For those who don't have ADSB......

Unit74

Unit74

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Unit74
Into DFW class B Friday morning, this I what ADSB showed me. I found it invaluable to know where traffic was and where it was going. For those who have not embraced the technology, it's only a matter of time you do. The mandate is set and I highly doubt it will be halted, so might as well join the party.
 

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Unit74 said:
Into DFW class B Friday morning, this I what ADSB showed me. I found it invaluable to know where traffic was and where it was going. For those who have not embraced the technology, it's only a matter of time you do. The mandate is set and I highly doubt it will be halted, so might as well join the party.
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Wow, that's impressive. For now I'm still a renter, and just have to hope an F16 doesn't get too close.
 
Do you find you're more eyes in the panel with ADSB?
 
James331 said:
Do you find you're more eyes in the panel with ADSB?
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Yes, but I'm OK with that in this environment. Out on the magenta line airspace, I'm more outside the cabin though.

On the way out today, I got 6 vector changes and three traffic warnings before I hit the edge of the bravo. Only saw one aircraft, but had the other two on the 430 zoomed into 2 miles. No sweat.... W/o the ADSB, I'd be frantically scanning the sky thing to figure out if that is bug splatter or an AC.
 
Well that last time I was in class B was...never.
The last time I was in class C was...four years ago.
So in 250+ hours of flying I was in class C or more restrictive once.
Installing ADS-B? I'll get right on it...
 
I'll worry about ADSB when it will display on something more robust than an iPad (and no, a Windows tablet is definitely NOT the answer!). Then of course, I need panel space to mount the display, but the only spot I have available is right where the required-but-won't-be-needed-because-it's-being-replaced transponder is squatting in the way.

There's only so much panel space to go around, and more equipment keeps being added to the required list. So I'll just stay out of B and C, and go my own way. But my transponder is required to be on, so I should show up for ya'll. see you out the windshield, be sure to wave at the mark on your tablet when I go by! ✌️
 
I'll stick to my eyeballs, the standard issue eyeball has a much better track record in aviation than TIS, ADSB, etc.

There have been a few times that's it's happened, I'll hear some traffic called out, see it on the box and sit fat dumb and happy thinking I'm in the clear, fact is I'm not and there is a ton that even ADSB doesn't and won't ever show.

Think of it as foreflight synthetic vision, I no more trust ADSB to show me all the traffic than I do foreflight SV to keep me safe in mountainous IMC.

It's nice to have, but is far from the saftey net many people believe it is, and that makes is less safe than not having it at all.
 
I'm not one of those anti-tech fogies that thinks anything 'new-fangled' is bad. Far from it, I would love to participate in the program. If there was any way I could turn the unit on, and squawk something like 1200 just showing where I am and still remain anon, I'd buy one up in a second.

My understanding though is that once you turn it on, you are out there, naked to the world. Not gonna do it.
 
James331 said:
I'll stick to my eyeballs, the standard issue eyeball has a much better track record in aviation than TIS, ADSB, etc.

There have been a few times that's it's happened, I'll hear some traffic called out, see it on the box and sit fat dumb and happy thinking I'm in the clear, fact is I'm not and there is a ton that even ADSB doesn't and won't ever show.

Think of it as foreflight synthetic vision, I no more trust ADSB to show me all the traffic than I do foreflight SV to keep me safe in mountainous IMC.

It's nice to have, but is far from the saftey net many people believe it is, and that makes is less safe than not having it at all.
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Very important point, that. I disagree with the rest of what you say because I think that, used correctly, ADS-B can greatly enhance safety by showing you where to look for traffic that ATC has called out to you, and sometimes by alerting you to traffic that they haven't said anything about (it happens sometimes). But you're right that there's a lot of traffic out there that it doesn't show, and thinking that you're safe as long as nothing is showing on the screen is a false security. ADS-B is just another tool in the toolkit: if used correctly it can help you be safer than before. Used incorrectly, flying around with your head in the panel looking for traffic on the display, it's a recipe for a midair disaster.

Hank: ADS-B traffic (and weather) can be displayed on installed hardware like a GMX-200 MFD, and probably some glass displays as well. All those solutions are pretty expensive though, and the GMX-200 is no longer being made and no one knows how long Garmin will continue to support it.
 
docmirror said:
I'm not one of those anti-tech fogies that thinks anything 'new-fangled' is bad. Far from it, I would love to participate in the program. If there was any way I could turn the unit on, and squawk something like 1200 just showing where I am and still remain anon, I'd buy one up in a second.

My understanding though is that once you turn it on, you are out there, naked to the world. Not gonna do it.
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I hear ya

There's this though.

http://www.navworx.com/navworx_store/Certified_TSO_STC_ADS_B_Transceivers/ADS600_B.html

Full ADSB in and out, with this sweet feature

AutoStealth(tm) Mode:

The UAT technology is the only ADS-B equipment that will allow for privacy. Normally, ADS-B devices transmit the aircrafts ICAO number, a unique code that is assigned by the FAA to each aircraft. When flying VFR however, there is no need to let the FAA know who you are. The ADS600-EXP randomizes the ICAO whenever the squawk code is set to 1200. In addition, the N-Number of the aircraft configured is changed to "N0", an unassigned N-Number.
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azure said:
Very important point, that. I disagree with the rest of what you say because I think that, used correctly, ADS-B can greatly enhance safety by showing you where to look for traffic that ATC has called out to you, and sometimes by alerting you to traffic that they haven't said anything about (it happens sometimes). But you're right that there's a lot of traffic out there that it doesn't show, and thinking that you're safe as long as nothing is showing on the screen is a false security. ADS-B is just another tool in the toolkit: if used correctly it can help you be safer than before. Used incorrectly, flying around with your head in the panel looking for traffic on the display, it's a recipe for a midair disaster.

Hank: ADS-B traffic (and weather) can be displayed on installed hardware like a GMX-200 MFD, and probably some glass displays as well. All those solutions are pretty expensive though, and the GMX-200 is no longer being made and no one knows how long Garmin will continue to support it.
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If you read into what I said a little more, I agree with you.

The trouble is many folks are eyeballs inside more than before with this stuff, if the OP would have taken a photo out the window of a little spec and said "I would have totally missed this guy if not for my ADSB" that would have been 10,000x more impressive.

Just like the foreflight SV, it's a great aid, but the second you jump to the screen before your windows (in VMC) you're doing it wrong :yesnod:
 
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In class c/b (and if I ever make it up to class a), you do pretty much do what the radio tells you to do. Adding ADSB would be a nice backup and I'll likely pull the trigger.

Out where I do most of my flying, well, too many yellow two seaters and those peek ducks for me to be looking inside for very long.
 
The OP's photo shows exactly what you would expect at any busy Class B area, lots of traffic, but not all of them are threats.
As for ADSB, no thank you, I won't be adding any anchors to my Champ.
 
The ADSB is good because it shows you where to look.
 
docmirror said:
I'm not one of those anti-tech fogies that thinks anything 'new-fangled' is bad. Far from it, I would love to participate in the program. If there was any way I could turn the unit on, and squawk something like 1200 just showing where I am and still remain anon, I'd buy one up in a second.

My understanding though is that once you turn it on, you are out there, naked to the world. Not gonna do it.
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lol...you really think if someone wanted to track you they'd do it with your transponder/ads-b out?
 
MichiPilot said:
lol...you really think if someone wanted to track you they'd do it with your transponder/ads-b out?
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If you wanted to track someone with a ADSB out plane, it sure would be the easiest way.

If the idiots ever go full euro with their user fee scheme I'm sure there would be some traffic camera type program that monitored and mailed out bills when ever it saw a plane on ADSB.


Frankly I'm in the same boat, it's really just not info I need to be sending out for no reason, nor is it anyone's business, same reason my tail number is blocked.
 
Unit74 said:
Into DFW class B Friday morning, this I what ADSB showed me. I found it invaluable to know where traffic was and where it was going. For those who have not embraced the technology, it's only a matter of time you do. The mandate is set and I highly doubt it will be halted, so might as well join the party.
Click to expand...


Yikes! I think I would just shut my display off and have all that traffic disappear. :D
 
How many of those that you didn't see with your eyes, but saw on the crappad would have actually been an issue?

"0h n0z! I c4n't s33 tr4ff1c 5 mil3z away! teh suxx0rz!"
 
frfly172 said:
The ADSB is good because it shows you where to look.
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So... when I was flying through upstate NY earlier this year, and happened to come across two powered paragliders at 6000', they weren't on approach's radar and wouldn't show up on ADSB. Only saw them because I was looking outside, doing my scan, like a nervous low time pilot.
 
I think any form of traffic (TIS, ACAS, ADS-B) awareness is a safety benefit. I look at the airspace like being at the beach and wondering how many sharks are around you. Sure the chances of getting "bite" are rare but nothing wrong with knowing where your threats are.

Don't know how many times our TCAD has alerted me to something I might not have seen. I cross MTRs at low altitude on a daily basis and on more than one occasion it's alerted me to jet traffic. I've seen ATC traffic before they even issue it. Just have to split your time between inside and outside.
 
I had traffic in my Cirrus (L3 Skywatch) for about 4 years and 500 hours or so.

Nice to have. That's about it. Never came close to saving my bacon flying in all sorts of airspace, and was often just distracting. Also led to a $2,700 flat rate repair when it went inop.

Don't have it in my Sky Arrow and don't miss it.
 
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igorek82 said:
Does foreflight issue warnings when traffic gets too close ?
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I do get warnings from Foreflight when traffic is close, for instance, 2 miles. But I'm not sure if there is a setting to determine how close is too close or not. And I believe I started getting those warnings on FF when I started using the Stratus II.
 
frfly172 said:
The ADSB is good because it shows you where to look.
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Unless the traffic you should be looking out for isn't showing up (not all traffic shows up)... now you're concentrating your scan in the wrong direction!

I'm all for ADSB but a lot of times folks think they can just look at the fancy screens and all is good. Bad idea.
 
frfly172 said:
The ADSB is good because it shows you where to look.
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Where do you look when the screen looks like the one in the original post? Perhaps eventually the software will get to the point that it filters out all the blips that are "not a factor". At the moment, screens like that provide information overload.
 
rocketflyer84 said:
Unless the traffic you should be looking out for isn't showing up (not all traffic shows up)... now you're concentrating your scan in the wrong direction!
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Fixating is bad, whatever instrument you're fixating on. ;) Don't see the traffic they called out? Eyes outside!

On audio alerts: I get them from my GMX-200, but it's a mixed blessing. Because of a system bug and because I have ADS-B out (a GDL-90), it often gives spurious alerts because ownship can be sensed as conflicting traffic. (The first time it happened was a real WTF moment.)
 
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a question I need cleared up. If I avoid class B and C, do I have to get the ADSB transponder?
 
No you don't but...

My problem with the ADS-B mandate is the mode C veil. I'm based eight miles outside of the circle so I could get by without it but it's going to present an extreme inconvenience. I've lived here most of my life and have been able to go pretty much anywhere I want without ever touching B or C. Come 2020 I either fork out the funds for an ADS-B out anchor for at least one of my airplanes or face a permanent flight restriction covering 700 square miles of nearby airspace and half a dozen local airports. :mad2:
 
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Unit74 said:
Into DFW class B Friday morning, this I what ADSB showed me. I found it invaluable to know where traffic was and where it was going. For those who have not embraced the technology, it's only a matter of time you do. The mandate is set and I highly doubt it will be halted, so might as well join the party.
Click to expand...

Actually, the only thing mandated is the "Out" part, the "In" stuff is optional. Why people wouldn't want it is a mystery.
 
OkieFlyer said:
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a question I need cleared up. If I avoid class B and C, do I have to get the ADSB transponder?
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As long as you stay in the U.S. and below FL 180, you can get a UAT Out device instead of the ES transponder.
 
Silvaire said:
No you don't but...

My problem with the ADS-B mandate is the mode C veil. I'm based eight miles outside of the circle so I could get by without it but it's going to present an extreme inconvenience. I've lived here most of my life and have been able to go pretty much anywhere I want without ever touching B or C. Come 2020 I either fork out the funds for an ADS-B out anchor for at least one of my airplanes or face a permanent flight restriction covering 700 square miles of nearby airspace and half a dozen local airports. :mad2:
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Thanks. There would be no such inconvenience for me. I flew into Class C once or twice during flight training back in 2011. Haven't been back since then. However, I plan to fly into Tulsa on a semi regular basis in the future. The airport I will use is in the outer ring of the airspace and I could actually slip in under the veil. I figure that will represent maybe 1% of my flying, so dropping a few thousand bucks for that seems silly to me. Of course, when my transponder craps out, I'll just get the mode-s.

Henning said:
Actually, the only thing mandated is the "Out" part, the "In" stuff is optional. Why people wouldn't want it is a mystery.
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Because some of us don't like spending money on something that we won't use. If I ever flew into congested airspace, I would want it. It makes perfect sense for those that do so, and I'm glad that the technology is available for them. If I ever flew into congested airspace, I would want it too, but I don't. OKC and Tulsa Class C would be the most probable places I would need the Mode S transponder, but those airspaces aren't crowded enough, and I don't visit them often enough, for me to feel the ADS-B In is all that useful to me. Of course, that's just my situation, and I don't claim to speak for anyone else. I would imagine, however, that there are many more like me. That said, there is a decent possibility that my already old transponder will crap out sometime in the next 4.5 years anyway, so I'll replace it with the mode s. Not a huge deal really.
 
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Silvaire said:
No you don't but...

My problem with the ADS-B mandate is the mode C veil. I'm based eight miles outside of the circle so I could get by without it but it's going to present an extreme inconvenience. I've lived here most of my life and have been able to go pretty much anywhere I want without ever touching B or C. Come 2020 I either fork out the funds for an ADS-B out anchor for at least one of my airplanes or face a permanent flight restriction covering 700 square miles of nearby airspace and half a dozen local airports. :mad2:
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Yup - this. Ya know what I haven't heard, and can't find? There is currently an exception for planes in the mode-C veil without engine driven electrical systems. You can fly around all day, not squawking anything if you don't have a gen/alt. Is that going away? If not, I'll tear out my alternator, and stick a wind-drive out my window. Or, get an old TW plane and just use a wind driven gen for radio and my iPad.

My thinking is that the current exception will go away, and nothing without an ADS-B out is allowed inside the veil.
 
The non-electrical exemption remains but as before only applies to aircraft originally certificated with no electrical system.

Something that is rarely mentioned is the provision for non ADS-B equipped aircraft to operate in ADS-B airspace with ATC permission. It remains to be seen however what the general policy will be in providing those permissions.
 
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OkieFlyer said:
Thanks. There would be no such inconvenience for me. I flew into Class C once or twice during flight training back in 2011. Haven't been back since then. However, I plan to fly into Tulsa on a semi regular basis in the future. The airport I will use is in the outer ring of the airspace and I could actually slip in under the veil. I figure that will represent maybe 1% of my flying, so dropping a few thousand bucks for that seems silly to me. Of course, when my transponder craps out, I'll just get the mode-s.



Because some of us don't like spending money on something that we won't use. If I ever flew into congested airspace, I would want it. It makes perfect sense for those that do so, and I'm glad that the technology is available for them. If I ever flew into congested airspace, I would want it too, but I don't. OKC and Tulsa Class C would be the most probable places I would need the Mode S transponder, but those airspaces aren't crowded enough, and I don't visit them often enough, for me to feel the ADS-B In is all that useful to me. Of course, that's just my situation, and I don't claim to speak for anyone else. I would imagine, however, that there are many more like me. That said, there is a decent possibility that my already old transponder will crap out sometime in the next 4.5 years anyway, so I'll replace it with the mode s. Not a huge deal really.
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What about weather? You're in OK and you have no desire for weather? It's all of a few hundred bucks to get all the IN products on a variety of devices.
 
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