Clearance Delivery VFR

Turbo

Turbo

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Is it frowned upon to use clearance delivery when departing VFR? :dunno:
 
Depends on the towered airport. Some require you use CD, others rather you make your request with ground. ATIS will often provide a clue. At a Class C or B airport, typically yes. Class D, typically no (with many exceptions).

As far as using the CD remote frequency at a non-towered field, it seems most would rather you just make your contact in the air (Washington DC SFRA excepted, of course).
 
Brad Z said:
Depends on the towered airport. Some require you use CD, others rather you make your request with ground. ATIS will often provide a clue. At a Class C or B airport, typically yes...
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Yes, it's frowned upon, or yes, you should use clearance delivery?
 
At my local Class C airport, ISP, Everyone is required to contact clearance delivery, whether VFR or IFR. Check NOTAM's and the ATIS. Each airport is different. Some require you to contact clearance delivery some will just let you contact ground on initial call-up
 
I have often wondered this myself. I trained in and currently fly out of KCID (class C). My instructor told me to contact ground for my initial VFR clearance so that is what I do. One time, ground requested that I contact clearance first. I haven't flown into another class C. I would like to know what the appropriate action is for VFR flights.
 
Brad Z said:
Depends on the towered airport. Some require you use CD, others rather you make your request with ground. ATIS will often provide a clue. At a Class C or B airport, typically yes. Class D, typically no (with many exceptions).

As far as using the CD remote frequency at a non-towered field, it seems most would rather you just make your contact in the air (Washington DC SFRA excepted, of course).
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As Brad says, it depends on the airport. You can always ask the Ground Controller what is their preferred method. Sometimes Ground and CD are the same guy and you'll get the help you're requesting.

At KDTO, I usually will ask for VFR FF right after I have my clearance to enter the movement area. I tell them my destination and desired cruise altitude (since we're under a Bravo shelf). By the time I am at the runup area, I have my squawk and frequency.
 
kujo806 said:
I have often wondered this myself. I trained in and currently fly out of KCID (class C). My instructor told me to contact ground for my initial VFR clearance so that is what I do. One time, ground requested that I contact clearance first. I haven't flown into another class C. I would like to know what the appropriate action is for VFR flights.
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Some towers in Class C airspace prefer to have departing VFR aircraft make the initial call to clearance delivery. At these airports the ATIS should include a statement indicating that preference as there's otherwise no reason a departing VFR aircraft would call clearance delivery.
 
So lets say you are departing an airport with class E airspace, right outside the perimeter of a class B airspace with intentions to obtain a VFR flight following through the class B after departure. Would it be alright to go ahead and contact Clearance Delivery before departing the class E?
 
Turbo said:
So lets say you are departing an airport with class E airspace, right outside the perimeter of a class B airspace with intentions to obtain a VFR flight following through the class B after departure. Would it be alright to go ahead and contact Clearance Delivery before departing the class E?
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Affirmative.
 
Turbo said:
So lets say you are departing an airport with class E airspace, right outside the perimeter of a class B airspace with intentions to obtain a VFR flight following through the class B after departure. Would it be alright to go ahead and contact Clearance Delivery before departing the class E?
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Some will allow you to do that but most prefer you just take care of that in the air. They can't give you a clearance until they've radar identified you anyway, so you might as well do it in the air. CD at a remote field is intended for use by IFR traffic that is holding up airspace in the class E for either a release or an approach.
 
Brad Z said:
Some will allow you to do that but most prefer you just take care of that in the air. They can't give you a clearance until they've radar identified you anyway, so you might as well do it in the air. CD at a remote field is intended for use by IFR traffic that is holding up airspace in the class E for either a release or an approach.
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Right.
It just seemed logical and courteous to me to contact CD before departure so that I could have my transponder set, flight plan open, etc.
 
airguy said:
Flight following, I've done it often. Get your squawk and departure freq before taxi.
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Depends on the airport. At a Class B/C airport, it's pretty much mandatory to get a squawk/freg before taxi (ATIS will normally tell you whether to call Ground or CD for that). At a Class D/E/G towered airport without a collocated TRACON, if you want flight following, you can ask CD (if there is one, Ground if there isn't) for a squawk/freq before taxi; odds are they'll tell you just to call the TRACON/Center once airborne, but there's no harm in asking.
 
Turbo said:
It just seemed logical and courteous to me to contact CD before departure so that I could have my transponder set, flight plan open, etc.
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You can ask GND/CD about a squawk/freq for flight following, but ATC will not normally take care of opening a VFR flight plan -- that generally must be done by calling FSS yourself.
 
Ron Levy said:
You can ask GND/CD about a squawk/freq for flight following, but ATC will not normally take care of opening a VFR flight plan -- that generally must be done by calling FSS yourself.
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Thank you Ron!
 
At most class B airports (including IAD where I was based for years) you call clearance delivery (and yes you need a clearance).

At most every other airport, I've done my VFR departure requests with ground. I've called CD at class C airports and usually ground answers anyhow.
 
roncachamp said:
That's commonly done via ground.
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Yup, but procedures vary all over the map.

A counterexample is KCOS. Contact CD on engine start, make the departure request, contact ground for taxi clearance, contact tower for takeoff clearance.

KOAK works like you say. CD is for IFR only and the departure request is made with Ground.

KLVK (Class D) uses Ground only for taxi clearance (including the parallels -- most of the Class D's with significant training cede those to Tower), and departure requests are made at the last instant with Tower.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, but procedures vary all over the map.

A counterexample is KCOS. Contact CD on engine start, make the departure request, contact ground for taxi clearance, contact tower for takeoff clearance.

KOAK works like you say. CD is for IFR only and the departure request is made with Ground.

KLVK (Class D) uses Ground only for taxi clearance (including the parallels -- most of the Class D's with significant training cede those to Tower), and departure requests are made at the last instant with Tower.
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See message #10.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, but procedures vary all over the map.

A counterexample is KCOS. Contact CD on engine start, make the departure request, contact ground for taxi clearance, contact tower for takeoff clearance.
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As was Teterboro..KTEB (class D) when I trained there in 1998/99. I haven't been there in 14 years, so I'm not sure if it's still the same.
 
Austin KAUS requires everybody to call Clearance Delivery before taxi. It's on the ATIS.
 
I've never flown at an airport that does this, would you normally just call ground and let them direct you as to what they want?

I fly out of a class D and we have a separate ground and tower frequency but it's the same person answering. The script is pretty much this...

"Eau Claire ground, Archer 6185H is at hangars G row with the weather, ready to taxi. Will be departing northwest."

"Archer 85H, runway 22 taxi via A."

"22, taxi via A, 85H"

*taxi, then runup, switch to tower frequency*

"Eau Claire tower, Archer 85H ready for takeoff on 22."

"Archer 85H, cleared for takeoff runway 22. Right turn at your discretion"

"Cleared for takeoff 22, 85H"

Then at the boundary of the airspace
"Eau Claire Tower, Archer 85H is clear of D airspace"

"Roger 85H, frequency change approved, good day."

At this point if we want flight following, we call Minneapolis center.

Our tower/ground is not busy at all and you normally have all the time in the world to ask for get any clarification you need in plain English. If I want a different runway or to do something unusual... I can just ask and 9/10 times I'll get it. From conversations I've had with other pilots, especially here, my tower experience isn't typical?

I read these discussions about clearance delivery and people having to wait several minutes to depart and things of that nature and it makes me a bit nervous about going somewhere busier. A busy day at KEAU means I might be #2 to land or have to extend a downwind or something.
 
Class B/C, yes, they have radar separation requirements. The CD imputes your information into the system (that eventually goes to the departure controller).

Class D, no, VFR seperation services are not provided. There is no VFR clearancd to deliver. The ATIS may advertise VFR call up CD first, then do so, that may be more manpower issue at busy Class D's to relieve the ground controller position.

TRSA, the only one I have ever been to the ATIS said VFR "call clearance delivery and advise direction of flight". I treat a TRSA as a voluntary Class C anyway.
 
I fly into KOAK fairly regularly. If you call CD with a VFR departure, they will tell you to call Ground. No fuss, no muss.

KOAK very seldom has VFR departure delays. Less even than surrounding Class D's. There are generally three runways in use at any given time. One for large jets and two for GA (including biz jets). The commercial and GA terminals are very well separated; the traffic doesn't mix on the ground at all.

It's similar for KMRY. There are two parallel runways and all the 121 traffic uses the longer one (which happens to be closer to the commercial terminal), leaving the shorter one free almost all the time for GA.

On the other hand, it really sucks if you try to depart KSJC at a crunch time. The GA runway has been NOTAMed closed for years, and the Part 121 traffic gets priority.

Class C does not provide separation services for VFR traffic. It only keeps it separate from IFR traffic.
 
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roncachamp said:
What would you use it for when departing VFR?
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Some time back, I was departing Houston Hobby VFR and called ground without calling CD first -- major ass-chewing. Still don't understand the reasoning. :dunno::(
 
N5922S said:
Some time back, I was departing Houston Hobby VFR and called ground without calling CD first -- major ass-chewing. Still don't understand the reasoning. :dunno::(
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Class B, gotta have the VFR clearance to enter Class B, they gottta know who they are separating from the heavy metal. :)
 
Turbo said:
Is it frowned upon to use clearance delivery when departing VFR? :dunno:
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It's always great fun to read all the answers (and petty sniping) posted in response to questions like this, but your best answer will come from calling the tower or TRACON that you're specifically concerned about. I call an ATC facility at least once or twice a year with a question and without exception get good information cheerfully and patiently delivered.
 
cowman said:
I read these discussions about clearance delivery and people having to wait several minutes to depart and things of that nature and it makes me a bit nervous about going somewhere busier. A busy day at KEAU means I might be #2 to land or have to extend a downwind or something.
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There is nothing to be nervous about. You just have to do the research beforehand. Some Class C's want you call CD before ground, some do not care. It's not the end of the world
 
jordane93 said:
There is nothing to be nervous about. You just have to do the research beforehand. Some Class C's want you call CD before ground, some do not care. It's not the end of the world
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I have yet to experience a controller who reacts to a wrong contact with anything other than "Contact XXX at 123.45."

Even when I contacted Ground while inbound to Class D on my check ride.
 
roncachamp said:
What would you use it for when departing VFR?
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Standard procedure at PVD (class C) for VFR departures was to contact CD first to request a clearance to depart. They would provide a squawk and initial departure instructions and then pass you over to ground.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, but procedures vary all over the map.
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Exactly. MYF in San Diego, for example has a published CD freq, but unless it is super busy, they prefer you to get your clearance from ground. If you call CD initially, 9 times out of 10 they will tell you to switch to ground and then they will give you your clearance.
 
What I do is listen to ATIS (if there is one). If it says "VFR flights contact clearance delivery prior to taxi," I do it. If it doesn't say that, but I want flight following and there is a published CD freq, I call CD and make the request. Sometimes they give me a squawk/freg, sometimes they say "Call the TRACON after takeoff." If I want flight following and there is no CD freq, I make that as part of my request to Ground; sometimes they give me a squawk/freg, sometimes they say "Call the TRACON after takeoff."

And that's how I've been handling it for 40-some years with no problems.
 
Ron Levy said:
What I do is listen to ATIS (if there is one). If it says "VFR flights contact clearance delivery prior to taxi," I do it. If it doesn't say that, but I want flight following and there is a published CD freq, I call CD and make the request. Sometimes they give me a squawk/freg, sometimes they say "Call the TRACON after takeoff." If I want flight following and there is no CD freq, I make that as part of my request to Ground; sometimes they give me a squawk/freg, sometimes they say "Call the TRACON after takeoff."

And that's how I've been handling it for 40-some years with no problems.
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:yes:
 
Fearless Tower said:
Standard procedure at PVD (class C) for VFR departures was to contact CD first to request a clearance to depart. They would provide a squawk and initial departure instructions and then pass you over to ground.
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The only clearance required to depart VFR at PVD is a takeoff clearance which is usually not issued by CD or ground.
 
roncachamp said:
The only clearance required to depart VFR at PVD is a takeoff clearance which is usually not issued by CD or ground.
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Yes Steven, we've been through this before with you. You say it isn't required, but many of us who operate out of several Class C airports around the country know that ATC there expects VFR pilots to contact CD first.
 
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