Annual inspection

steingar said:
Why it takes someone more than a day to inspect a Cherokee 140 is beyond me. There are 1200 parts in the whole airframe. There really isn't that much to inspect. He and an assistant should easily be able to do it in a day.
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The Cherokee I do usually takes two days and a bit. Includes a few fixes and the owner pulling the panels and interior. FWF and gear one day, everything else the second. Depends what I find.
 
I usually try to fix things* as they are noticed so the IA doesn't find much.



*With an A&P looking over my shoulder - working on getting rid of that guy.
 
Tom-D said:
When the IA does the inspection, as soon as they pull the first panel the aircraft becomes unairworthy until it is returned to service. If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made, The Annual sign off can not be made until the inspection is complete.
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The current annual inspection is good until the end of this month. The A&P has signed the Engine mx, (prop paint/balance, and new vacuum regulator) with appropriate log entry. Next week, we'll perform mx on the wings, and undercarriage. A&P will sign off said mx. The following week. we'll perform mx on the fuselage, and tailfeathers. At that time, the IA, (same guy as the A&P) will then sign off the annual inspection, as he will have inspected the entire aircraft by that time. Whether or not the airplane will be flown between stages remains to be seen. But the mx will be duly logged, and returned to service, as it is performed, and the inspection will be logged when all is completed.
Nowhere did I mention that the airplane will be flown, between stages. But it will still be legal to do so, as mx will be logged. And is still in annual.

Now, had the annual inspection run out, then all bets are off.

We've been doing it this way for several many years, and the FSDO has no problem with it.
 
Tom-D said:
When the IA does the inspection, as soon as they pull the first panel the aircraft becomes unairworthy until it is returned to service. If the IA stops the inspection an entry returning the aircraft to service must be made, The Annual sign off can not be made until the inspection is complete.
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Nowhere in my initial post did I mention anything contradictory to that.

C'mon Tom, you're better than that.
 
Now, awaiting Tom's response..............

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bluerooster said:
The current annual inspection is good until the end of this month. The A&P has signed the Engine mx, (prop paint/balance, and new vacuum regulator) with appropriate log entry. Next week, we'll perform mx on the wings, and undercarriage. A&P will sign off said mx. The following week. we'll perform mx on the fuselage, and tailfeathers. At that time, the IA, (same guy as the A&P) will then sign off the annual inspection, as he will have inspected the entire aircraft by that time. Whether or not the airplane will be flown between stages remains to be seen. But the mx will be duly logged, and returned to service, as it is performed, and the inspection will be logged when all is completed.
Nowhere did I mention that the airplane will be flown, between stages. But it will still be legal to do so, as mx will be logged. And is still in annual.

Now, had the annual inspection run out, then all bets are off.

We've been doing it this way for several many years, and the FSDO has no problem with it.
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As I said it should be. You do maintenance, you log it. 43.9, You complete an inspection you sign it off. 43.11
 
bluerooster said:
C'mon Tom, you're better than that.
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I've made my point several times in thread, It's nice to see you finally agree.

The way you put it in your first post is how a progressive inspection is done, thus my question in post #2
 
Tom-D said:
As I said it should be.
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Okay. So what was the difference in context between post #1 and post #85 except that you didn't believe it could be correct as you stated in post #2 ... but was in fact correct as you "said it should be" in #88? Seems most everyone was saying the same thing except for your post #2?;)
 
OK, so the argument is that when you do a piecemeal inspection you have to sign off each segment as you go in the aircraft records. I don't believe that, but even so.

So who is to say that the checklist on your clipboard isn't part of the "aircraft records"? You could paste that checklist into the logbook and it becomes part of the "permanent records". Or you can TRANSFER that part of the "permanent records" when you are all done. That is a prerogative of the IA doing the inspection, how the permanent records are kept. Transferring one part of the permanent records into another part has always been at the option of the IA.

Don't argue with me unless you've got JD to append to your name.

Jim
 
? Seems most everyone was saying the same thing except for your post #2?;)[/QUOTE]
Bell206 said:
Okay. So what was the difference in context between post #1 and post #85 except that you didn't believe it could be correct as you stated in post #2 ... but was in fact correct as you "said it should be" in #88? Seems most everyone was saying the same thing except for your post #2?;)
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Post 2 was a question. Stated nothing,, But I guess you read what you want.
 
Bell206 said:
Okay. So what was the difference in context between post #1 and post #85
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85 was an explanation of post 1 If you can't see that Evelyn Wood has a course to help you.
 
Tom-D said:
Post 2 was a question. Stated nothing,, But I guess you read what you want.
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Okay. But I responded to your statement in post #2:
Tom-D said:
Once the annual is started it must be completed and returned to service...
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. I guess I simply read what you wrote after your two questions. My bad.o_O
Tom-D said:
85 was an explanation of post 1 If you can't see that Evelyn Wood has a course to help you.
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I guess I understood what the OP meant in post #1 without the explanation since I've done inspections this way and flown the aircraft in between. Funny thing is I actually took a Evelyn Wood course as a school project. Unfortunately, I would recommend it to you but it is simply a speed/retention course and not a written comprehension course which appears to be the issue here.
 
I believe there was a misinterpretation of post #1 as it seemed to imply that the guy was going to do a part of the annual inspection and sign it off as a partial then do another part etc... when what he actually meant was that the guy was going to do maintenance and while doing that specific maintenance he was going to also inspect that area and in the end he was going to make one single entry for annual inspection. The interpretation of post #1 was that the IA could have passed away half way through and you could take it to another IA and tell him all he had to look at were the wheels and brakes and the annual would be complete. The annual inspection was complete and signed off on the day the log entry was made. Prior to that, for all intents and purposes, nothing had been accomplished in regards to that.
 
bluerooster said:
"Boss" sed he'd button it up tomorrow, and park it in it's usual spot.
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That's what lead a lot of us astray.
Why would you button it up and park it in its spot, if you weren't intending it to fly.
 
Tom-D said:
That's what lead a lot of us astray.
Why would you button it up and park it in its spot, if you weren't intending it to fly.
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cause he was "done" with that group.....;) I do that...finish that area before moving on.
 
Bell206 said:
I guess I understood what the OP meant in post #1 without the explanation since I've done inspections this way and flown the aircraft in between.
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Then you were illegal, with out a return to service entry, complying with 43.9 And any maintenance completed in these return to service entries can not be a portion of the annual.
Many IAs will except previous look see's ( for lack of a better word) but that is not legal. simply because 43-D says the inspector "SHALL" not the owner or anyone else can.
43-D (a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall,
And that statement is repeated many times in -D which covers what must be accomplished during the Annual inspection.
IOWs the IA must do the inspection. previous maintenance by others people doesn't count for the inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
That's what lead a lot of us astray.
Why would you button it up and park it in its spot, if you weren't intending it to fly.
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"Us"? Who is "us"? The only one that went off the rails was you. Everyone else understood what he meant.
 
Tom-D said:
Many IAs will except previous look see's ( for lack of a better word) but that is not legal.
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Tom-D said:
IOWs the IA must do the inspection. previous maintenance by others people
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For the 2nd.. 3rd... last time... provide the specific reference (not your opinion) where the following scenario is illegal per the FARs where the same IA performs all inspection requirements over a period of time with the annual due 01/31/2019:

01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.
 
Geez it never fails. Why do all of these threads end up becoming a giant ****ing contest.
 
Bell206 said:
For the 2nd.. 3rd... last time... provide the specific reference (not your opinion) where the following scenario is illegal per the FARs where the same IA performs all inspection requirements over a period of time with the annual due 01/31/2019:

01/01/2019, TT.: 1234:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(b),(c),(d),(e). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/12/2019, TT.: 1235:00. Performed inspection per Part 43 Appendix D(f),(g),(h),(i),(j). No defects noted. Opened aircraft, cleaned, and closed up aircraft as needed. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.

01/31/2019, TT.: 1236:00. I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual inspection and was determined to be in airworthy condition. Mike Mechanic AP1234567IA.
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Actually this post complies with the FARs, in as much as an IA did the whole inspection.
Any non-certified person can not make the first two entries, and be legal to use their inspection as a portion of the IA's inspection.
 
Ryanb said:
Geez it never fails. Why do all of these threads end up becoming a giant ****ing contest.
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Because many here don't understand the conversation, or the issues.
 
JAWS said:
The Cherokee I do usually takes two days and a bit. Includes a few fixes and the owner pulling the panels and interior. FWF and gear one day, everything else the second. Depends what I find.
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Repairs are not a portion of the inspection, how long does it require to inspect and write a discrepancy list? Hand that to the owner and sign off the inspection.
 
Doc Holliday said:
"Us"? Who is "us"? The only one that went off the rails was you. Everyone else understood what he meant.
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Count me as one of "us" The original post sounded like partial sign offs for an annual inspection.
 
Tom-D said:
Actually this post complies with the FARs, in as much as an IA did the whole inspection.
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Okay. Then for curiosity's sake, what is the difference between the context of this post (#104) and what the OP stated in Post #1?
 
Doc Holliday said:
Really? How long have you had an A&P/IA?

Had mine for 30+ years.
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I haven’t engaged in the discussion because I have zero experience with it and nothing of value to add - nor have I claimed to.

Nice try.
 
Ryanb said:
I haven’t engaged in the discussion because I have zero experience with it and nothing of value to add - nor have I claimed to.

Nice try.
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But you made this statement:
Ryanb said:
Clearly. Several members above have a history of engaging in these types of threads without having the experience to do so. I call them cowards.
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So you took a swipe at labeling people as "no experience", although the people that have activily engaged in this conversation are experienced A&P/IA's.

So your only contribution here is to come in, take a swipe at some posters to make an inane point that has nothing to do with the thread.
 
bluerooster said:
Whether or not the airplane will be flown between stages remains to be seen.
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That wouldn't be legal, IMO, before I jump out of this thread as quick as in. Suppose some defect occurred in the area already buttoned up during such a flight. The the AI could later be signing off an unairworthy aircraft for return to service. Or suppose a time or cycle-limited inspection interval was completed early in the month, then the hours and cycles flown before the sign-off won't be reflected correctly and will exceed the allowable interval at the item's next inspection.
 
Doc Holliday said:
But you made this statement:


So you took a swipe at labeling people as "no experience", although the people that have activily engaged in this conversation are experienced A&P/IA's.

So your only contribution here is to come in, take a swipe at some posters to make an inane point that has nothing to do with the thread.
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None of us here have any way of confirming anything that you say, because nobody knows who you are, other than someone who acts like an anonymous blowhard sitting behind a computer screen, who uses the alter ego from an 1800's gambler.
 
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