Fuel hoses

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
24,897
Location
UQACY, WI
Display Name
Display name:
iMooniac
Hi all,

I found a leaky fuel hose in the Mooney - A Stratoflex 156F001-4S-0220. From what I've been able to find so far, that means it's a rubber hose, 1500 PSI, 0.219" ID with silicone fire sleeve, 22 inches long, meeting TSO C53A as a Type C fuel hose.

It's original to the airplane - Manufactured 23 years ago Friday. While our engine is slighly past TBO, we're not planning to overhaul it until it tells us we need to. I'm going to cut the fire sleeve off this leaky one and see what it looks like underneath, and I may decide to replace all of the hoses now.

Does anyone have a good source for hoses? I've already contacted Spruce as well as a couple of Mooney service centers (even though these aren't Mooney-specific parts, maybe they have a package deal).

Does anyone have any recommendations about replacing with stock vs. Teflon? What is the real difference in longevity? Does Stratoflex vs. Aeroquip matter at all?

Thanks!
 
From my AP:

A.E.R.O. hose shop. Ask for Gino.
 
Precision Hose Technology PHT.
Some of these hoses, well mainly the fittings, are breathtakingly expensive now.

And if the fittings are reusable type (ignoring the debate on that), it is possible to buy the hose and have an A&P fabricate them (ignoring the debate on that).
I have done many hoses but won't do hydraulics - no way to test them.
 
The VAF crowd is happy with Aircraft Specialty Services.
 
Aviall. I took the old hoses to the local Aviall shop, they built new ones while I waited. Of course they weren’t very busy and let me watch. Besides, Boeing needs the business.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I have done many hoses but won't do hydraulics - no way to test them.
Click to expand...

I built the (now 19 year old) teflon/braided steel/firesleeved hoses in my RV-6 and also created a test rig for them from a hydraulic jack with a rotary wheel that moves the piston. That rig was capable of generating 4,000 PSI. I tested everything to 2.5x operating pressure.
 
kyleb said:
I built the (now 19 year old) teflon/braided steel/firesleeved hoses in my RV-6 and also created a test rig for them from a hydraulic jack with a rotary wheel that moves the piston. That rig was capable of generating 4,000 PSI. I tested everything to 2.5x operating pressure.
Click to expand...

nice!
 
I sure would love a local-ish solution (southern WI, northern IL/IN). I see Aviall isn't any closer than Denver, and two of the shops are in Tulsa. AERO looks like it's closest, near St. Louis.

I still haven't gotten a straight answer back from Spruce, and it sounds like Spruce doesn't even make their custom hoses that they advertise. Haven't heard back from the two Mooney service centers I contacted.

Thanks for the help so far! Now, anyone have any hints as far as installing them?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Precision Hose Technology PHT.
Some of these hoses, well mainly the fittings, are breathtakingly expensive now.

And if the fittings are reusable type (ignoring the debate on that), it is possible to buy the hose and have an A&P fabricate them (ignoring the debate on that).
I have done many hoses but won't do hydraulics - no way to test them.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I just replaced every single hydraulic system flex hose in the Aztec two weeks ago. Most were 19 years old, but we found two that were original Piper from 1979. We made up all the hoses in the shop, almost all the old fittings were reusable. Tested them using the electric drive hydraulic power pack used to perform gear swings and other function tests on the plane.

flyingcheesehead said:
Hi all,

I found a leaky fuel hose in the Mooney - A Stratoflex 156F001-4S-0220. From what I've been able to find so far, that means it's a rubber hose, 1500 PSI, 0.219" ID with silicone fire sleeve, 22 inches long, meeting TSO C53A as a Type C fuel hose.

It's original to the airplane - Manufactured 23 years ago Friday. While our engine is slighly past TBO, we're not planning to overhaul it until it tells us we need to. I'm going to cut the fire sleeve off this leaky one and see what it looks like underneath, and I may decide to replace all of the hoses now.

Does anyone have a good source for hoses? I've already contacted Spruce as well as a couple of Mooney service centers (even though these aren't Mooney-specific parts, maybe they have a package deal).

Does anyone have any recommendations about replacing with stock vs. Teflon? What is the real difference in longevity? Does Stratoflex vs. Aeroquip matter at all?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

23 years old means it doesn't owe you much; you got more than adequate service life out of it, especially if it was in the engine compartment. :thumbsup:

In addition to the hydraulic system hoses, I also put complete new Stratoflex hose kits on both engines. Couldn't really justify the premium for teflon (especially if you are getting 23 years out of the stock hoses!).
 
Last edited:
3393RP said:
I think any Parker Store can build compliant hoses, using Aeroquip or Stratoflex products. There are three located in the area you specified.

https://www.google.com/search?q=par...motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

As you are probably aware, PTFE Type D hose can be substituted for Type C rubber hose.
Click to expand...

Excellent, thanks!!! I had no idea those existed. One of them is even right on my way to the airport!

I've requested quotes from AERO and the ParkerStore now as well. I'm requesting prices for both Type C and Type D from all of the suppliers.

Tomorrow, I'm gonna pull the fire sleeve off the hose and see what the underlying hose looks like and decide whether to do all of them. Here's the offender:

IMG_4113.jpg
 
Last edited:
Parker should be able to get hose with integral fire resistance. That seems like a great idea, because then there's no sleeving that might prevent discovery of a problem with the hose.
 
GRG55 said:
23 years old means it doesn't owe you much; you got more than adequate service life out of it, especially if it was in the engine compartment. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Very true. And it really wasn't the hose's fault it failed, IMO. That Adel clamp you see above was at a cockeyed angle, causing extreme wear... You can see the outer jacket of the firesleeve is breached... And it is pretty brittle and flaky now. None of the others have any damage or visible wear, though, so with an engine overhaul likely coming in the not too distant future, I'll leave the rest alone if the hose part looks like it's in good condition on the non-damaged portions once I get the fire sleeve off.

In addition to the hydraulic system hoses, I also put complete new Stratoflex hose kits on both engines. Couldn't really justify the premium for teflon (especially if you are getting 23 years out of the stock hoses!).
Click to expand...

What were you seeing for the price difference?

If I decide to do just the one hose now, I probably won't get Teflon... And then we'll probably replace them all with teflon when we do the engine overhaul.
 
I think I read somewhere hoses should be changed every 10 years. Don't have time to look it up now but I'll try to find the reference.
 
AKBill said:
I think I read somewhere hoses should be changed every 10 years. Don't have time to look it up now but I'll try to find the reference.
Click to expand...

I am not absolutely certain, but I think there may be a requirement that hoses in commercial service airplanes be changed at 10 year intervals, but this does not apply to privately owned non-commercial airplanes.

The best external indication I use to tell if a hose needs to be considered for replacement is how flexible it is. As they age the rubber hoses get noticeably more stiff (and brittle), and you can tell if you just try to bend them a bit in place. Of course those subject to heat in the engine compartment, and/or carrying hot fluids, are much more susceptible to this and age faster than hoses elsewhere in the airframe. I decided to re-do all mine in the engine compartment during the annual this winter because my oil cooler hoses were hard as a rock, and the last hose kit installed 20 years ago included one fuel line that was not fire-sleeved (both engines were identical), which probably conformed to the original Piper specifications from 1979, but I did not want to leave it that way.
 
Last edited:
FORANE said:
Strongly recommend replacing all now. The others can't be too far behind. I say this as one who has had a braided fuel line fail and spray fuel at the back of the instrument panel in flight...
Click to expand...

Our failed hose was just spraying a fine mist onto the muffler, no biggie :yikes:

flyingcheesehead said:
Here's the offender:

View attachment 73066
Click to expand...

Looks exactly like our dead hose. FWIW, we replaced all the hoses on our 2000hr engine and 200 hrs later ended up overhauling the engine. And, just for fun, decided to go from the A3B6D to the A3B6, and guess what, the new old fuel hoses didn't fit. Yay!
 
I'll also recommend AERO hose shop. Very quick turn around, good pricing (better than PHT). Get the teflon hoses with integral fire sleeves. Nice clean install. You can send them your old hoses, they'll duplicate (usually same day) and send right back.
 
Normally in hydraulic circles hoses are proof tested to 150% of operating. Anything proofed to 250% of operating would be a candidate for scrapping if that exceeded 150% of rated operating.
 
tsts4 said:
Actually I'd say the VAF crowd is even more happy with Tom Swearengen over at TSFlightlines https://www.tsflightlines.com/home.html . He made some braided brake lines and firesleeved fuel lines for my RV-10. Top notch service and quality.
Click to expand...

Tom does a great job. I sent one Vans supplied hose to him for modification and had him fabricate 3 other custom hoses for the RV-10. He received my hose on Thursday and I had all 4 hoses in hand the next Saturday. Amazing service.
 
What are you guys paying for the average hose?
Make em yourself, with your fittings can be $10-20
One large dia oil hose with integral firesleeve and a couple of uncommon fittings on mine was $500.00 :(
 
Engine compartment hose life limits

Aeroquip 601 may be as short as 2 years (ref: Lycoming)
I remember reading the FAA suggests 8 years or 1000 hours for most non-teflon hoses.
Aren't teflon hoses without life limit "but be reasonable about that"?
There are ADs for hose inspections on some a/c too.

Anyone else have info on hose life limits?

an older article:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2006/january/01/airframe-and-powerplant
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
What are you guys paying for the average hose?
Make em yourself, with your fittings can be $10-20
One large dia oil hose with integral firesleeve and a couple of uncommon fittings on mine was $500.00 :(
Click to expand...

It's a wee bit more than $10 or $20 per hose to purchase. :)

The 11-hose firewall forward kit for each of my IO-540s cost $1865 (Stratoflex). Includes oil, fuel, hydraulic and vacuum hoses, all except the vacuum hoses are fire sleeved.

We made up and replaced all the remaining hydraulic hoses, re-using the fittings, for the rest of the airframe, none of which are firesleeved. I don't remember the per foot cost of the hose, but $15 or $20 per hose sounds about right for roughly what that cost me.

I couldn't see enough value in trying to do that for the engine compartment hoses given the wide variety of them and the firesleeving.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Engine compartment hose life limits

Aeroquip 601 may be as short as 2 years (ref: Lycoming)
I remember reading the FAA suggests 8 years or 1000 hours for most non-teflon hoses.
Aren't teflon hoses without life limit "but be reasonable about that"?
There are ADs for hose inspections on some a/c too.

Anyone else have info on hose life limits?

an older article:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2006/january/01/airframe-and-powerplant
Click to expand...


Pretty much, there is no chance in hell I'd be flying around with 20 year old rubber hoses in any of the following applications: hydraulic landing gear/retraction extension system, engine oil cooling system, or fuel system.
 
3393RP said:
I think any Parker Store can build compliant hoses, using Aeroquip or Stratoflex products. There are three located in the area you specified.
Click to expand...

I got a message back from the Parker Store: "As long as it does not go on an airplane we will try to make it."

:mad::mad3::mad2::incazzato:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I got a message back from the Parker Store: "As long as it does not go on an airplane we will try to make it."

:mad::mad3::mad2::incazzato:
Click to expand...
How did they know it was going on an airplane? Lots of reasons a guy needs hoses...

"Make a new one just like this one" works pretty well.

As to the legality. That's for you and your mechanic to work out. You don't need the Parker store's permission, nor is their permission of any value, no reason to seek it.
 
I just ordered 10 teflon hoses for my 550 in the Bonanza from PHT....
I cut the metal tags off all my hoses and called to give them the part numbers. It cost like $1050.....
All mine were dated 1994 so it was time. There was a crash at our airport a few years back. FAA ruled the cause of the accident bad fuel hoses. They said the inside can come apart and close up???
I figured I better be safe than sorry. $1000 isn't worth me crashing my newly acquired Bonanza.
I fly uninsured so those new lines are my insurance :)
 
jesse said:
How did they know it was going on an airplane? Lots of reasons a guy needs hoses...

"Make a new one just like this one" works pretty well.

As to the legality. That's for you and your mechanic to work out. You don't need the Parker store's permission, nor is their permission of any value, no reason to seek it.
Click to expand...

That's what I would do.
 
tell them: " make one like this, for an off-road vehicle"
 
nrpetersen said:
Normally in hydraulic circles hoses are proof tested to 150% of operating. Anything proofed to 250% of operating would be a candidate for scrapping if that exceeded 150% of rated operating.
Click to expand...

There's rated pressure for the hose (and fittings) and there's operating pressure. A hose and its fittings may be rated at 500 PSI. But you use it in a low pressure fuel system where it operates at 10 PSI, max. Testing to 10PSI x 2.5 = 25PSI isn't a problem.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I got a message back from the Parker Store: "As long as it does not go on an airplane we will try to make it."
Click to expand...
A couple of race shops turned me away when I was sourcing hoses for my RV-4. I finally learned to say, "It's for my RV." I gave that answer at the place I ended up getting most of my first-run hoses and the guy behind the counter said, "RV, huh? We get a lot of guys putting 'em on airplanes." I laughed and gave what had to be a dumb look and he said something like, "Yeah, you don't look like an RV-guy. C'mon back and I'll show you around."

Nauga,
hosed
 
jesse said:
How did they know it was going on an airplane? Lots of reasons a guy needs hoses...

"Make a new one just like this one" works pretty well.

As to the legality. That's for you and your mechanic to work out. You don't need the Parker store's permission, nor is their permission of any value, no reason to seek it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I realized that it's likely that they think FAA-PMA approval is needed, which if you're a shop and not the owner of the aircraft, it probably is.

But, while I was on my way there, I called the last place I hadn't tried: The parts manager at the FBO where I used to be based across town. He tends to have a lot of random stuff in stock, and knows where to get things quickly if he doesn't have them. It turns out they had started up their own hose shop, and they made me one while I waited for $50 cheaper than the cheapest quote I'd gotten elsewhere. Done.

Took it to the airport, put it on, tested it, works great. And it looks a lot smaller - Turns out the factory hoses, while they are size 4, had size 8 and 10 fire sleeve on them for some reason.

We also took the fire sleeve off the old hose. Of course, it looked pristine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top