone. Number 4 is a little weird.

Just a general comment from an admitted WASP. You can find racism in pretty much any comment if that is what you are looking for. Life would probably be a whole lot easier if one doesn’t go looking for issues that aren’t there.
 
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Number 4 is stupidity. But I think the rest are the normal joking comments about the cost of flying. I'm sure it's annoying to have to filter what people are saying, but try to give these guys some more time.

As for your new membership, congratulations. I hope there are some memorable flights in your future. Flying a glider competently provides great rewards. I've always enjoyed spending hours in the air, made possible by training, practice, and one's own ability to understand how nature's free lift works. It's fun and fulfilling.

:thumbsup:
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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I don't sense any racism, I think you're reading too much into it.

First... #4 sounds like a joke. I don't think any pilot out there doesn't know what a stall is. IDK how common it is to practice them for funsies in gliders.

#1-3 are questions anyone might ask each other. Buying your own aircraft isn't cheap, nor your own parachute. I don't know what your glider model costs, but I'm sure it's out of reach for most people.
And sure, there's a fair chance there is some jealousy if you're able to throw down money for your own glider.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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Sounds like jealousy to me. Especially since it’s multiple members. Most people don’t care about other people’s race, gender, politics, religion etc. There are obviously racists within every ethnicity but in my travels they are the minority.

If all of those comments came from one person I would be inclined to say there was bias involved.

Not so sure in the situation you described but without being there to see first hand it’s impossible to know with certainty.
 
Nah ... I didn't sense anything amiss except some trash talking that most all people do regardless of the activity. When I flew ultralights it wasn't considered to be a "real" airplane. I have a Light Sport certificate so I'm not a "real" pilot. I also ride a Honda 1800 VTX but it ain't a Harley so I ain't a "real" biker. My FCC certificate is only for General Class so I'm not a "real" ham. So?

What people think of me isn't any of my business and I don't care enough to try & live my life to impress others. I'm extremely happy with the life the Good Lord has given me. From what little I've read about you ... you should be happy too. ;)
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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Well, frankly it doesn't sound like racism, at least from just reading the text. It sounds like the sort of kidding and needling guys do with each other all the time. Were I you, and I'm not, I'd take it that way and fling a little right back. Don't start out assuming the worst about people.

Possible answers to "Did you win the lottery or something?" include:
- No, I married money.​
- No, my cocaine sales have been doing pretty well.​
- No, I got a contract last week to bump off somebody who was asking too many questions.​
- No, I sold a little of my Amazon stock.​
- No, my Boeing lawsuit just settled.​
- No, I was putting in a new septic system last month and we struck oil.​

Lighten up and have some fun.
 
To the OP, all of those questions, I’d get asked them, too. Been there, seriously doubt it’s for sure racist. A lot of those questions are more related to socio-economic status and it could be that you might want to think about the way you dress around those people. They might be genuinely interested in knowing if they’re going to get paid, and if they expect to see you long-term. I’d urge you to tough it out, but expect it to take a bit to earn the respect. I had to do that at Cannon Field but once I earned it I was in. Lots of aviation circles are that way.
 
I've been in a glider club - that's just normal banter. When a new guy starts talking about buying an aircraft, the first reaction seems to be "Does this guy really know what he's getting into?" or "Dude, how much money do you have?"
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
First... #4 sounds like a joke. I don't think any pilot out there doesn't know what a stall is. IDK how common it is to practice them for funsies in gliders.
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Remember this is "new single engine land" guy showing up at a glider operation where if it's like many glider operations it's a little "cliquey" - if that is a word to indicate a closely knit group that is suspicious of strangers. Laypersons think a "stall" in an airplane means the engine coughed and died. I think it was a joke, and I can understand why the OP wouldn't see it that way.
 
For the record, I didn't see Matthew's post until I submitted mine, and he couldn't have seen mine first if you look at the time stamp.

Anyway, I agree with Matthew (and Ryan) including that this isn't racist.
 
dbahn said:
For the record, I didn't see Matthew's post until I submitted mine, and he couldn't have seen mine first if you look at the time stamp.

Anyway, I agree with Matthew (and Ryan) including that this isn't racist.
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I saw yours right after I posted.

You're right, the club world is pretty tight, and any time a new guy comes in there's a learning curve as each side figures out the other side.

Some of those guys have been in that club for a long time, cruising along just fine. Then a "go getter" moves in and there's a bit of feather ruffling.
 
RyanShort1 said:
.....and it could be that you might want to think about the way you dress around those people.
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I hope most pilots aren’t foolish enough to make judgements that way. My field’s t-hangars are full of millionaires in greasy t-shirts and filthy blue jeans wrenching on airplanes.
 
Half Fast said:
I hope most pilots aren’t foolish enough to make judgements that way. My field’s t-hangars are full of millionaires in greasy t-shirts and filthy blue jeans wrenching on airplanes.
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We all know we shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but to me it sounds like this isn't a club of rich guys - they are surprised at someone wanting to buy their own parachute and skeptical x2 of people that are going to drop money on an expensive glider. If anything, they might think that the OP is hoity-toity and might be a tad jealous if he can really afford a glider.
 
RyanShort1 said:
We all know we shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but to me it sounds like this isn't a club of rich guys - they are surprised at someone wanting to buy their own parachute and skeptical x2 of people that are going to drop money on an expensive glider.
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On the other hand, they also would LOVE to have their own parachute, not to mention their own expensive glider, which they know is pure fantasy.
 
I'm confused why those comments are being interpreted as racist and subsequently insulting. Be thankful you can afford to participate in such an activity and disregard comments of others that you perceive as being derogatory. It sounds to me like this person wishes they had the means to also be doing what you are.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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Whatsa HpH Twin Shark and what do they cost? I’ve gotten the good luck in the lottery thing many times when I say I’d like to have a ………
I’m assuming you are financially well off, therefore the jealously aspect of your “…is this racism or jealously…” question. I’m sorry that things are such you have to even wonder. My guess is most of the CM’s are not bigots. Unfortunately, there has and always will be that percentage of folk who are.
 
luvflyin said:
Whatsa HpH Twin Shark and what do they cost?
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wingsandwheels.com

HpH Twin Shark

New delivery of a 2024 HpH Twin Shark. This is the last US delivery slot for 2024. Twin Shark's base price is approximately $142,000 USD. Sailplane with instruments, engine option, additional options, trailer, and delivery estimated at $250,000 to $275
wingsandwheels.com wingsandwheels.com
 
Oh my… where is the racism??

You’re a new guy. Take the ribbing like anyone else new to the club.

Think “initiation”. If they didn’t give the new guy crap because he was a minority, that would be pandering…. And THAT would be racism.
 
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$140k is a lot of money. Expect people to make comments on it.

Pilots in general are cheap bastards. Glider pilots even more-so.
 
Most or all of them are in a club because they can’t afford to buy their own. Then a new guy shows up and says he’s going to buy his own high-end aircraft. So he’s not only going to get some ribbing because he’s new (as happens in every group of any type, formal or informal), but it also can come across as flexing.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.
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Just an observation but in your six-pack vs glass thread, your initial question was whether avionics choice “crippled” the pilot.

In your glider vs tailwheel thread, it was another binary choice based on adversity; the .mil vs .civ training thread questioned the quality of .civ training, also presenting a binary choice, with only very limited or no experience.

Wisdom says when you point your finger at something, you have three more pointing back at you. The underlying theme appears you seek validation of an opinion that doesn’t reflect reality.

If you’re uncomfortable with the people in the club you joined, find a new club.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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Maybe you are talking to pilots who understand the true cost of ownership. They are commenting on your purchase choice relative to your experience. Next time just say you have not decided on the make and model.
 
Clip4 said:
Maybe you are talking to pilots who understand the true cost of ownership. They are commenting on your purchase choice relative to your experience. Next time just say you have not decided on the make and model.
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Or ask for recommendations. Clubs can be a good resource for experience.
 
Racisim goes botb ways. It seems like the only person being racist here is you. Just because a white person or person of skin color other than yours asks you as a new glider club member what your plans are or comment that a $140k plane is expensive doesn't mean it has anything to do with race. It's only you imposing your own bias that is making you think that. Did you continue the conversation with them after the question or ask them if they are going to buy a glider or their own chute or did you just walk away with a chip on your shoulder? If you get known as the guy in the club who views everything as having racial overtones you you are going to end up finding yourself isolated and people avoiding you not because they are racist but because you are.
 
No one can tell you what you feel, but asking me if I feel a racism tone there - well it's not blatant enough for me to detect.

Here is an "ism" that I can detect:
Last week, sweet 20 yo gal preflighting her plane before her lesson is told by hangar neighbor "Women don't belong around airplanes." There was no tone of "I'm joking" to it.
This was a grey haired dude, if anyone wants to try to "ism" that!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
No one can tell you what you feel, but asking me if I feel a racism tone there - well it's not blatant enough for me to detect.

Here is an "ism" that I can detect:
Last week, sweet 20 yo gal preflighting her plane before her lesson is told by hangar neighbor "Women don't belong around airplanes." There was no tone of "I'm joking" to it.
This was a grey haired dude, if anyone wants to try to "ism" that!
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If I heard that there would be a very stern one way conversation
 
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The first 3 are just harmless banter/ribbing. The 4th one is really weird, it's tough to really have an opinion on that without knowing more context or having heard it in person but I've never heard a joke like that. Jokes are supposed to be clever/funny. Although in aviation you do get people who struggle with social interaction so it may have just been somebody like that.
 
From just reading the text summary you provided, I don't read anything remotely racist about it. However, your summary doesn't likely provide every detail, and it doesn't provide the tone in which it was spoken. So, while it doesn't appear that racism was a factor, without being there in person it's hard to completely rule it out. I will reiterate what others have mentioned, where you appear to be "looking for racism" and possibly applying that definition to words/comments that aren't inherently racist. Someone making a comment about whether your bank account can afford a $150K glider isn't racist so much as it's a commentary about how expensive aviation tends to be. It's also a bit strange to join a glider club and then immediately say you're going to buy a new high-end glider. Glider clubs tend to be composed of members who don't have the financial means to own a glider of their own, so it may be a bit off-putting for you to come in and join their club when you claim to be able to buy your own without issue. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably quit looking so hard to find racism behind every comment or else aviation (and life) is going to be very frustrating for you.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
No one can tell you what you feel, but asking me if I feel a racism tone there - well it's not blatant enough for me to detect.

Here is an "ism" that I can detect:
Last week, sweet 20 yo gal preflighting her plane before her lesson is told by hangar neighbor "Women don't belong around airplanes." There was no tone of "I'm joking" to it.
This was a grey haired dude, if anyone wants to try to "ism" that!
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That pretty much describes my second instructor.
He refused to train any woman, would criticize every female voice on the radio whether ATC or pilot as being incompetent. Felt deep in his bones that women were stealing all the aviation jobs.
Generally just had an axe to grind with every woman out there.

Thankfully I don't think this behavior is commonplace. Nor do I think racism between pilots is that common...
Most people are just happy to geek out about airplanes w/someone else.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
No one can tell you what you feel, but asking me if I feel a racism tone there - well it's not blatant enough for me to detect.

Here is an "ism" that I can detect:
Last week, sweet 20 yo gal preflighting her plane before her lesson is told by hangar neighbor "Women don't belong around airplanes." There was no tone of "I'm joking" to it.
This was a grey haired dude, if anyone wants to try to "ism" that!
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Someone needs to take that useless old gomer out behind the hangar and have a come-to-Jesus meetin’ with him. Let me guess: 40 years a pilot, 300 hours, clapped-out plane that he thinks is a 747, never flew more than an hour at a time since he got his ticket?
 
I agree with most that they are typical comments. I got similar ones when I bought my Mooney. One friend is fond of saying that when they grow up they want to be rich like me.

In fact, I see them as accepting you as a PILOT without any qualifiers. In today's world, no real racist would make comments like that in public.

That glider looks sweet. Enjoy. One day I hope to be able to afford a nice glider.
 
Aceman said:
So I joined my local glider club after I got back from getting my PPL ticket but I'm coming across some very racist ( or extreme stereotyping) comments and wanted to know how should I address them.

I'm Afro-american and am just 1 of 2 people of color in the club. The other guy I barely even see.

I'm getting frustrated at the comments people are making.

1) Club member (CM1) says "are you getting your own glider"? Me: "Yes." CM: "What kind?" Me: "An HpH Twin Shark" CM: "Did you win the lottery or something?"

2) Me: "There are too many rules about parachutes so I'm going to buy my own." CM2: "You have $2k to spend on a parachute?"

3) CM2: "I forgot where you got your training from?" Me: "Arizona Soaring Association" CM2: "Oh yea. That's a good place." CM2: "Are you planning on getting your own glider?" Me: "Yes." CM2: "What kind?" Me: "HpH Twin Shark" CM2: "I bet your bank account loves that!" Me: "As long as I work, I'm fine."

4) CM2: "What do you plan on practicing today?" Me: "Stalls." CM2: "Do you know what a stall is?"

Is this racism or jealousy? I am insulted and angry at the same time.
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What are the black pilot demographic numbers? Very slim. Now what are the odds your question is going to be met with confirmation on this board?
Read the room bruh.
 
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