How to have an incident

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Henning said:
I didn't 'report' it as an incident, the NTSB declared it an incident lol.
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On re-reading the 6120 instructions... apparently the curled props/strikes are exceptions to the "substantial" definition so I stand corrected. Which is good because for 5 years I had to report my "accident" to the insurance company. It never was a big financial hit, but it always worried me at every renewal. I don't think they ever asked about "incidents".

Good deal on the ASRS. You also might consider deleting this thread :yes:
 
Sorry to hear about your incident. You're taking it quite well I'd say. When I put a little hangar rash on my plane I felt like I'd run over my mother.
 
Henning said:
No smoking hole, the flight went perfect, the landing was smooth and controlled. As soon as I heard the prop tips hit the thought to hit the throttles occurred but was immediately dismissed with the counter thought of "Nope, the only time people get hurt in a gear up is when they do something stupid to try and save equipment." I just held her attitude and let her settle in smooth as silk.



Even when things are going wrong, think about what you are doing and you will be fine.
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Great decision! Let this be a lesson to everyone who flys a retractable gear airplane. If you ever hear that awful sound of props on pavement, the only choice is to suck up your pride, close the throttles, and ride it out. Metal will get bent, but, everyone goes home.

Lost two friends/coworkers who opted to attempt to save the airplane. Fortunately, they dropped off their 18 passengers on the previous leg. :(
 
Unregistered said:
Just my two cents, but most human reactions to reading this come in two forms...

A. There but for the grace of God go I...

Or

B. This could never happen to me, thank goodness, because I do "X" that helps me minimize the risks or something therefore I am more "immune" to tragedy than others.

I lean more towards the (a) camp...
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As do I, unless we're talking flying while inebriated or something equally egregious.

I make a point of always performing a printed Pre-landing Checklist, in spite of the fact that on my Light Sport its only 3 items - seat belts, fuel pump and brake check.

And yet periodically I taxi clear of the runway and do my After Landing Checklist, only to find my fuel pump never got turned on.

I chastise myself for getting sloppy, but it still periodically happens.

I do not fly a retractable, but see how it can happen. One of my students, in spite of good habits I hope I instilled in him, managed to gear up a Mooney.

No one's perfect, least of all me. But if I were to assign a probable cause to this one the lack of a checklist would rank higher than fatigue, thought that's obviously a subjective evaluation.
 
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Sorry to hear about this..sucks :( I do appreciate that my Sierra has a pretty substantial gear-horn.
 
Sure makes an stc'd gear horn sound cheap...
 
AggieMike88 said:
Wow.....

I hope it won't be totaled... The world needs all the nice 310's like that we can keep around. Yours has always been on my radar if I ever needed a light twin.

I can't imagine what you must have been thinking when you settled in on the flare lower than normal and realized what as going to happen seconds later.

Empathy for your loss. Dinner/drinks on my tab next time you're in DFW area.
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IIRC 60% value = Total. (YMMV)
 
And Henning seems to be of the same mindset as I. Stuff Happens, OOPs.
Glad it didn't turn south, and all is fine.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Sure makes an stc'd gear horn sound cheap...
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I've known of many an airplane to land gear up with gear horns blaring the entire time - both military and civil ships. . . Not saying a good warning system is a bad thing; just saying it's not a panacea.
 
Couldn't help but say 'oh no' out loud when reading this. Many of us have been there and it just kind of hurts hearing it. Best wishes moving forward, it'll fade into the past.

Jonathan
 
Henning, it's refreshing to see a man who knows and lives his values.
Thank you for posting here.
 
For VFR we go gear before flaps, which makes sure you don't forget the gear, also the gear help bring you down to vfe

For IFR its 3nm from the FAF or 1 dot below the GS.
 
Boy Henning. What a rotten run of luck.
 
Sorry to hear it. :(

Take some solace in the knowledge that at least it didn't happen at OSH.
 
Two things:

-Sorry your pretty bird got bent. Hope the insurance and ticket situations work out to your satisfaction.

-Glad that you're a stand-up enough guy to know and admit where the problem started and ended.
 
Oh the irony! The POA's self proclaimed greatest pilot gears up going to Oshkosh after providing his expert opinion on every topic possible including how to fly into Oshkosh.

Henning, sorry for your loss, no body deserves that to happen to them but take this as an opportunity to look inwards and make some attitude adjustments. And perhaps some remedial training when you get back to the US. Basic stuff like following a checklist, basic CRM, proper landing technique (gear down then flaps down and checking gear down multiple times including on short final, etc).

Look also at the bright side. There was no way you were going to sell that plane for what you were asking. Now you have "sold" it to the devil in a sense.
 
Jeff K said:
On re-reading the 6120 instructions... apparently the curled props/strikes are exceptions to the "substantial" definition so I stand corrected. Which is good because for 5 years I had to report my "accident" to the insurance company. It never was a big financial hit, but it always worried me at every renewal. I don't think they ever asked about "incidents".

Good deal on the ASRS. You also might consider deleting this thread :yes:
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:confused: Why would I delete this thread? I haven't said anything here that I haven't already discussed with the FAA or written on the NTSB form. I have no fear of the FAA or NTSB in this matter.
 
somorris said:
Boy Henning. What a rotten run of luck.
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No bad luck involved, it was a bad decision that ended with good luck, as I said, no injuries. Perspective mate, perspective. Nothing from the past matters, only the future.
 
Aw crap, Henning. :( Very sorry about your plane, and glad that no one was hurt.

There but for the grace of God... I flew my plane from Michigan to Vermont today, the last step in my move, on about 4 hours of sleep and no breakfast, all to get the flight over with before the weather started popping. On top of that my low vacuum annunciator was on the whole way, though the vacuum gauge and the AI were behaving normally. But I was watching them like a hawk all through the flight, so a definite distraction.

Why was there no gear horn in your 310?
 
azure said:
Aw crap, Henning. :( Very sorry about your plane, and glad that no one was hurt.

There but for the grace of God... I flew my plane from Michigan to Vermont today, the last step in my move, on about 4 hours of sleep and no breakfast, all to get the flight over with before the weather started popping. On top of that my low vacuum annunciator was on the whole way, though the vacuum gauge and the AI were behaving normally. But I was watching them like a hawk all through the flight, so a definite distraction.

Why was there no gear horn in your 310?
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Probably wasn't built with one.
 
Henning said:
Probably wasn't built with one.
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From the Cessna 310D POH, page 1-13:

Position lights and a warning horn provide visual and audible gear position
indications to the pilot.
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Page 1-15:

LANDING GEAR WARNING HORN.
The landing gear warning horn is controlled by the throttles, and will sound
an intermittent note if either throttle is retarded below12 inches of
manifold pressure with the gear up.The warning horn is also
connected to the UP position of the landing gear switch,and will sound if the switch is placed in the UP position while the airplane is on the ground.
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Henning said:
:confused: Why would I delete this thread? I haven't said anything here that I haven't already discussed with the FAA or written on the NTSB form. I have no fear of the FAA or NTSB in this matter.
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So you told them you knowingly took off while deeply fatigued and had been up since 3am??? :confused: That's my concern here... sleep/fatigue issues are a big deal in transportation these days... and why I suggested you delete this thread after that admission.

Perhaps I'm less teflon coated then you, but I wouldn't have gone beyond I forgot to put the gear down. You don't need to spoon feed the FAA ammunition for a certificate action. And yes, they take pilot fatigue seriously. It appears I'm trying to critique you on the blue board, what I'm really trying to tell you is to STFU if you give a **** about your certificate.

Law enforcement, including the FAA, is allowed to lie to you during an investigation. Your "buddy", who now is in possession of your pilot certificate, could have been working you. I suspect I'll fail in convincing you, but other pilots reading this should consult with council in the event they are involved in an accident or any event that might potentially involve a conflict with the FAA.

In case you forgot, I'll remind you of something. You're grounded. Let me repeat that. You are grounded with no due process taking place. I personally think you made a big mistake voluntarily turning that certificate in... certainly without advice of council. It could have waited a couple weeks and had the same outcome.

If you were my kid who got in trouble with his driver's license I'd be driving you to the family attorney on Monday morning to try and do some damage control. I hope things work out for you.
 
Henning said:
Hmmm, then I got a faulty annual, because we checked it on the ground and nope. One of the first things the inspector asked about and we checked.
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In that case your insurance company will go after the shop and IA for signing it off. Hope these weren't friends of yours.
 
If the planned replacement is a VFR LSA Amphibian it ain't hard to get re-licensed from scratch...
 
Yes, I analyzed the entire event including the activities of the prior days honestly. He nodded, agreed with my assessment and said, "Well, at least you won't be doing that again." You give the impression that the FAA inspectors are out to get people for mistakes, you're not correct. Their main intent is to make sure you you learned the proper things from the mistake so you are safer going forward. They aren't like your local police who are looking for ways to generate revenue by writing tickets and assessing fines. They can't put me in jail for a gear up. Your paranoia is more concern than my incident.
 
RotorAndWing said:
In that case your insurance company will go after the shop and IA for signing it off. Hope these weren't friends of yours.
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Nope, nice people, but I hadn't met them until I picked up the plane with a fresh annual.
 
Jeff K said:
In case you forgot, I'll remind you of something. You're grounded. Let me repeat that. You are grounded with no due process taking place. I personally think you made a big mistake voluntarily turning that certificate in... certainly without advice of council. It could have waited a couple weeks and had the same outcome.

If you were my kid who got in trouble with his driver's license I'd be driving you to the family attorney on Monday morning to try and do some damage control. I hope things work out for you.
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8900.1, Vol.5,Ch7,Sec1

B. Airman Scheduling Appointment at a Date Later than Indicated. An airman may request an appointment for the reexamination test beyond the time limit stated in subparagraph 5-1419C. However, if the delay is excessive or unjustified, the airman must either schedule the reexamination within a reasonable time, or the airman must place his or her certificate or rating on temporary deposit at the field office. If the airman chooses to deposit the certificate, an inspector issues a 30-day Temporary Airman Certificate with specific limitations (see Figure 5-141, FAA Form 8060-4). Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5 discusses the temporary deposit of a certificate or rating.
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RotorAndWing said:
8900.1, Vol.5,Ch7,Sec1

[/B]
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Exactly, the inspector said "When you know when you're coming home, call me and I'll issue you a temp to practice with." "Do I need it if I just fly with a CFI and then take the ride?" "Not if you do it with Milwaukee, but other FSDOs may want it, and if you don't have it they'll just issue it on the spot for you to take the ride with."

The reason I deposited it with him is because I'm 'grounded' regardless. I don't have the time in Italy to go flying, and this avoids going through a suspension.
 
RotorAndWing said:
8900.1, Vol.5,Ch7,Sec1

[/B]
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I know you know that, but his accident happened on Tuesday and he is a layman. If he waited 2 weeks he still could have done that and it would have been a decision based on knowledge. The man didn't even consult an aviation attorney.
 
Jeff K said:
I know you know that, but his accident happened on Tuesday and he is a layman. If he waited 2 weeks he still could have done that and it would have been a decision based on knowledge. The man didn't even consult an aviation attorney.
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I was given all the information to make an informed decision by the FAA guy, I was not forced or coerced. I could not have done it in 2 weeks very well because I will be in Italy by Monday night and not return until likely end of October.
 
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