Logging time

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

May the force be with you
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
16,415
Display Name
Display name:
Sixer
So in selling a plane, I realized something.
Mechanic says "Wow 90 hours since June"

I said no way we flew that much.

I Talked to my dad and realize there is my logged time, Tac time, and Hobbs time.

What do you log in your log book?

I have only been logging the time en-route. If it is a 1 hour flight, I log an hour. There may be 1.5 on the hobbs with run-up, taxi, waiting, etc

As students I paid by the hobbs time. As a pilot is this still the way to log it? I may have cheated myself out of a hundred hours of logable time by just logging the flight time.

Also adding up the total tac time in the books showed less hours than the hobbs. All the maintenance records were based on the accumulated tac time. My gut tells me the hobbs is just for renting purposes since it is not required in the aircraft.

Which of these numbers is important?

Thanks.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
So in selling a plane, I realized something.
Mechanic says "Wow 90 hours since June"

I said no way we flew that much.

I Talked to my dad and realize there is my logged time, Tac time, and Hobbs time.

What do you log in your log book?

I have only been logging the time en-route. If it is a 1 hour flight, I log an hour. There may be 1.5 on the hobbs with run-up, taxi, waiting, etc

As students I paid by the hobbs time. As a pilot is this still the way to log it? I may have cheated myself out of a hundred hours of logable time by just logging the flight time.

Also adding up the total tac time in the books showed less hours than the hobbs. All the maintenance records were based on the accumulated tac time. My gut tells me the hobbs is just for renting purposes since it is not required in the aircraft.

Which of these numbers is important?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If your plane doesn't have a hobbs meter, perhaps you should start a timer on your iPad when you start up and then record the time when you shut down. That, or just record Tach time, which could be less than the actual time flown.

Send some of those extra hours over to Modesto.
 
maybe miscommunication.

It does have hobbs. but I never logged that. I just logged time aloft.
 
I log time on my watch, from engine start to engine stop. Regs say to log time "from when aircraft begins to move for purpose of flight," which is when I release the brakes and start rolling outside of my hangar.

Maintenance runs on the tach, which logs time based on RPMs at a level set by the engine manufacturer.

As a student, I paid whatever I was charged, which memory says was aircraft and instructor time by the Hobbs. My plane dies not have a Hobbs meter, they'd I log by my watch. For instance, tonight my tach showed 0.8 hours, but my watch said 55 minutes, so I logged 0.9 hours while taking a 0.8 hour step towards my next oil change / magneto IRAN / engine OH. Don't know how much fuel I used, as I neither filled up nor stacked the tanks afterwards, but I started with 15 / 20 gals L / R.
 
Hobbs +10%. Kidding about the ten percent. All the ground taxi time counts. No reason not to log it. Although if you ain't fighting your way into a regional it probably doesn't matter.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
maybe miscommunication.

It does have hobbs. but I never logged that. I just logged time aloft.
Click to expand...

So when you were / are doing night currency landings to a full stop, you don't count the time you spend taxiing back for the next departure? I don't take the trouble when making multiple landings to start and stop a stopwatch each time I enter / exit the runway.

Start up, start watch, taxi, takeoff, fly. At final landing (which may also be the first landing), shut her down and record time. I log the difference.

Actually, I don't need to record the time, the clock mounted in my yoke has a set of non-moving hands, red ones, that I set and use for logging time and for switching tanks every hour. Small, compact, multi-use, never needs batteries. Yes, SET / WIND CLOCK is on the checklist!
 
It doesn't matter, nobody really cares. You log the most conservative number, unless you are building time towards a job, it really doesn't serve you to log any more than that, however if you log Hobbs or Tach, they are perfectly acceptable as well.

I tend to log Hobbs for simplicity. If the Hobbs is on a oil pressure switch or master, I log ramp to ramp. If it is on a squat or air switch, then I log time in flight. Much of the time anymore, I forget to log it anyway. I don't fly enough, or take pax to worry about maintaining currency, it just isn't going to happen so why bother? If I need to establish pax currency, I'll do it then. For the most part it's FRs and IPCs that get logged.
 
If you have an accident on taxi - but were intending to fly, the FAA counts it as part of the "flight" - so by all means log it!
 
I log Hobbs because I'm on a timeshare which goes by the Hobbs. Easier to track the hours I have left before the year is up. There was another thread regarding this topic that got kind of heated.
 
Henning said:
It doesn't matter, nobody really cares. You log the most conservative number, unless you are building time towards a job, it really doesn't serve you to log any more than that, however if you log Hobbs or Tach, they are perfectly acceptable as well.

I tend to log Hobbs for simplicity. If the Hobbs is on a oil pressure switch or master, I log ramp to ramp. If it is on a squat or air switch, then I log time in flight. Much of the time anymore, I forget to log it anyway. I don't fly enough, or take pax to worry about maintaining currency, it just isn't going to happen so why bother? If I need to establish pax currency, I'll do it then. For the most part it's FRs and IPCs that get logged.
Click to expand...


My insurance would be cheaper on the Cirrus if I had 81 more PIC hours. Not a big deal but for 1 year the rate will be higher.
 
Here's how all the pros do it.

Once the prop starts to when the prop stops goes in your PILOTS log.
I use my iPhone timer, or take note of my start and stop time on the clock
--unless it's just a ground run,then you log zilch.

Tach time goes in your PLANES log. (For GA piston planes).
 
Last edited:
20 years of flying, very hour logged is Hobbs time.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
maybe miscommunication.

It does have hobbs. but I never logged that. I just logged time aloft.
Click to expand...

Can't understand why you would do that. Of course there's no requirement after getting your PPL to log anything if you have no intentions of earning other ratings.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My insurance would be cheaper on the Cirrus if I had 81 more PIC hours. Not a big deal but for 1 year the rate will be higher.
Click to expand...

Figure 10% to your total PIC time, does that add up to 81hrs PIC? If not it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
This time, but a couple years from now he'll be short 30 hours for a rate reduction on the A36 :lol:
 
James331 said:
Here's how all the pros do it.

Once the prop starts to when the prop stops goes in your PILOTS log.
I use my iPhone timer, or take note of my start and stop time on the clock
--unless it's just a ground run,then you log zilch.

Tach time goes in your PLANES log. (For GA piston planes).
Click to expand...

This.

Hobbs time goes in my logbook. As soon as the prop spins, the level of responsibility goes full.
 
Neither the Hobbs nor the Tach strictly fits the definition of either FLIGHT TIME nor in most cases TIME IN SERVICE. However, the FAA doesn't get wrapped around the axle as long as you pick some reasonable definition of either for your use ... unless they catch you sandbagging time as instruction and decides to string you up over using the tach as well (I may be misremembering parts of that story but C'Ron will be along soon to correct me).
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
It does have hobbs. but I never logged that. I just logged time aloft.
Click to expand...
Then you're cheating yourself of loggable time. Per 14 CFR 1.1:
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or
(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
Click to expand...
And the FAA is happy with using Hobbs time in your pilot logbook even though a few minutes may elapse from engine start to "when an aircraft moves under its own power".
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Here's how all the pros do it.

Once the prop starts to when the prop stops goes in your PILOTS log.
I use my iPhone timer, or take note of my start and stop time on the clock
--unless it's just a ground run,then you log zilch.

Tach time goes in your PLANES log. (For GA piston planes).
Click to expand...

You're mixing the words "pros" and "props"?? :rolleyes: :rofl:

(Props are for kids) :thumbsup:
 
Weight On Gear switch. Time on Hobbs automatically starts when skids leave the surface (moves under own power), time stops on landing. That's how the real "pros" log it.:D
 
I log flight time. Not taxi time. Not line up and wait time. Not any other time dinking around on the ground. Not Hobbs time, or tach time, or watch on my wrist time. When I land I check the timer on the 430 which only starts the timer above 30kts GS, and round to the nearest 0.1hr.

Why? When I move the plane from the hangar to the runup area my purpose for that is taxiing. When I move from the runup area to the runway, it's still for the purpose of taxiing. Only after I'm on the runway, and I'm rolling am I moving for the purpose of flight.
 
Last edited:
EdFred said:
I log flight time. Not taxi time. Not line up and wait time. Not any other time dinking around on the ground. Not Hobbs time, or tach time, or watch on my wrist time. When I land I check the timer on the 430 which only starts the timer above 30kts GS, and round to the nearest 0.1hr.

Why? When I move the plane from the hangar to the runup area my purpose for that is taxiing. When I move from the runup area to the runway, it's still for the purpose of taxiing. Only after I'm on the runway, and I'm rolling am I moving for the purpose of flight.
Click to expand...

That is fine to use as your interpretation of 'moving for the purpose of flight' for logging as it is perfectly acceptable being more conservative than the FAA's interpretation, but it does not represent the FAA's interpretation.
 
Henning said:
That is fine to use as your interpretation of 'moving for the purpose of flight' for logging as it is perfectly acceptable being more conservative than the FAA's interpretation, but it does not represent the FAA's interpretation.
Click to expand...

That's because the FAA is run by morons.
 
EdFred said:
That's because the FAA is run by morons.
Click to expand...

That is because the FAA has other things to worry about besides taxi time being logged as flight time, so they just allow the liberal time and set their minimum standards in those regards. Eliminates the whiners and stupid phone calls.
 
Velocity173 said:
Weight On Gear switch. Time on Hobbs automatically starts when skids leave the surface (moves under own power), time stops on landing. That's how the real "pros" log it.:D
Click to expand...

That's what my Hobbs reads, but I only use it for time in service (which is as close to the FAA definition as you're going to get in an automatic system).

For (pilot) flight time, I use my watch.
 
Velocity173 said:
Weight On Gear switch. Time on Hobbs automatically starts when skids leave the surface (moves under own power), time stops on landing. That's how the real "pros" log it.:D
Click to expand...

That's how most complex planes I operate are set up. I have also run into air switches on the belly with a tab that blows back in the slip stream and makes contact.

At the end of the day, if you use what the Hobbs says, no one will fault you, that is the standard procedure.
 
Here we go again. This same discussion came up a few months ago... I'll try to find the thread. It ran it's course.

A group of guys got very nasty about the fact that I said I log engine on to engine off. They were all very pro wheels-up to wheels-down.

This is a bible "for or against drinking alcohol" debate.

Personally, I log engine-on to engine-off provided I actually take off.
 
ahkahn said:
Here we go again. This same discussion came up a few months ago... I'll try to find the thread. It ran it's course.

A group of guys got very nasty about the fact that I said I log engine on to engine off. They were all very pro wheels-up to wheels-down.

This is a bible "for or against drinking alcohol" debate.

Personally, I log engine-on to engine-off provided I actually take off.
Click to expand...

And I will say what I said in that thread.

I start up my engine, creep forward, and set the brakes. I burn about 2.5 gallons of fuel an hour at low idle. I have 86 gallons of usable fuel on board. I let it idle for about 30 hours while I nap in the pilot seat. I then taxi over to the runway and do a lap around the pattern. Well, would you look at that, I just logged 30.1hrs of flight time. Yay me!

I could have stretched it to 32 hours of idle, but I gotta have my 1/2 hr of reserve you know. Rules and all.
 
EdFred said:
And I will say what I said in that thread.

I start up my engine, creep forward, and set the brakes. I burn about 2.5 gallons of fuel an hour at low idle. I have 86 gallons of usable fuel on board. I let it idle for about 30 hours while I nap in the pilot seat. I then taxi over to the runway and do a lap around the pattern. Well, would you look at that, I just logged 30.1hrs of flight time. Yay me!

I could have stretched it to 32 hours of idle, but I gotta have my 1/2 hr of reserve you know. Rules and all.
Click to expand...

I think you just made a textbook example of a Straw Man.
 
I think separating taxi time from flight time is splitting hairs. I have a Hobbs and I just log ramp to ramp for simplicity.
 
Off topic: When you were selling the Tampico, which time were you reporting as the total time? You said something like 8,000 hours on the aircraft. I report Tach time for that purpose & for maintenance. I log Hobbs.
 
I log Hobbs, so essentially engine on to engine off. That's the period I'm in full control of the airplane and responsible for its function and operation from the pilots seat. That's what I was always taught and my understanding of the regulation.

Let's remember time is recorded in 1/10th of an hour not seconds so there is always a bit of rounding error. Fighting over the 3 mins between the time the engine is on and the taxi begins is pointless or the extra 30 seconds you ran the engine on the ramp before final shutdown is pointless.

Taxiing definitely counts as time, regs are quite clear about that so long as the taxi is going to or from a flight or intended flight.
 
I log hangar door unlocked to hangar door latched and locked.
 
When I start the airplane, it moves (for definitions of "moves") under it's own power, so I've always logged hobbs time. For airplanes without hobbs, I note the time when I start and the time when I shutdown.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top