How to have an incident

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Given the reputation of this board, I've been thinking about why it's taken 7+ pages for this thread to finally break down. POA definitely has more than its fair share of pedants, or guys that seem to love nothing more than to post merely as a vehicle to point out their extensive knowledge and experience. I roll my eyes just as much as the next guy when this happens. :)

But at the same time, 10,000+ hours (for example), even when applied to a blowhard, is still 10,000+ hours. If you've got a lot of time in the cockpit of an airplane, whether it's GA, military, airline, or whatever - you've almost undoubtably done some s**t that's shaken up some of your earlier preconceived ideas about what will never happen to you. And after awhile, you learn to know better than to give a ration of crap to someone that just accomplished one of those things in the 'never' category. Especially when that person owns up to it and doesn't make excuses, as Henning did.
 
Win Kinner was the most high time CFI I knew and began flying before WWII. In the early 90s he flew into the side of a mountain down in Cabo. :sad:
 
Just goes to show, it's possible for someone to be incredibly immature on any post on PoA :p

Sorry for your loss Henning, glad you made it out okay!
 
kayoh190 said:
Given the reputation of this board, I've been thinking about why it's taken 7+ pages for this thread to finally break down. POA definitely has more than its fair share of pedants, or guys that seem to love nothing more than to post merely as a vehicle to point out their extensive knowledge and experience. I roll my eyes just as much as the next guy when this happens. :)

But at the same time, 10,000+ hours (for example), even when applied to a blowhard, is still 10,000+ hours. If you've got a lot of time in the cockpit of an airplane, whether it's GA, military, airline, or whatever - you've almost undoubtably done some s**t that's shaken up some of your earlier preconceived ideas about what will never happen to you. And after awhile, you learn to know better than to give a ration of crap to someone that just accomplished one of those things in the 'never' category. Especially when that person owns up to it and doesn't make excuses, as Henning did.
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+1 :yes:

Nicely written sir.
 
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Jeff K said:
Not accurate. While the bar is quite low, it does exist and isn't for "ANY reason". It has to relate to your competency as a pilot and there has to be a specific reason to suggest it is in question.
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Here is the text of 49 USC 44709(a), my emphasis.
Reinspection and Reexamination.— The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may reinspect at any time a civil aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, design organization, production certificate holder, air navigation facility, or air agency, or reexamine an airman holding a certificate issued under section 44703 of this title.
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At any time does not mean after any particular action, statement, or lack of action has taken place.

So, under what circumstances do you claim a 44709 ride cannot take place?
 
MAKG1 said:
So, under what circumstances do you claim a 44709 ride cannot take place?
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If for example the investigator doesn't like the color of your shirt or your wife rejects his sexual advances as a reason for the 709 ride.

I posted the FAA policy manual on this earlier, the 709 ride can take place if the investigator has reason to feel you might not be qualified to hold the certificate in question. The bar is very low, just not non-existent as you earlier claimed.

B. Basis for Reexamination. The reexamination of an airman on the basis of lack of competency is never to be undertaken lightly. There must be ample or probable cause for requesting the reexamination. In most cases a reexamination will result from the inspector’s investigation of an accident or incident where the airman’s competence was the apparent cause of the occurrence.
 
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Henning said:
Win Kinner was the most high time CFI I knew and began flying before WWII. In the early 90s he flew into the side of a mountain down in Cabo. :sad:
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The DPE I took my check ride with killed himself in a plane. Picked the plane up from having engine work done. Crashed it while flying home. Worst part of it is he ran out of fuel with fuel onboard. :eek: Outboard tanks were selected and empty inboard tanks had 40 gallons. :mad2:

20+ years running a flight school and thousands of hours.:dunno:
 
Blah, blah, blah. A good pilot should never gear-up, crash, or make a mistake. Okay.

Best wishes, and thanks for sharing Henning.
 
Glad you're ok Henning.

Part of your post sounds familiar. Flew El Paso to Fullerton on Wednesday. Had to work in morning, so got the snot kicked out of me by TB for several hours flying in the afternoon. Caught huge thermals on final resulting in a bounce and go. Bad weather can really sap alertness, strength and energy.

Was surprised only one troll came out anonymously. Hang in there.....
 
hindsight2020 said:
That's the second time in the thread the OP is accused of insurance fraud. Damn this board is getting sideways. :confused:
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Yep, notice that is someone that doesn't have the balls to come out in the open. Takes all kinds. :rolleyes2:
 
Unregistered said:
Don't cry for Henning. He is laughing all the way to the bank. How long has his plane been for sale? Two years? Almost suspicious...
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I will repeat what I posted on the purple board:

May I remind people that you are not completely anonymous for legal purposes, I can have your identity info subpoenaed. You can call me incompetent, you can call me an idiot, you can call me a dumb assed mother ****er, but don't you dare call me a fraud, or you are opening yourself to a defamation of character suit I will follow to the end of time if it causes me issues. Only an idiot would fly into Airventure uninsured.
 
Just got back home and getting back to the OP, don't feel too bad H. I screwed the pooch big time. I didn't bend any metal, but sure hurt my pride.

Forgot to put down the flaps.

My first trip to OSH and I can say I've landed there five times. :nonod:
 
Jeff K said:
If you were my kid who got in trouble with his driver's license I'd be driving you to the family attorney on Monday morning to try and do some damage control. I hope things work out for you.
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What's the bigger lesson: teaching a kid what they did was wrong and to accept the punishment or teaching them that they are above the law because daddy's lawyer will get them off?

I have no problem with how Henning handled this. I would of done the same.
 
Swampfox201 said:
What's the bigger lesson: teaching a kid what they did was wrong and to accept the punishment or teaching them that they are above the law because daddy's lawyer will get them off?

I have no problem with how Henning handled this. I would of done the same.
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Why do you think the country is in such miserable shape? Nobody is responsible for anything anymore.
 
Swampfox201 said:
What's the bigger lesson: teaching a kid what they did was wrong and to accept the punishment or teaching them that they are above the law because daddy's lawyer will get them off?
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Both actually.

You should never ever be interviewed by the police when a potential violation is possible without legal representation let alone allow your minor child to be. Their job, as well as the prosecutors, is to get convictions. It's the judges to met out punishment.

Not being stupid and teaching right and wrong are not mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with how Henning handled this. I would of done the same.
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Good for you but respectfully not everyone would want to do something rash and impulsive in a situation like this. You've got plenty of time for the process to work itself though and their is no need to rush it or make decisions on your certificate on the side of the runway.
 
Unregistered said:
About 5 pages ago before I posted anything else I was going to post that Vince and Jeff k were the same person and that he was fake communicating with himself in some posts and now it looks like that was confirmed on the purple board!
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No... sorry to burst your bubble "unregistered" but I don't need to hide behind a fake name and Vince isn't me , but yes I'm Tucker on the purple board. When Henning started running his mouth about lawsuits I ID'ed myself to him so he could serve me the lawsuit without bothering the moderator.

BTW, notice my avatar?
 
Missouri mourns over having Rush as a native son.

Now we have Vince to add to that list.
 
Jeff K said:
No... sorry to burst your bubble "unregistered" but I don't need to hide behind a fake name and Vince isn't me , but yes I'm Tucker on the purple board. When Henning started running his mouth about lawsuits I ID'ed myself to him so he could serve me the lawsuit without bothering the moderator.

BTW, notice my avatar?
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As I said, unless you post as Rotor & Wing, I was not addressing you. To the best of my recollection you have not insulated I was committing insurance fraud.
 
Henning said:
As I said, unless you post as Rotor & Wing, I was not addressing you.
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And as I said, if you meant Rotor & Wing, then that is who you should have addressed instead of everyone vaguely in that thread.

Henning said:
To the best of my recollection you have not insulated I was committing insurance fraud.
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That's because I didn't.
 
Jeff K said:
And as I said, if you meant Rotor & Wing, then that is who you should have addressed instead of everyone vaguely in that thread.



That's because I didn't.
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Well, since I specifically stated that it concerned those accusing me of fraud, if you didn't accuse me of fraud, why would you feel it applied to you?:dunno:
 
Henning said:
Well, since I specifically stated that it concerned those accusing me of fraud, if you didn't accuse me of fraud, why would you feel it applied to you?:dunno:
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Because you knew exactly who you were addressing (one party) when you wrote that but chose to be vague and applied it to the group. Don't act all confused. Let's walk away from this now OK?
 
Jeff K said:
Because you knew exactly who you were addressing (one party) when you wrote that but chose to be vague and applied it to the group. Don't act all confused. Let's walk away from this now OK?
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I'm not confused, you are. I made a general warning to give something to consider for people ready to jump on that band wagon.
 
vdehart said:
Wow this community is kinda mean :sad:
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You just noticed.:lol:

I feel bad for Henning, and there are several that are probably going to use the opportunity to take cheap shots or bring him down a peg or three.

I believe one of the other posters had an incident as we'll taking off on tip tanks if I recall.

Rather than those that would just say,"dumb a$$" ... I appreciate them posting their experience. Could help someone else in the future.
 
Henning said:
I'm not confused, you are. I made a general warning to give something to consider for people ready to jump on that band wagon.
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Yeah... that's got to be it.

Let me know how it goes on that insurance claim though. It is factual that you got that policy the same day as the accident? My claim on the policy I had held 3 years took 6 weeks before it paid out $85K... like to compare notes once you get to a payoff.
 
Jeff K said:
Let me know how it goes on that insurance claim though. It is factual that you got that policy the same day as the accident? My claim on the policy I had held 3 years took 6 weeks before it paid out $85K....
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Is there an exclusion period on aircraft insurance?
 
I take the whole point of the thread to be the accident chain can happen to ANYONE.

And if a person thinks it can't happen to them, I'll go out on a limb and say, that person is a fool.

I'm not in the insult or insurance/fraud/crazy/debate/issue, and I don't know who the douchebag's are/is in this thread and I don't care. All I know is, know your limitations.
 
Flymeariver said:
Is there an exclusion period on aircraft insurance?
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Did you mean after you bind the policy (not in my experience) or did you mean after an accident? Not in my experience either although that may vary.

I got a proposed renewal for the PA32 (the accident airplane) that only went up $100 because of the accident. In fact, Chartis was very clear they wanted to keep my business.

I went without an airplane for a few years but after I got my twin (with 10 ME hours) I had multiple bids. I had to write up my accident but the broker helped me with that. After 5 years most don't even ask.
 
Jeff K said:
Yeah... that's got to be it.

Let me know how it goes on that insurance claim though. It is factual that you got that policy the same day as the accident? My claim on the policy I had held 3 years took 6 weeks before it paid out $85K... like to compare notes once you get to a payoff.
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Yes, that is factual. For the prior week when I found out I'd be able to get the time off for sure up until Monday I had been working with another agent that was a flake and wasn't getting back to me. I had lunch on Monday with EppyGA at LZU and asked for his agent as I wasn't going to fly into Airventure uninsured. That agent got back to me Tuesday on schedule and we bound the insurance.
 
Jeff K said:
Did you mean after you bind the policy (not in my experience) .
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Meant like when buying disability ins there is generally a 6 month exclusion period where no payouts, didn't know if was same in aviation. ( I rent due to club being way cheaper....therefore no insurance as they cover me and the A/C)
 
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