Annual inspection

bluerooster

bluerooster

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shorty
Has started today. I'm good to go until the end of the month, so we decided to do it by "groups".
Group #1 firewall forward, Group #2, wings and undercarriage, and Group #3 fuselage.

Started group #1 today. Would have had it all buttoned up today, except for the lack of an oil seal for the new vacuum pump, and I decided to dress, and paint the prop. Paint is drying as we speak.
"Boss" sed he'd button it up tomorrow, and park it in it's usual spot.

Next week, I'll undress the wings, and jack it up for the wheel bearings, mabe even new shoes, they're kinda dry cracked. I'll be ordering new fuel drains inna day or so.
 
What is this ? some kinda progressive inspection?
Once the annual is started it must be completed and returned to service or an entry made as to why it was stopped and what was completed. (check the FARs)
 
Tom-D said:
What is this ? some kinda progressive inspection?
Once the annual is started it must be completed and returned to service or an entry made as to why it was stopped and what was completed. (check the FARs)
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I didn't realize you worked 24/7 until each annual was complete.

Amazing.
 
C/mon, Tom. I'm normally in your corner but you are off base with this one. If I do an engine today, busy tomorrow, do the fuselage on Wednesday, got a gig on Thursday, and wrap the whole thing up on Friday, that's not stretching things out, that's just Life 101. Now if we are talking MONTHS between each session, you MAY have a point. A day or two? Piffle.

JIm
 
Tom-D said:
Once the annual is started it must be completed
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Really? Got a specific reference? It's a calendar inspection which provides a 30/31 day compliance window. The only thing you void is the 13th month option. FARs only state within 12 months. Same goes for 100hr inspections--next due when the inspection was started not finished.

FYI: progressive inspections are over a 12 month period and require local approval.
 
Bell206 said:
Really? Got a specific reference? It's a calendar inspection which provides a 30/31 day compliance window. The only thing you void is the 13th month option. FARs only state within 12 months. Same goes for 100hr inspections--next due when the inspection was started not finished.
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Show me any regulation that says we have a 30 day window.
We all know time limits we have to be airworthy.

What I said was when you stop the inspection, you must make an entry in the maintenance records.. 43.1 (1)
Inspections are maintenance, you do maintenance you must make an entry. When you stop the inspection FAR 43.11 applies.
 
weirdjim said:
C/mon, Tom. I'm normally in your corner but you are off base with this one. If I do an engine today, busy tomorrow, do the fuselage on Wednesday, got a gig on Thursday, and wrap the whole thing up on Friday, that's not stretching things out, that's just Life 101. Now if we are talking MONTHS between each session, you MAY have a point. A day or two? Piffle.

JIm
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You never stopped the inspection. We have no time limit on completion, were you going to button it up and let the customer go fly. If you were you best make an entry as per 43.11 (1) describing what items of the check list were completed.
 
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kyleb said:
The question isn't what I know. It is what in the heck do you know about what Bluerooster is doing?

Zip, zero, nada.

So, as the commercial says "Stay in your lane, bro."
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Fars and annual are my lane. Bluerooster indicate in his post that he was going to do part of the annual, then close it up, later do more and close it up..
That is not what far 43.11 says. (read it)
 
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Tom-D said:
Show me any regulation that says we have a 30 day window.
We all know time limits we have to be airworthy.

What I said was when you stop the inspection, you must make an entry in the maintenance records.. 43.1 (1)
Inspections are maintenance, you do maintenance you must make an entry. When you stop the inspection FAR 43.11 applies.
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So where did the OP indicate he was "stopping" the inspection? o_O
 
Tom-D said:
did you read his post?
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Yes I did. And as usual, you're twisting it to make some inane point. The OP is doing what many owners and/or shops do.

And if you would admit it (which you won't) you do the same thing.
 
My friend’s Cherokee will go more than six months. We found skin damage during the initial inspection....it was ferried to a shop.. they will take months to finish. After that we will complete the inspection. Probably won’t be signed off till Christmas.
 
Tom-D said:
Show me any regulation that says we have a 30 day window.
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I asked first.:)
Tom-D said:
Inspections are maintenance, you do maintenance you must make an entry.
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Never said he didn't have to. A simple entry: "Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b). No defects noted." Will take care of the maintenance entry requirement. 43.11 only comes into play when the annual is completed. This method has been going on since forever. Surprised you don't know about it.
Tom-D said:
When you stop the inspection FAR 43.11 applies.
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Where??
 
He’s not “approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft”, so 43.11 does not apply Tom.
 
I think what Tom is saying is that you can’t do firewall forward inspection, button it all up, fly it all week then do the wings on Saturday, button it up, fly it all week then do the empennage on the weekend, rinse and repeat until everything has been inspected. There is no provision to sign an annual off piecemeal like that.

Maybe that’s not what the OP meant but it kinda sounded like it.
 
Silvaire said:
I think what Tom is saying is that you can’t do firewall forward inspection, button it all up, fly it all week then do the wings on Saturday, button it up, fly it all week then do the empennage on the weekend, rinse and repeat until everything has been inspected. There is no provision to sign an annual off piecemeal like that.

Maybe that’s not what the OP meant but it kinda sounded like it.
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43.11 doesn’t say that. Or anything close to that.
 
Silvaire said:
I think what Tom is saying is that you can’t do firewall forward inspection, button it all up, fly it all week then do the wings on Saturday, button it up, fly it all week then do the empennage on the weekend, rinse and repeat until everything has been inspected. There is no provision to sign an annual off piecemeal like that.

Maybe that’s not what the OP meant but it kinda sounded like it.
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EXACTLY
 
Salty said:
43.11 doesn’t say that. Or anything close to that.
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OH yes it does,
(a) Maintenance record entries. The person approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part after any inspection performed in accordance with part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1), or §135.419 shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

You do any portion of any inspection, you must make the entry.

(1) The type of inspection and a brief description of the extent of the inspection

It can't be more explicit than that. You do any portion of any inspection, before that aircraft can fly legally the entry must be made returning it to service.

Are you so complacent that you don't do that. Do you fly your aircraft with out return to service entries?
 
Salty said:
He’s not “approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft”, so 43.11 does not apply Tom.
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Did he do maintenance? Yes. then he must return it to service,
43.11 certainly does apply.
 
43.5 Approval for return to service after maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration.
No person may approve for return to service any aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance, that has undergone maintenance, preventive maintenance, rebuilding, or alteration unless—

(a) The maintenance record entry required by §43.9 or §43.11, as appropriate, has been made;
 
43.11
(4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found to be airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition.”

(5) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is not approved for return to service because of needed maintenance, noncompliance with applicable specifications, airworthiness directives, or other approved data, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

See any place that you can sign off part of an annual?

All you can do is sign off the maintenance you completed, prior to flight. When all of your entries are enough to be an annual, If the IA feels that is good enough, that is up to them.
 
The OP says he’s buttoning it up and putting it back on the tiedown until they start the next portion of work. He never says anything about flying it in between.
 
Bell206 said:
I asked first.:)

Never said he didn't have to. A simple entry: "Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b). No defects noted." Will take care of the maintenance entry requirement. 43.11 only comes into play when the annual is completed. This method has been going on since forever. Surprised you don't know about it.

Where??
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easy,, read 43.11

(a) Maintenance record entries. The person approving or disapproving for return to service an aircraft, airframe, aircraft engine, propeller, appliance, or component part after any inspection performed in accordance with part 91, 125, §135.411(a)(1), or §135.419 shall make an entry in the maintenance record of that equipment containing the following information:

(1) The type of inspection and a brief description of the extent of the inspection.

You asked first OK
Read FAR 43.11
(4) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is found to be airworthy and approved for return to service, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition.”

(5) Except for progressive inspections, if the aircraft is not approved for return to service because of needed maintenance, noncompliance with applicable specifications, airworthiness directives, or other approved data, the following or a similarly worded statement—“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with (insert type) inspection and a list of discrepancies and unairworthy items dated (date) has been provided for the aircraft owner or operator.”

Where does it say how you sign off part of an annual?
 
Bell206 said:
Really? Got a specific reference? It's a calendar inspection which provides a 30/31 day compliance window. The only thing you void is the 13th month option. FARs only state within 12 months. Same goes for 100hr inspections--next due when the inspection was started not finished.

FYI: progressive inspections are over a 12 month period and require local approval.
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Bu!!$#!+. There is no month compliance window. GIve me a reference other than your local FSDOs requirements, not some made-up rule.
Jim
 
I know lots of IAs who will open one portion of the plane, inspect, and barring any discrepancies close that portion then move on to another portion. And I know others who will open the entire plane, inspect the entire plane, and then close the entire plane. It’s a matter of personal preference and either is acceptable.

The advantages to the first method is that you have less parts laying around and it’s easier to move the airplane to another hangar or out on the ramp if necessary without worrying about all those parts, cowlings, and panels laying around. And for an A&P/IA working at the airlines during the week and GA on the weekends, it’s the best method. It’s also the best method if you are doing owner assist and the owner can’t be there everyday from start to finish.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I know lots of IAs who will open one portion of the plane, inspect, and barring any discrepancies close that portion then move on to another portion. And I know others who will open the entire plane, inspect the entire plane, and then close the entire plane. It’s a matter of personal preference and either is acceptable.

The advantages to the first method is that you have less parts laying around and it’s easier to move the airplane to another hangar or out on the ramp if necessary without worrying about all those parts, cowlings, and panels laying around. And for an A&P/IA working at the airlines during the week and GA on the weekends, it’s the best method. It’s also the best method if you are doing owner assist and the owner can’t be there everyday from start to finish.
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Can I fly the plane in between your inspections as long as the last annual is still in effect?
 
https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_guides/media/faa-g-8082-19.pdf

Page 19.

"Incomplete Inspection
If an annual inspection is not completed, the holder of an IA should: 1. Indicate any discrepancies found in the aircraft records. 2. Not indicate that an annual inspection was completed. 3. Indicate in the aircraft records the extent to which the inspection was completed and all work accomplished."

As long as Mr Owner realizes that the "mission that just has to be done" will result in more expense in the long run, then whatever - as long as I get paid for my work. Splitting an annual is not how I normally do my work. If the owner wants that kind of flexibility, he should be on a progressive program.
 
Tom-D said:
Where does it say how you sign off part of an annual?
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Where does it say you can't? Perhaps it's just not common in the PNW. So long as the OP doesn't exceed the current annual due date he can perform the annual in stages or groups, sign that specific work off, and fly the aircraft. Once the annual is completed, the final annual entry is made. This method has been used since before I got into aviation for decades. And I personally used this method when it was appropriate. Maybe ask your local FSDO?
 
weirdjim said:
There is no month compliance window.
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You took my answer out of context to the OP. If he didn't want to be penalized for any available time on his current annual he could start the inspection on the 1st of the month and finish it by 30th/31/st of the month. This allows use of the aircraft during the inspection. However, it's all dependent on the IA as this method does not work well in a high volume shop environment.
 
simtech said:
@bluerooster I bet you never thought your innocent post would turn out like this?
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Isn't that the truth!

Most people reading this thread fully understood what the OP was saying. It's what many owners do with their airplane.

Yet once again we have the self proclaimed expert jump in and try to derail a thread with a twisted opinion of the regulations.

But, like you said, it's PoA.
 
Bell206 said:
So long as the OP doesn't exceed the current annual due date he can perform the annual in stages or groups, sign that specific work off, and fly the aircraft. Once the annual is completed, the final annual entry is made. This method has been used since before I got into aviation for decades. And I personally used this method when it was appropriate. Maybe ask your local FSDO?
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You can not do the annual in stages, you do maintenance and sign that maintenance off, then the A&P-IA will sign the annual inspection as completed IAW 43.11 (4 & 5) there is no provision in 43.11 to sign off a portion of the annual.And it is totally up to the A&P-IA if they will allow help in that respect. Because the IA must do the inspection, they can not delegate the responsibility for the annual.
 
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