Depends on their software for rev rec. They could debit cash and credit a liability and be fine.
Aircraft Spruce - FAILURE in customer service
- Thread starter k9medic
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 9,770
- Location
- Broken Arrow, OK
- Display Name
Display name:
SoonerAviator
Agreed, but it just seems overly complicated when they could just use standard ExWorks/FCA terms and forward to billing when it ships like 99% of everyone else in the retail segment.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,263
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD
I just looked up a Spruce order where two oil filters were shipped at different times (months after) after the bulk of the order was shipped. Everything was ordered in 2022 and the last filter was not shipped until Jan 2023. I was not charged for either filter up front and each filter was a separate charge when it shipped. I *believe* (but am not going to the trouble of checking) that's been the case every time I've had stuff backordered. Apparently the 'charge on order' policy is not rigidly adhered to.
Nauga,
watching out for that tree.
Nauga,
watching out for that tree.
airdale
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,840
- Display Name
Display name:
airdale
WADR actually what is obvious is that you have never managed an inventory of any size. There are many reasons why shelf stock doesn't match the number the software has. One simple one is where a previous order picker took the wrong quantity. The picker doesn't know this, and if he picked too much the POS system will happily sell what it thinks is on the shelf. The only way to minimize errors is regular counts. In my experience, 100% accuracy is nearly unachievable.
If you think managing an aircraft parts inventory would be easy, try controlling an inventory of food or booze.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
I’m almost sure the post you quoted was tongue in cheek.
Daleandee
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 6,877
- Display Name
Display name:
Dale Andee
Received a very early life lesson back when I was a young buck working in an auto parts store. Customer called looking for a throttle cable for fairly rare vehicle. Computer said it was in stock so he said, "hang on to it, I'll be right there." When he got there it wasn't to be found.
After a rightly deserved chewing out by the customer I did manage to rescue the sale as our nearby warehouse had the item in stock and (after I confirmed over the phone and the other store physically confirmed they had the part) he got a ticket for it and went a few more miles to pick up the part.
I went to the manager's office and he understood that I didn't need to be told again about what I did wrong. To say the least I never made that error again.
All to say that it ain't a perfect world and you might as well get used to it. Yes, you can quote me on that ...
After a rightly deserved chewing out by the customer I did manage to rescue the sale as our nearby warehouse had the item in stock and (after I confirmed over the phone and the other store physically confirmed they had the part) he got a ticket for it and went a few more miles to pick up the part.
I went to the manager's office and he understood that I didn't need to be told again about what I did wrong. To say the least I never made that error again.
All to say that it ain't a perfect world and you might as well get used to it. Yes, you can quote me on that ...
Exactly. It's not exactly a feat of amazing skill to write a check for $500 a month (or whatever) to the vendor that wrote software to keep that kind of thing straight. There are at least a couple dozen credible competitors in that space. This stuff wasn't even rocket science in the 80's when I got my first real job at a shipping company.
Pinecone
En-Route
Similar, I had a headlight go out. Ordered for next day delivery. It showed up 6 WEEKS later.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2021
- Messages
- 3,888
- Display Name
Display name:
Albany Tom
I can think of three mail order outfits I use that are really reliable - Digikey, Mouser, McMaster, and B&H photo, and probably in that order. Hope I'm not jinxing them here. I've never had Digikey or Mouser screw up anything, whatever systems they have are good. With McMaster and B&H it's really rare. I haven't used Spruce all that much, but they've been good for me. Most places, including Amazon, maybe 95% right, which sounds good, but it means 1 in 20 orders are screwed up.
schmookeeg
En-Route
This isn't a software problem. This is a problem of having large warehouses with thousands of fiddly little SKUs, many of which are indistinguishable from one another. Shipping the wrong thing, too much of a thing, or just setting it aside while picking the order will render the data stale and unreliable and at some point, someone disappointed.
That they corrected it immediately after OP's harrowing ordeal means they have people trying to keep the sand castle made of cake frosting upright. But entropy reigns.
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2013
- Messages
- 4,263
- Location
- Live from the Grill-o-mat
- Display Name
Display name:
Mantis Toboggan, MD
I think you've summarized the problem very well.
Nauga,
who knows five is right out
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
I think you've summarized the problem very well.
Nauga,
who knows five is right out
I counted to four, not three. Common mistake, apparently.
Modern software? Maybe not? 'Cause if it was "in stock" when you ordered the inventory should have been depleted by the quantity of your order. Shouldn't be a case of someone else's order jumping yours, etc.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
Think about what the OP was buying. Hose by the foot. Inventory is probably decremented by each shipment based on the order quantity, but if the guy in the warehouse cuts and ships 2'3" on a few 2' orders, that last 3' that's supposed to be in inventory is only a foot and a half.
Daleandee
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 6,877
- Display Name
Display name:
Dale Andee
As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.
It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Depends on whether or not someone else was ordering at the same time. There's 1 widget left, and you and I load up the web page for that widget a couple seconds apart. We both go through the motions of putting it in our cart bit it just sits in each one for 20 minutes before one of us clicks check out. There is always a time lag on systems with that large of a database and website and direct entry systems. The processing overhead to refresh every few milliseconds would make for a horrible experience.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.
It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it?
Or a phone order was taken during the time the web order was placed.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2013
- Messages
- 19,561
- Location
- Oakland, CA
- Display Name
Display name:
Bro do you even lift
As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.
It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it?
I shouldn’t speak for kyleb (no relation to ryanb) but I believe he’s pretty much saying the same thing.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
Yeah, that!
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Let me tell you about my ASSCO order last week.
It had exactly everything I ordered.
It arrived extremely quickly.
I was able to order a few of each, of low-cost / no-profit nuts/screws/washers/bolts ie no minimum order, no ‘packs of 50’.
Oh, but another successful, perfect order out of 10,000 just like it is not news.
It had exactly everything I ordered.
It arrived extremely quickly.
I was able to order a few of each, of low-cost / no-profit nuts/screws/washers/bolts ie no minimum order, no ‘packs of 50’.
Oh, but another successful, perfect order out of 10,000 just like it is not news.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2013
- Messages
- 19,561
- Location
- Oakland, CA
- Display Name
Display name:
Bro do you even lift
"yeah that" that I shouldn't be speaking for you, that you're not related to ryanb, or that you're saying the same thing?
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
"yeah that" that I shouldn't be speaking for you, that you're not related to ryanb, or that you're saying the same thing?
Exactly. I'm going for intentional ambiguity.
Actually, yeah, that was agreeing with you that I think I'm on the same page as daleandee. And that I'm not related to RyanB (as far as I know). And you're welcome to speak for me, as long as you get it right, which you did.
I think I've cleared it all up now...
NHWannabe
Line Up and Wait
A SOP for any inventory is to do regular cycle counts weekly. A randomizer programs determines a number of SKUs to be verified weekly to catch issues such as the one you described.
Steamflyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2022
- Messages
- 485
- Display Name
Display name:
Steamflyer
Consider Spruce to be spectacular based on about 50 orders over the past say three years. Pretty sure they can't ship filters they don't have, and the rest have never had an issue with. As others have noted, up there with Digikey, Mouser, McMaster, etc. Needed a couple AN960-10L (thin) washers and they let me buy them individually (just an example, other stuff in the order of course as shipping is not included).
No issues with ATS, McFarlane, or Univair either. Though for AOG I do call the latter if really need it to go out the same day as put up online. Textron is good too, though pricey often.
Actually feel fortunate that we have so many good vendors in this space - plenty of examples elsewhere less good...
No issues with ATS, McFarlane, or Univair either. Though for AOG I do call the latter if really need it to go out the same day as put up online. Textron is good too, though pricey often.
Actually feel fortunate that we have so many good vendors in this space - plenty of examples elsewhere less good...
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2017
- Messages
- 3,912
- Location
- hopefully not at work
- Display Name
Display name:
Meet the Fokkers
Jared, wake up, you didn't update the SCEET tubing..
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2021
- Messages
- 3,888
- Display Name
Display name:
Albany Tom
I think you've summarized the problem very well.
Nauga,
who knows five is right out
If *I* were shipping products, you'd be lucky if you got half of what you ordered. My checkbook didn't balance until Visicalc was invented.
Daleandee
Final Approach
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2020
- Messages
- 6,877
- Display Name
Display name:
Dale Andee
He is and I agreed with him when I said, "you have now provided one example." If the OP wants to take his business elsewhere that is his prerogative. Inventory mistakes happen and while they can be frustrating for the one waiting for the part it should be understood that such is life sometimes. I'm just not certain this is worthy of it's own thread ...
schmookeeg
En-Route
I don't mind the thread, ish happens and it's handy to vent sometimes, but the whingeing thread title in caps is pure dramallama and I dislike it intensely.
Stevel
Pre-takeoff checklist
QUOTE="SoonerAviator, post: 3404515, member: 20765"]Which tells me they aren't a publicly traded company, as the accountants would be having a conniption over billing prior to shipment/delivery of the products. Creates revenue-recognition problems that Sarbanes Oxley is designed to avoid.[/QUOTE]
Wrong answer. Debit account number [some number beginning with a 1] - 'Cash'. Credit account number [some number beginning with a 2] - 'Unearned Revenue'. Easy peasy.
Account number [some number beginning with a 4] - 'Revenue' is untouched and this sort of accounting entry is perfectly normal and entirely legitimate. There's no accounting issue at all.
The thing that will bite them in the ass is the FTC Mail Order Rule, but even that can often be complied with for 6 weeks while they still have your money that they haven't earned yet. If no ETA is specified at the initiation of the order, that is how long they have without any obligation to do or say anything. That is a ****-poor business practice, but there is nothing stopping them from having such practices.
The OP may or may not have been given an ETA, as defined by the rule. Even if they were, there's still some wiggle room for ACS to screw with them for some number of days while they are holding on to their money.
Wrong answer. Debit account number [some number beginning with a 1] - 'Cash'. Credit account number [some number beginning with a 2] - 'Unearned Revenue'. Easy peasy.
Account number [some number beginning with a 4] - 'Revenue' is untouched and this sort of accounting entry is perfectly normal and entirely legitimate. There's no accounting issue at all.
The thing that will bite them in the ass is the FTC Mail Order Rule, but even that can often be complied with for 6 weeks while they still have your money that they haven't earned yet. If no ETA is specified at the initiation of the order, that is how long they have without any obligation to do or say anything. That is a ****-poor business practice, but there is nothing stopping them from having such practices.
The OP may or may not have been given an ETA, as defined by the rule. Even if they were, there's still some wiggle room for ACS to screw with them for some number of days while they are holding on to their money.
Stevel
Pre-takeoff checklist
If any Accounting Department is limited by software that doesn't allow for an Unearned Revenue journal entry, they need to fire the person who chose that software and anyone who knew about that limitation and didn't get rid of that useless software.
Tell me you've never worked in a warehouse without telling me you've never worked in warehouse.
Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Which they do. Don't need to do bar codes though. I've got over 30,000 part numbers in my system, and barcode exactly 0 of them. We take a physical top to bottom inventory once a year - last year our counts were off on 5 items and were off less than piece count total of 10 on a shipment count of over 125000 items for the year and currently 34000+ units in stock.
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,836
- Location
- Marietta, GA
- Display Name
Display name:
Drake the Outlaw
Which ACS does.
Are you telling me you think they pull out and put a tape measure for all of the pieces of SCAT and SCEET or that they count AN-3 bolts? That's the kind of thing that results in $700 hammers in the military. I'm sure ACS does a fine job inventorying high value items, but I'd bet they are on a very infrequent schedule of taking physical inventory of the low value items.
I've never had to inventory scat tubes or other linear items. But I do know the answer for things like bolts. They weigh them.
bflynn
Final Approach
Almost everything linear is pulled out, measured and cut - rope, chain, cables, tubing, carpet, etc. The only exception I can think of in my career is paper, which is measured in radius, and implies length and weight.
I can confirm weighing hardware. Usually something like - count 10 and weigh to set the each weight for the scale, then count by weight.
bflynn
Final Approach
How are the skus identified and how many of the 30k are you using? I've seen a million part numbers in a system, but there were only about 400 in active inventory.
Nobody knows all 30k part numbers by heart. You might not have them barcoded, but you have a way to identify them and where they are. Simple human FPE will cause about .5% inventory accuracy error.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2014
- Messages
- 9,770
- Location
- Broken Arrow, OK
- Display Name
Display name:
SoonerAviator
We aren't talking about it not being able to be done. I'm saying it's an additional step/risk to deal with at month-end where you're checking every billed transaction to see if it actually shipped and then doing an entry to record billed but not shipped/partial shipments against unearned revenue. It would just be an odd arrangement for a retail company when it would simplify just about everything by not billing until shipment is processed. If something takes months to ship, the reconciliation of that Unearned Revenue account can get messy when we're dealing with thousands of transactions per month.
schmookeeg
En-Route
Tell me you've never worked in a warehouse without telling me you've never worked in warehouse.
Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
Are we saying something different?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Around 10,000. No skus. Mark 20 eyeball to identify based on product label. Segregated and organized by vendors/families/sizes.