Annual inspection

Unless BlueRooster is an IA, they can't do any of the inspection. All they can do is maintenance, Check FAR 65
 
SkyDog58 said:
Actually 43.9 applies after maintenance. 43.11 applies after inspections.
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You are absolutely correct. Because unless Bluerooster is an IA they can't do the inspection.

But we were talking about inspections That's why I quoted 43.11
 
I haven't read that @bluerooster is planning to operate the aircraft until it is returned to service at the end of the annual.

It seemed more like a "here's the progress and plan for my annual" type thread.

As to the legality of flying it during an annual, I tend to agree with @Tom-D
 
Just remember you can do any maintenance at any time you like, but it doesn't count as a portion of the annual inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
You are absolutely correct. Because unless Bluerooster is an IA they can't do the inspection.

But we were talking about inspections That's why I quoted 43.11
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But this is what you wrote.

Tom-D said:
This is not true. anytime you do any maintenance 43.11 applies
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You equated 43.11 with maintenance rather than inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
You can not do the annual in stages,
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That's strictly an opinion. The only limitation on an annual is in 91.409. 43.11(a) simply dictates the format of the inspection logbook entry not how the inspection is performed. The annual requirement is triggered in 91 not 43.
Tom-D said:
there is no provision in 43.11 to sign off a portion of the annual.
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Technically there's no "provision" to specifically sign off an annual in name as 43.11 covers all required inspections under Parts 91, 125, and certain sections of 135.
Tom-D said:
Because the IA must do the inspection,
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That was never the issue?? I thought it was doing the annual in groups was the problem? What if the IA is performing the inspection in groups as stated in the OP?
 
Bell206 said:
That's strictly an opinion. The only limitation on an annual is in 91.409. 43.11(a) simply dictates the format of the inspection logbook entry not how the inspection is performed. The annual requirement is triggered in 91 not 43.

Technically there's no "provision" to specifically sign off an annual in name as 43.11 covers all required inspections under Parts 91, 125, and certain sections of 135.

That was never the issue?? I thought it was doing the annual in groups was the problem? What if the IA is performing the inspection in groups as stated in the OP?
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When the IA does the inspection, as soon as they pull the first panel the aircraft becomes unairworthy until it is returned to service. If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made, The Annual sign off can not be made until the inspection is complete.
 
Tom-D said:
When the IA does the inspection, as soon as they pull the first panel the aircraft becomes unairworthy until it is returned to service. If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made
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Ridiculous.
 
Tom-D said:
When the IA does the inspection, as soon as they pull the first panel the aircraft becomes unairworthy until it is returned to service. If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made, The Annual sign off can not be made until the inspection is complete.
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but Tom....technically....no maintenance was performed....just inspection. So, nothing was done to remove it from service.
 
Bell206 said:
That's strictly an opinion. The only limitation on an annual is in 91.409. 43.11(a) simply dictates the format of the inspection logbook entry not how the inspection is performed. The annual requirement is triggered in 91 not 43.

Technically there's no "provision" to specifically sign off an annual in name as 43.11 covers all required inspections under Parts 91, 125, and certain sections of 135.

That was never the issue?? I thought it was doing the annual in groups was the problem? What if the IA is performing the inspection in groups as stated in the OP?
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Are you saying that an annual inspection isn't covered by 43.11? The FAR tells you the verbiage to be used. it does not give you the option of signing off a portion of an annual.

You can not stop any inspection with out making an entry returning the aircraft to service the work done simply becomes maintenance and not the inspection.

How many log books have you ever seen with half an annual signed off? You either did the annual, or you didn't.

Any maintenance completed can be used as a part of the required check list required in FAR 43-D as long as it was completed by an IA, But the IA can not allow the aircraft to fly with out a return to service entry for the work done.

If you could do an annual in segments, why do we have progressives?
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
but Tom....technically....no maintenance was performed....just inspection. So, nothing was done to remove it from service.
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Inspections are maintenance

FAR 1.1
Maintenance means inspection, overhaul, repair, preservation, and the replacement of parts, but excludes preventive maintenance.
 
Tom-D said:
If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made,
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Tom-D said:
You can not stop any inspection with out making an entry returning the aircraft to service
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Tom-D said:
But the IA can not allow the aircraft to fly with out a return to service entry for the work done.
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I agree.
Tom-D said:
The Annual sign off can not be made until the inspection is complete.
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I agree.
Tom-D said:
the work done simply becomes maintenance and not the inspection.
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Tom-D said:
You either did the annual, or you didn't.
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Those are strictly your opinions.
Tom-D said:
Are you saying that an annual inspection isn't covered by 43.11?
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Tom-D said:
it does not give you the option of signing off a portion of an annual.
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43.11 covers all required inspection record entries, not the performance of the annual. The last entry below is the key 43.11 entry.

So whats the problem with the following if annual due 01/31/2019:
01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

Tom-D said:
How many log books have you ever seen with half an annual signed off?
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None. But have seen a number signed off as above.
Tom-D said:
If you could do an annual in segments, why do we have progressives?
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Apples and oranges.
 
Last edited:
donjohnston said:
Wrong.
If the aircraft is an E/AB, an A&P can perform the annual condition inspection.
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I think BlueRooster's airplane is a PA-28-140, but you're right about not needing inspection authorization to sign off an E/AB annual. If the airplane is an ELSA, all you need to perform and sign off the annual condition inspection is a light sport repairman-inspection (LSR-I) certificate.
 
Bell206 said:
01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

Those are simply maintenance returned to service entries, required when ever maintenance is done when you are flying the aircraft between maintenance periods.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.
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That would complete the annual, because one inspector completed the inspection.

but here is the question, when can any A&P-IA use previous maintenance entries as a portion of the inspection?
Can Blueroosters entries be used as basis for the completion of the annual?
 
Tom-D said:
Not to FSDO ASI's

If think so prove me wrong by FAR.
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Can’t prove a negative. The burden is on you.

The faa has made it abundantly clear that annual inspections are NOT maintenance.
 
Bell206 said:
I agree.

I agree.


Those are strictly your opinions.


43.11 covers all required inspection record entries, not the performance of the annual. The last entry below is the key 43.11 entry.

So whats the problem with the following if annual due 01/31/2019:
01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.


None. But have seen a number signed off as above.

Apples and oranges.
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You just showed us 2 maintenance entries and 1 annual sign off, exactly what I am advocating, I think you just proved my point.
In part 91 we have two methods of complying with annual inspections, progressive in sections provide a way to do annuals in segments.
 
Salty said:
Can’t prove a negative. The burden is on you.

The faa has made it abundantly clear that annual inspections are NOT maintenance.
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Wrong again Salty.
FAR 1.1 Maintenance... you should read, prior to looking stupid.
 
Tom-D said:
Wrong again Salty.
FAR 1.1 Maintenance... you should read, prior to looking stupid.
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Wow. You manage to interpret things in an amazing fashion.

So, my preflight inspection is maintenance and I have to log it in my aircraft logs. Jeeze

The completion of an annual inspection, and removing an access panel are not the same thing.
 
Tom-D said:
You just showed us 2 maintenance entries and 1 annual sign off, exactly what I am advocating,
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Ha! Glad to see your health back to 100%. But don't mince my words. In the example above, I performed the annual inspection over the span of a month with 3 additional flight hours which you stated could not be done. Here, let me fix that just for you...

01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed annual inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed annual inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

No "maintenance" only inspection as my sign off plainly states. Any other definition would by considered falsification under 43.12.

This is the same thing the OP stated without mentioning he flew the aircraft which you said was not permissible. Next!;).
 
Bell206 said:
Ha! Glad to see your health back to 100%. But don't mince my words. In the example above, I performed the annual inspection over the span of a month with 3 additional flight hours which you stated could not be done. Here, let me fix that just for you...

01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed annual inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed annual inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

No "maintenance" only inspection as my sign off plainly states. Any other definition would by considered falsification under 43.12.

This is the same thing the OP stated without mentioning he flew the aircraft which you said was not permissible. Next!;).
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You simple completed three annuals in 3 hours, 2 with non standard verbiage how many times would that happen in real life.

I believe you are wrong about how to complete an annual.

That is given in 43.11 (4&5)
When an A&P-IA starts an annual then stops it, this entry should say
This annual inspection was stoped on (date) with items 1-25 of the check list completed. This aircraft returned to service as safe to fly.
When you attend the IA seminars you get this guidance
 
Tom-D said:
That would complete the annual, because one inspector completed the inspection.

but here is the question, when can any A&P-IA use previous maintenance entries as a portion of the inspection?
Can Blueroosters entries be used as basis for the completion of the annual?
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Tom, I’m usually in your side, but no where did BlueRooster say he was flying the airplane before the entire annual was completed and he never said he was performing the work alone and making logbook entries. I’m not sure why this thread has gone on this long.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Tom, I’m usually in your side, but no where did BlueRooster say he was flying the airplane before the entire annual was completed and he never said he was performing the work alone and making logbook entries. I’m not sure why this thread has gone on this long.
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I made that assumption when Bluerooster said he was goin to button it up. Why would ya do that unless you were going to fly it?
He never said a lot of things, but the implication was there.
And like always, this thread has gone on so long because of thread creep, which is pretty normal here.
I have made my point several times, so I'll quit.
Unless some one else says something stupid. :)
 
bluerooster said:
Has started today. I'm good to go until the end of the month, so we decided to do it by "groups".
Group #1 firewall forward, Group #2, wings and undercarriage, and Group #3 fuselage.

Started group #1 today. Would have had it all buttoned up today, except for the lack of an oil seal for the new vacuum pump, and I decided to dress, and paint the prop. Paint is drying as we speak.
"Boss" sed he'd button it up tomorrow, and park it in it's usual spot.

Next week, I'll undress the wings, and jack it up for the wheel bearings, mabe even new shoes, they're kinda dry cracked. I'll be ordering new fuel drains inna day or so.
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The OP said it was going to be buttoned up and parked.

The next post ...

Tom-D said:
What is this ? some kinda progressive inspection?
Once the annual is started it must be completed and returned to service or an entry made as to why it was stopped and what was completed. (check the FARs)
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Thread creep.
 
Why it takes someone more than a day to inspect a Cherokee 140 is beyond me. There are 1200 parts in the whole airframe. There really isn't that much to inspect. He and an assistant should easily be able to do it in a day.
 
steingar said:
Why it takes someone more than a day to inspect a Cherokee 140 is beyond me. There are 1200 parts in the whole airframe. There really isn't that much to inspect. He and an assistant should easily be able to do it in a day.
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Maybe Bluerooster is the helper and has a job that pulls him away from the airport. Maybe (no, actually) our weather this week is very close to triple digit temperatures with high humidity to add insult to injury. It would take superman (or a 20 year old) to do a one day annual in these conditions.
 
kyleb said:
Maybe Bluerooster is the helper and has a job that pulls him away from the airport. Maybe (no, actually) our weather this week is very close to triple digit temperatures with high humidity to add insult to injury. It would take superman (or a 20 year old) to do a one day annual in these conditions.
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I usually scheduled out annuals for a time of year when it wasn't so danged hot.
 
kyleb said:
Maybe Bluerooster is the helper and has a job that pulls him away from the airport. Maybe (no, actually) our weather this week is very close to triple digit temperatures with high humidity to add insult to injury. It would take superman (or a 20 year old) to do a one day annual in these conditions.
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work at night....dat's what I'm doing. :confused:
 
MIFlyer said:
Have you performed 3 other annuals at night to a full stop in the last 90 days?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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nope....I just do this stuff part-time. Mine is going into two months. ;)

I'm finaly to the point which it "needs" to get done....and that's what I gots.
 
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