ATC asks me for winds.

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NightSkyReader

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NightSkyReader
On two occasions now I’ve had ATC ask me for winds in cruise. I felt stupid and told them I didn’t know. I mean, I could tell them if I had a head or tail, or what general direction the wind was coming from, but that was about it. They said “Roger,” then asked another pilot who could promptly rattle off the exact direction and velocity, which compounded my insecurity.
So other than whip out my E6B like I’m sitting for a written exam, how was I supposed to gather that information? Are there specific avionics features that will do that? I’m not flying anything super fancy but I have two G5’s with a GTN750. Is there a function to turn on that would give me that data so I can answer back to ATC like I’m not a total newb? (Which I am.)
 
there ARE avionics that will provide this info for you but you should also be able to give them an estimate because, you know, you're paying attention and all........something like "light winds out of the N/E/S/W" or "roughly 25kt headwind/tailwind" kind of thing typically helps.
 
Well you have to understand, ATC really isn’t that familiar with standards in avionics. I’m sure some think it’s a universal capability when it’s not. Really it’s not even a listed PiREP request. If they ask you again in the future, just say unable.
 
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NightSkyReader said:
On two occasions now I’ve had ATC ask me for winds in cruise. I felt stupid and told them I didn’t know. I mean, I could tell them if I had a head or tail, or what general direction the wind was coming from, but that was about it. They said “Roger,” then asked another pilot who could promptly rattle off the exact direction and velocity, which compounded my insecurity.
So other than whip out my E6B like I’m sitting for a written exam, how was I supposed to gather that information? Are there specific avionics features that will do that? I’m not flying anything super fancy but I have two G5’s with a GTN750. Is there a function to turn on that would give me that data so I can answer back to ATC like I’m not a total newb? (Which I am.)
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No reason whatsoever to feel stupid. Just say I don’t know. There is no reason to try to calculate it. Going back about more than 20 years ago RNAV type gadgets, FMS particularly, would give the winds aloft at a glance or maybe just the push of a button. It was a real boon for Controllers to get real time accurate winds, especially up high in the Flight Levels where it could be howling. A little say, just 30 degree vector for maybe just a minute could be the best speed control technique. Let’s ask someone. @Tarheelpilot , @kayoh190 , @Kritchlow , @dmspilot et al ??? At a glance, or do you have to push a button?
 
luvflyin said:
No reason whatsoever to feel stupid. Just say I don’t know. There is no reason to try to calculate it. Going back about more than 20 years ago RNAV type gadgets, FMS particularly, would give the winds aloft at a glance or maybe just the push of a button. It was a real boon for Controllers to get real time accurate winds, especially up high in the Flight Levels where it could be howling. A little say, just 30 degree vector for maybe just a minute could be the best speed control technique. Let’s ask someone. @Tarheelpilot , @kayoh190 , @Kritchlow , @dmspilot et al ??? At a glance, or do you have to push a button?
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On the Airbus, the winds are constantly displayed.
 
Not even a push of the button. A lot of products it’s automatically up there. 173 Kts GS in a helicopter? That’s crazy. :D

CFE170D7-4FF7-4C18-BC85-C38B19FF2D96.jpeg
 
The aspen in my liberty would give you wind speed and direction,on the screen.
 
It may not be available in your airplane, but among the primary users of ATC and IFR (airlines, corporate, etc.), it is becoming so common it's pretty easy to see why controllers wouldn't even think twice about asking. I'd say most of the glass panel cockpits have the capability, and anymore "glass panel" is probably the majority of routine IFR users.

I agree with the others, if you don't know, no big deal, just say so. No need to calculate it.

I am a little surprised that with a GTN750 and two G5's you don't have wind speed/direction displayed already.
 
5A73B5C6-04E1-4592-864D-2F1FD9742DE1.jpeg.6ffa291cf151b7cfd326b7047b99df85.jpeg

The top G5 in this photo shows TAS and OAT.
The bottom HSI appears to show wind direction and velocity in the top left corner.
My units have none of those and I can’t find how to activate them in any of the menu options.

My airplane has a temperature probe on the belly but I think that is for the JPI.
 
Maybe it was a hint from atc that your heading was drifting.
 
will44s said:
Maybe it was a hint from atc that your heading was drifting.
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I actually thought that the first time it happened, but then the other guy was also queried and answered. Also I figured he would have said “Say heading” if he wanted me to correct.
 
The JPI temp probe is not compatible with the G5's. Garmin has their own temperature probe; it's about $500 for the kit. GTP-59 and GAD-13
 
I only usually ask for wind aloft readouts when I am asked by another aircraft. so Im usually asking for a specific altitude (Say winds at FL380). I wouldnt ask a GA plane though... Maybe some of the PC12s that fly around here because I know they are equipped...
 
I’ve been asked before - in a steam gauge GNS430 airplane. It’s a lot of button pushing. I told ATC “sure… we can calculate it. Standby”. Few minutes later I gave it to them. IIRC it’s much easier in a 650/750.


kayoh190 said:
In the Boeing, at a glance:

View attachment 114364
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BENKY5 arrival! You come ‘round these parts often?
 
Screenshot 2023-01-29 at 5.45.47 PM.png
NightSkyReader said:
My airplane has a temperature probe on the belly but I think that is for the JPI.
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If the JPI were capable of sending the temperature data using the Shadin format then the GTN would have enough data to calculate it on its own and you’d just have to go to Utilities->DALT/TAS/Winds and then activate “Use Sensor Data” to get a wind vector. Unfortunately, I don’t think the JPI was programmed to do that. However, I think you can still do that to collect the rest of the G5 data and manually enter the temperature to get the info.
 
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For GTNs, there is a data field to display calculated winds. See upper left window below. Menu>change user fields >wind dir and speed

fc3b841353e7c5a5b2e261e41e5693b9.jpg

Get the stupid PC trainer, it’s free.
 
TCABM said:
For GTNs, there is a data field to display calculated winds. See upper left window below. Menu>change user fields >wind dir and speed
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It’s not very useful unless you can feed it live sensor data. The OP is missing temperature to the GTN, so winds in the data field isn’t useful.
Get the stupid PC trainer, it’s free.
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And to that I say: read up-thread.
 
IMG_0145~2.JPG

Eclipse 550, winds continuously displayed lower left.
 
On the Garmin 430, of you roll your flap screen one click counterclockwise, you can see ground speed. Subtract that from your IAS to calculate an estimated headwind component, or subtract your IAS from GS to get an estimated tailwind.
 
A) I’ve had this asked of me once or twice and can get it from my Aera 660 with some button nugging, so I’ve said “stand by” then given it to them after some nugging.

B) As more and more glass gets sold that’s more capable than my lowly 660, wouldn’t it be cool if such winds data was automatically, passively passed in our ADS-B - out info, then made available as “metadata” (like car traffic) for all of us?
 
NightSkyReader said:
I actually thought that the first time it happened, but then the other guy was also queried and answered. Also I figured he would have said “Say heading” if he wanted me to correct.
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“Say winds” is the super-polite version. I’ve only ever heard it when I forgot to reset my DG near the end of a long flight. Your G5s make that a lot less likely to be the problem, although you should still check the compass against the HSI every so often in cruise. You should also explore the GTN menus a bit to find the DALT/winds calculator and learn how to use it, just because it’s there and you have plenty of time in cruise to explore.
 
asicer said:
It’s not very useful unless you can feed it live sensor data...
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Au contraire mon frere. It answers ATC’s question without creating a self-imposed helmet fire. That’s plenty useful.
 
Kritchlow said:
If you don’t have the capability, just say “I don’t have that capability”.
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Or even better, just "unable." And don't feel bad saying that to ATC. I met a T-38 flight crew who told me, "If you can say 'unable,' you can fly this plane." If it's good enough for the USAF, it's good enough for the rest of us.
 
TCABM said:
Au contraire mon frere. It answers ATC’s question without creating a self-imposed helmet fire. That’s plenty useful.
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The DALT/TAS/Winds page is much more useful for that purpose than burning a data field, especially considering you have to go to that page anyway to enter in the temperature.
 
asicer said:
The DALT/TAS/Winds page is much more useful for that purpose than burning a data field, especially considering you have to go to that page anyway to enter in the temperature.
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Just another horse for a course. As you know, data fields can be changed on the fly, so “burning” one is momentary. Either option answers the OPs question of how to use a GTN to answer ATCs question.
 
TCABM said:
Just another horse for a course. As you know, data fields can be changed on the fly, so “burning” one is momentary. Either option answers the OPs question of how to use a GTN to answer ATCs question.
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True, but you need to deploy option #1 (the utility page) in order to make option #2 (the data field) meaningful. That makes option #2 redundant.
 
The G1000 will show winds.
 
asicer said:
View attachment 114365
If the JPI were capable of sending the temperature data using the Shadin format then the GTN would have enough data to calculate it on its own and you’d just have to go to Utilities->DALT/TAS/Winds and then activate “Use Sensor Data” to get a wind vector. Unfortunately, I don’t think the JPI was programmed to do that. However, I think you can still do that to collect the rest of the G5 data and manually enter the temperature to get the info.
Click to expand...

my JPI830 and 750 fill this page but will not display the wind in one of the four corners of the map page. I need the G5 temperature probe for that.
 
NightSkyReader said:
5A73B5C6-04E1-4592-864D-2F1FD9742DE1.jpeg.6ffa291cf151b7cfd326b7047b99df85.jpeg

The top G5 in this photo shows TAS and OAT.
The bottom HSI appears to show wind direction and velocity in the top left corner.
My units have none of those and I can’t find how to activate them in any of the menu options.

My airplane has a temperature probe on the belly but I think that is for the JPI.
Click to expand...

Gotta have the Garmin GAD13 sensor for the G5s to display OAT and TAS on the ADI and wind dir/speed on the HSI.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/a...ight-instrument-and-g3x-touch-flight-display/
 
I've never been asked, but I can do it on my ancient KLN-94, with a lot of knob twirling and button pushing. Having said that, I frequently do set up the calculation once I'm settled in cruise, and the AP is doing all the hard work....
 
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