Angry Neighbors (as usual)

I'm not gonna look it up but didn't the AF academy open in around 1960? So, they bought homes next to the AF academy, with the little airport visible from the freeway, and now they want to complain?

GFY. No pity here.
 
At least one person gets it:
El Paso County Commissioner Peggy Littleton drew boos when she told neighbors that they should expect to hear planes if they live near the academy.

"When people live near the ocean, they should expect to hear waves," Littleton said.
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docmirror said:
I'm not gonna look it up but didn't the AF academy open in around 1960? So, they bought homes next to the AF academy, with the little airport visible from the freeway, and now they want to complain?

GFY. No pity here.
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:yeahthat:

And perhaps the Air Force Acadamy should erect signs like this one, found near Whidbey Island NAS, to shut the residents up. :yesnod:


8209611.jpg
 
These are the kinds of idiots that vote in this country:

"What good is it to preserve the peace of our nation if you destroy the peace of our neighborhood?" asked Kent Moore, who lives northeast of the academy and said his house is being buzzed.
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Clearly, there's no point in defending the country from those that would kill chumps like this if he can't be free from airplane noise three months a year as well. Give me quiet skies or give me death apparently.
 
Typical buy a house near an existing airport,pay short money,then complain about the noise. Try to get the airport shut down,and watch your property values rise. Especially if the designate the airport open space.
 
docmirror said:
I'm not gonna look it up but didn't the AF academy open in around 1960? So, they bought homes next to the AF academy, with the little airport visible from the freeway, and now they want to complain?

GFY. No pity here.
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I left there in 1991, and there was absolutely nothing east of the airfield except I-25 and flatlands for miles. I've been back several times since, and I'm amazed at how much it's been built up over the years. These people living east of the airfield complaining about the noise couldn't have had their houses built much before 1998 or so, I'm guessing.
 
People love to complain about noise. We have a similar situation near me. I am only a few miles from Trenton (KTTN). About two years ago Frontier started flying limited flights from there mainly in Airbus 319's, a few times per week. Frontier got a very good response to using KTTN, so they expanded there number of flights, and in fact moved all of their Philadelphia flight operation to KTTN. With that said on a busy day, they may have 10 to 15 operations. KTTN is a fairly busy class D that has been there for many years, and has two flight schools (including ATP), and private jets, etc. A fairly wealthy town named Yardly, PA lies about 5 miles north of KTTN and is in the main flight path. These people have lived there with the airport, no major complaints for a very long time, but only started complaining when a handful of airbuses started flying over them. To my knowledge, Frontier is not planning any large increases in services, and no other commercial airline use or plan to use the airport.
 
frfly172 said:
Typical buy a house near an existing airport,pay short money,then complain about the noise. Try to get the airport shut down,and watch your property values rise. Especially if the designate the airport open space.
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With the legal fiasco over the OLF at NAS Whidbey, the home buyers bought with the understanding that they were in a high noise zone, that noise zone was over 80 DB noise level, they understood that and signed a document saying so.
Advent the change to the Growler, twice the noise level of the EA6B. Documented at 120 DB. And they can't sell because the are under water in the mortgage, because their property values are in the crapper.
 
Many years ago when I was doing mapping we had a project over the AFA. I had to coordinate this with the AFA officials. What I remember is that we were not allowed to fly over the student areas during certain hours because the airplane noise would interrupt classes...

We were not all that low. It was a Cessna 206, not a military jet. Shouldn't they get used to airplane noise?
 
Bonchie said:
These are the kinds of idiots that vote in this country:



Clearly, there's no point in defending the country from those that would kill chumps like this if he can't be free from airplane noise three months a year as well. Give me quiet skies or give me death apparently.
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It's a Catch-22 as the freedom the military buys is the freedom to complain about and sue people for purely selfish reasons and against common interest, the freedom to **** over whomever you want to succeed in your personal endeavors and to be the strongest most powerful individual you can develop yourself into. That is what Freedom in America has come to represent, that is the natural result of "Individual Liberty Above All."
 
frfly172 said:
Typical buy a house near an existing airport,pay short money,then complain about the noise. Try to get the airport shut down,and watch your property values rise. Especially if the designate the airport open space.
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:yes:
 
Of course with all the old 100LL and associated lead resulting from years of use an old airport is more likely to be a superfund site. :P
 
frfly172 said:
Typical buy a house near an existing airport,pay short money,then complain about the noise. Try to get the airport shut down,and watch your property values rise. Especially if the designate the airport open space.
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Right, that's the American way, figure out how to make a profit at someone else's expense.
 
I live right next to an airport, the neighborhood I'm in complained about the noise so they closed a runway and pushed the traffic pattern to the other side. Now they're building houses right under the pattern including a tall apartment building as I understand it, so I can't WAIT to see how this battle works out.
 
Even when I learned to fly in Colorado in the early 80's there were no houses around the academy. In fact, it was damn near desolate from Castle Rock down to the Springs city limit (way past the academy).
 
flyingron said:
Even when I learned to fly in Colorado in the early 80's there were no houses around the academy. In fact, it was damn near desolate from Castle Rock down to the Springs city limit (way past the academy).
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Now it's almost one big city
 
docmirror said:
I'm not gonna look it up but didn't the AF academy open in around 1960? So, they bought homes next to the AF academy, with the little airport visible from the freeway, and now they want to complain?

GFY. No pity here.
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That's how it always works.
 
PeeGee said:
Now it's almost one big city
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Yep. I live in Monument, and not long ago, we were quite distinct from Colorado Springs (according to old satellite photos). Now, you can't really tell that we're not Colorado Springs.
 
I am staying right next to the sea plane base here in Homer, AK. Even I get tired of listening to the super sonic prop tips of the 206s and 185s at 6 in the morning.

The turbine Otter doesn't bother me at all, even the round engine Beavers don't make near as much noise as the props of the Cessnas.
 
Zeldman said:
I am staying right next to the sea plane base here in Homer, AK. Even I get tired of listening to the super sonic prop tips of the 206s and 185s at 6 in the morning.

The turbine Otter doesn't bother me at all, even the round engine Beavers don't make near as much noise as the props of the Cessnas.
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That's so annoying, because it's not like they don't have the room to pull back the prop a bit and still get gone just fine. It's just plain rude and inconsiderate. When you need performance, sure, but if you don't, a little common courtesy never hurt an operation.
 
frfly172 said:
Typical buy a house near an existing airport,pay short money,then complain about the noise. Try to get the airport shut down,and watch your property values rise. Especially if the designate the airport open space.
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Watch them close the airport. Transportation and air commerce goes away. Businesses close or move out of town because they cannot get easy cost efficient reliable transportation for their traveling crews and cannot get parts shipped in "overnight". Business Tax base goes down, personal property tax goes up to cover the difference. Property value suffers, people move away. Another town dies without an airport.
 
drotto said:
People love to complain about noise. We have a similar situation near me. I am only a few miles from Trenton (KTTN). About two years ago Frontier started flying limited flights from there mainly in Airbus 319's, a few times per week. Frontier got a very good response to using KTTN, so they expanded there number of flights, and in fact moved all of their Philadelphia flight operation to KTTN. With that said on a busy day, they may have 10 to 15 operations. KTTN is a fairly busy class D that has been there for many years, and has two flight schools (including ATP), and private jets, etc. A fairly wealthy town named Yardly, PA lies about 5 miles north of KTTN and is in the main flight path. These people have lived there with the airport, no major complaints for a very long time, but only started complaining when a handful of airbuses started flying over them. To my knowledge, Frontier is not planning any large increases in services, and no other commercial airline use or plan to use the airport.
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I'm in the western Chicago 'burbs. not too long ago O'Hare changed landings to a more E/W flow. on days when they're landing 10L or 10R the downwind leg is just north of our house. it's very cool to watch the planes running downwind to base especially the heavies. but the number of noise complaints has ballooned...people complaining that conversations are being drowned out, they're unable to use their backyards, etc. can you hear the planes going over? sure you can but at the altitudes they're flying it's no worse than having the TV or radio on.

the UPRR west line tracks are adjacent to our backyard and there are a lot of trains...commuter and freight...coming past the house every day. occasionally there's one with squeaky wheels or an engine that's seen better days...or reefer cars...they're the worst especially when they park behind the house (UPRR actually means Unlimited Parking Rail Road). but we knew that when we bought the house and frankly most of the time we're oblivious of the trains. sometimes when we have friends over one of them will remark about a train passing that we hadn't noticed. you just tune them out. some folks aren't happy unless they're not.
 
BillTIZ said:
Watch them close the airport. Transportation and air commerce goes away. Businesses close or move out of town because they cannot get easy cost efficient reliable transportation for their traveling crews and cannot get parts shipped in "overnight". Business Tax base goes down, personal property tax goes up to cover the difference. Property value suffers, people move away. Another town dies without an airport.
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That's a compelling sounding story, but can you point to a case? I'm all for more airports and trumpeting the economic benefits but I really doubt a small airport closing would destroy a town unless the town was mainly servicing the airport. (Tourist sight seeing flights, cargo or passenger hub-not a small airport by definition, etc.)

John
 
jsstevens said:
That's a compelling sounding story, but can you point to a case? I'm all for more airports and trumpeting the economic benefits but I really doubt a small airport closing would destroy a town unless the town was mainly servicing the airport. (Tourist sight seeing flights, cargo or passenger hub-not a small airport by definition, etc.)

John
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I agree John. Whether we like it or not, in most cases little airports are not CRITICAL to the success of a town. Nice to have, and they do bring in some money and business, but not critical to the town.

Except to pilots.
 
My daughter is considering buying a home right between Beal AFB and Sac Int. She and her husband consider the air traffic a plus.
 
Old Geek said:
My daughter is considering buying a home right between Beal AFB and Sac Int. She and her husband consider the air traffic a plus.
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we pulled into the Amarillo Overnight RV Park several years back, checked in and parked. 30-minutes later I'm sitting outside in the lawn chair reading and relaxing when I hear and then see a military transport overfly the campground. turns out the campground was under the final approach for a Texas ANG (since closed). I spend the next several hours watching plane after plane approach and fly over at maybe 500' agl. lots of photos and enjoyment. I mentioned that to the CG owners the next morning and they apologized for the noise. I told them it was no issue for us and they should consider charging extra for the entertainment!
 
First sight I had, moving into Texas as I crossed the OK/Tx line were military jets! Trainers screaming past. I knew I'd moved to the right place! Few miles down the road, Sheppard AFB was evident.
 
I live under one of the downwind legs for Moffett Field. They used to fly P3s out of there a lot, so I got really familiar with what the underside of a P3 looks like. Much less traffic over my neighborhood now. The Collings Foundation brings some war birds once a year for display and rides, and I love the sound of those big radials. My only complaint is that by the time I hear them coming, I can't get outside fast enough to get a good look at them!

One year, I called base ops to thank them. I figured they probably got enough complaints that they would enjoy hearing an anti-complaint for once. :)
 
RalphInCA said:
I agree John. Whether we like it or not, in most cases little airports are not CRITICAL to the success of a town. Nice to have, and they do bring in some money and business, but not critical to the town.

Except to pilots.
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In large cities with multiple airports I would agree.

I live in a small town with one runway. As the airport shrinks, so does the economy. If it closes, then there is no outside business coming in.

We do have the railroad, and the average is about 1 train every 5 minutes. I don't understand how people in town can get any peace and quiet because the trains are required to use their air horns at every crossing.
 
Palmpilot said:
I live under one of the downwind legs for Moffett Field. They used to fly P3s out of there a lot, so I got really familiar with what the underside of a P3 looks like. Much less traffic over my neighborhood now. The Collings Foundation brings some war birds once a year for display and rides, and I love the sound of those big radials. My only complaint is that by the time I hear them coming, I can't get outside fast enough to get a good look at them!

One year, I called base ops to thank them. I figured they probably got enough complaints that they would enjoy hearing an anti-complaint for once. :)
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I've lived under the KSFO Big Sur Two arrival for years. At 10,000 MSL, it's hardly noticeable. But there was a recent NextGen addition (SERFR ONE) bringing traffic a whopping two miles further east -- and this time with a hard floor of 10,000 instead of an "expect" at that altitude -- and people are complaining they "can't sleep."

I can't explain that. It makes no sense. I've never been woken up by any passing jet, even the arriving cargo 747s in the middle of the night. The noise made by one passing car is quite a lot louder. Hell, the noise made by the local flock of wild turkeys is much louder. I might notice one if I'm working in the yard and the other local noises are all quiet.
 
Zeldman said:
I live in a small town with one runway. As the airport shrinks, so does the economy. If it closes, then there is no outside business coming in.
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But is it the airport shrinking which is affecting the economy or the economy affecting the airport? How much business comes through the airport? I would say that the more isolated the town, the more dependent they are on their airport. But that also depends on whether or not there is a reason to travel there. The two big reasons I can think of are; natural resources in the area which need workers to develop; and tourism.
 
Everskyward said:
But is it the airport shrinking which is affecting the economy or the economy affecting the airport? How much business comes through the airport? I would say that the more isolated the town, the more dependent they are on their airport. But that also depends on whether or not there is a reason to travel there. The two big reasons I can think of are; natural resources in the area which need workers to develop; and tourism.
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You got a lot of truth there.

So here is the Catch 22 problem in our little town, and probably many others. The economy would grow if the city council would allow the airport to grow. (municipal airport) And the airport would grow if the city council allowed job producing businesses to come, which several want to come but are not allowed.

So now the economy is suffering, and the airport is suffering.

And yes I know, a simple election clearing out all of the old city council would help but the city council is all business owners and well entrenched by family vote.
 
docmirror said:
I'm not gonna look it up but didn't the AF academy open in around 1960? So, they bought homes next to the AF academy, with the little airport visible from the freeway, and now they want to complain?

GFY. No pity here.
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What he said.
 
TrevorHN47 said:
Even the Air Force Academy comes under fire for this? To be honest, even the low flying airplanes sound quieter than my neighbors lawn mower.

http://m.gazette.com/colorado-sprin...orce-academy-training-flights/article/1553148
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For those not familiar with the area, the USAFA owns all the land from the academy east to I-25 (take a look at a sectional). Until recently, pattern for KAFF flew over I-25 (no homes). The neighborhoods involved are on the east side of I-25, on the north side of Colorado Springs. As expected, these are high-end homes built in the last 10-15 years (or later, I don't remember)

No one from well-established neighborhoods in Monument (directly north of the academy) have complained (or at least not en-mass). So this is another case of NewbieNIMBY.

I don't know why the pattern was changed, anyone here know?
 

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Tom-D said:
With the legal fiasco over the OLF at NAS Whidbey, the home buyers bought with the understanding that they were in a high noise zone, that noise zone was over 80 DB noise level, they understood that and signed a document saying so.
Advent the change to the Growler, twice the noise level of the EA6B. Documented at 120 DB. And they can't sell because the are under water in the mortgage, because their property values are in the crapper.
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Curious about your post, I did a little internet browsing. I'm not a statistician, but the 'facts' on this web page smell like a load of BS. I especially like this statement:

They have engines that are much bigger and more powerful with nearly twice the amount of thrust. This is one of the reasons that Growler jets are much louder than Prowler jets (the other reason being that Growlers are less aerodynamically shaped than Prowler jets which cause more turbulence).
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I didn't think anything could be more aerodynamically challenged than an EA-6B. :D

But wait, there's more!

Growler Jets 36 Times more likely to Crash than Prowler Jets

The US Navy would like us to believe that there is no real difference between the older Prowler Electronic Warfare jets and the new Growler Electronic Warfare jets. They have even given their new jets a similar sounding name to their old jets in order to confuse us. The Navy has claimed in many legal documents that there is “no significant difference between the new jets and the old jets. However, the new Growler jets are nothing at all like the old Prowler jets. Growler jets fly twice as fast as Prowler jets (1200 miles per hour versus 600 miles per hour). They have engines that are much bigger and more powerful with nearly twice the amount of thrust. This is one of the reasons that Growler jets are much louder than Prowler jets (the other reason being that Growlers are less aerodynamically shaped than Prowler jets which cause more turbulence).

Another major difference is that Growler jets are much more difficult to fly and not made as well as the older Prowler jets. These two factors have resulted in Growlers and other similar F18 jets (mainly the Hornet) suffering crashes at a rate that is 10 to 36 times greater than the older Prowler jet. This means that Growler jets are 10 times to 36 more likely to crash into a residential neighborhood than Prowler jets. It also means Growler jets are 10 to 36 times more likely to crash into a wilderness area and trigger a forest fire than the older Prowler jets.
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http://washingtonenvironmentalprote...-times-more-likely-to-crash-than-prowler-jets
 
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