[NA]Returning electric rental cars "full"?

I nerded out for a few months after I got the Tesla, but over time it became just another gadget to get something done. A big shiny toaster. I enjoy working on ICE cars, just like I like servicing my airplane engine, but a good EV is such a practical and hassle free experience if your situation is right for it.
You know how to get into service mode? I showed the paramedic at work the other day how to get into his M 3 service mode. Lot of neat things in there. Disregard the crapload of alerts that come up though. If they’re serious faults, they’ll show up while driving.
 
Is X-P100d a Tesla l33t-speaky warning?

Nauga,
who done blowed up
X is the model designator. Musk obviously has an infatuation with the letter X. P because it’s the performance version (0-60 2.9 secs). 100 is the KWh battery. D is because it’s dual motor. I believe it’s the only Tesla in which all versions of the model are dual motor.
 
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You know how to get into service mode? I showed the paramedic at work the other day how to get into his M 3 service mode. Lot of neat things in there. Disregard the crapload of alerts that come up though. If they’re serious faults, they’ll show up while driving.
No, never heard of that. Man, you are the master.
 
My last drive, in the cold, was 283 Wh/mi but it was only a 2mi drive so that doesn't mean much.
IME the cold drives have higher consumption when they're shorter unless you have the car fully preconditioned before you unplug it, due to the additional load imposed by the HVAC. I often see 600+, and have seen 1000+, Wh/mi when I'm still in my neighborhood on the way somewhere, and it goes down a lot from there of course.

In my hybrid, the thing that surprised me the most is that definitely on the road I pay more for electric than using the gas engine.
Given how expensive many of the public charging stations can be, a plug-in hybrid is often better burning gas. Home charging is cheapest, gas in the middle, public charging most expensive.
I think I even pay more charging at home, unless I set the computer to charge in the middle of night.
Really? For me the break-even point was always about $1.85 per gallon. If gas was cheaper than that, it was cheaper to burn gas. Otherwise, it was cheaper to be electric.
But as a doctor on call, I have to be ready to go anytime so I plug it in as soon as I get home.
With a hybrid, you're ready to go anytime as it is, so why not set it to only charge overnight? Or are you called out so frequently that you're always using that daytime charge?
That is surprising. Does it give you a kWh/mi for electric driving? I know hybrids have excellent mpg ratings.
I think he means cost per mile when using a public charging station vs home charging, not the consumption of electricity vs gas.
Is X-P100d a Tesla l33t-speaky warning?

Nauga,
who done blowed up
:rofl: that took me a sec, but it did make me laugh out loud.

As @Velocity173 says, X is the model and P100D is the trim... But in l33t-speak that would be X-Plood, aka "explode". :rofl:
 
IME the cold drives have higher consumption when they're shorter unless you have the car fully preconditioned before you unplug it, due to the additional load imposed by the HVAC. I often see 600+, and have seen 1000+, Wh/mi when I'm still in my neighborhood on the way somewhere, and it goes down a lot from there of course.


Given how expensive many of the public charging stations can be, a plug-in hybrid is often better burning gas. Home charging is cheapest, gas in the middle, public charging most expensive.

Really? For me the break-even point was always about $1.85 per gallon. If gas was cheaper than that, it was cheaper to burn gas. Otherwise, it was cheaper to be electric.

With a hybrid, you're ready to go anytime as it is, so why not set it to only charge overnight? Or are you called out so frequently that you're always using that daytime charge?

I think he means cost per mile when using a public charging station vs home charging, not the consumption of electricity vs gas.

:rofl: that took me a sec, but it did make me laugh out loud.

As @Velocity173 says, X is the model and P100D is the trim... But in l33t-speak that would be X-Plood, aka "explode". :rofl:
Well, now I just got it. I’m a bit slow. :p
 
OK, I've never driven a plug-in hybrid so I wasn't thinking about charging one on a public charger. Never occurred to me that you'd want to do that.

What I've heard, and I don't know how true it might be, is that most PHEVs are not regularly plugged so they don't get as much benefit from the plug-in feature as they could.
 
OK, I've never driven a plug-in hybrid so I wasn't thinking about charging one on a public charger. Never occurred to me that you'd want to do that.
Well, really, you don't. The PHEVs generally have slower onboard chargers plus the option of burning gas to move them down the road. Since they're relatively efficient compared to gas cars, there is a break-even point where it's cheaper to burn gas than it is to use electricity, and the generally-expensive public chargers make that number pretty high. I don't think I ever encountered a paid public charging station that was worthwhile to use when I had a PHEV.
What I've heard, and I don't know how true it might be, is that most PHEVs are not regularly plugged so they don't get as much benefit from the plug-in feature as they could.
That's silly if true. Generally, a plain (non-plugin) hybrid will get better gas mileage than a PHEV that doesn't get plugged in, so if someone doesn't have a place to plug in at home or for free at work, it generally doesn't make sense to buy a PHEV.
 
Yeah I plugged in the Volt every night and every day at work. Roughly 35 miles electric range and 31 mile drive, I hardly ever used ICE. Would’ve kept it if it weren’t for the fact a software “upgrade” reduced all our range by about 10 %. That and the fact my local Chevy service department had only one qualified Volt mech.
 
That's silly if true. Generally, a plain (non-plugin) hybrid will get better gas mileage than a PHEV that doesn't get plugged in, so if someone doesn't have a place to plug in at home or for free at work, it generally doesn't make sense to buy a PHEV.
I think the idea was that while the buyers intended to plug it in at home or work, in practice, they rarely did. I agree, doesn't make sense to have a PHEV if you aren't going to plug it in.
 
Had a Kia EV6 as a rental in CA last year. Almost changed the vehicle when I saw it was an EV but only needed it for a day so I figured I'd give it a shot. Was thoroughly impressed all around, though I didn't need to charge it because I was headed back down the El Cajon pass to San Bernardino so it basically charged back most of what I'd used anyway. Don't recall if I was told a charge level to bring it back at, was rented from Avis. As much as I drive and with the wide range of types of driving I do, I'm not sure I could do an EV as my only vehicle, but I would definitely consider one as a second vehicle. I'm really interested in the Rivian truck.
 
IME the cold drives have higher consumption when they're shorter unless you have the car fully preconditioned before you unplug it, due to the additional load imposed by the HVAC. I often see 600+, and have seen 1000+, Wh/mi when I'm still in my neighborhood on the way somewhere, and it goes down a lot from there of course.
EV batteries are less efficient in extreme cold. Twice in Dec/Jan I left my car at the airport and came back to temps slightly over freezing. Going up the one sustained hill on the highway, the battery can't keep up with the demand and power gets reduced, the cold is the cause. On a Leaf, there is a turtle icon on the dash, it turns off after about 10 minutes. Meanwhile, that was me driving 50 in the right lane with my flashers on.

After about 30 minutes of driving I encounter another hill at home, but now the battery has discharged enough power. The discharge heated up the battery so it's normal and I don't have the power drop again.

In real cold, the batteries can shut down entirely. This winter aside, I don't expect to see that problem in Florida ;D
 
Had a Kia EV6 as a rental in CA last year. ... Was thoroughly impressed all around
I'd like to try one out. I've seen good reviews on the EV5 and EV6.

I would definitely consider one as a second vehicle. I'm really interested in the Rivian truck.
Most families have more than one car so that's the logical way to start. After driving the EV for some time, when it's time to replace the other car you'll have a lot more experience on which to base the ICE vs. EV decision.

The Rivian's have gotten great reviews. They have quite the following. Lots of anticipation for the upcoming R2 and R3 series. Biggest disadvantage I've seen on the R1 is its relatively poor charging curve but that's something that can be improved, even on existing trucks. Rivian has also made big commitments with their charging network putting chargers in more remote areas where their vehicles are more likely to be. i.e. Rivian Adventure Network.

EV batteries are less efficient in extreme cold. Twice in Dec/Jan I left my car at the airport and came back to temps slightly over freezing. Going up the one sustained hill on the highway, the battery can't keep up with the demand and power gets reduced, the cold is the cause. On a Leaf, there is a turtle icon on the dash, it turns off after about 10 minutes. Meanwhile, that was me driving 50 in the right lane with my flashers on.
I don't know a lot about the current Leaf. A Leaf was the first EV I drove back around 2009/10. Just a short drive in a co-worker's Leaf. The Leaf was a trailblazer back then, several years before the Model S. At least back then, the Leaf wasn't a practical car for other than local driving. Looks like the current models have a range of either 149 or 212 miles with 50kW charging. What are its strengths?

Interesting video just out from the Canadian who's been doing cold weather testing of his 2024 Model 3 LR AWD. Cold soaked his car overnight, unplugged, outside, in -35C/-31F, drove it to work and had it sit 8 hours in similar temps, then drove home. He turned on the HVAC from the app ~30 minutes prior to leaving to warm things up. Consumption was way up, though mostly it was used during the preconditioning periods, and regen was unavailable for parts of the drives. Otherwise, it performed very well.


I'm been in -35C but that was at Thule AB in northwest Greenland. Absolutely brutal. It gave the old DC8 I was flying some trouble, too, and they kept it in the heated hangar all night.
 
Had a Kia EV6 as a rental in CA last year. Almost changed the vehicle when I saw it was an EV but only needed it for a day so I figured I'd give it a shot. Was thoroughly impressed all around, though I didn't need to charge it because I was headed back down the El Cajon pass to San Bernardino so it basically charged back most of what I'd used anyway. Don't recall if I was told a charge level to bring it back at, was rented from Avis. As much as I drive and with the wide range of types of driving I do, I'm not sure I could do an EV as my only vehicle, but I would definitely consider one as a second vehicle. I'm really interested in the Rivian truck.
I rode an Uber last year in CA that was either a Kia or Hyundai. Forgot which, but it was Korean. I was blown away by the interior quality. Maybe the nicest car I have ever been in. Far nicer than my model 3.

Right now I would not buy an EV that could not use the Tesla supercharger network though. That was Musk's smartest move. One day that will not be a differentiator, but it is now.
 
I rode an Uber last year in CA that was either a Kia or Hyundai. Forgot which, but it was Korean. I was blown away by the interior quality. Maybe the nicest car I have ever been in. Far nicer than my model 3.
Hm, I thought the Model3 interior was a little nicer than the Ioniq/EV6. Maybe it was a Genesis? Maybe it's because the grass is always greener...? :)

Hyundai/Kia:Genesis :: Chevy:Cadillac, Honda:Acura, Mini:BMW, etc

The eGMP cars are 800v and offer V2L. That's certainly a step up from the Teslas.
Right now I would not buy an EV that could not use the Tesla supercharger network though. That was Musk's smartest move. One day that will not be a differentiator, but it is now.
A lot of non-Tesla makers are already offering NACS adapters, some even for free.
 
EV batteries are less efficient in extreme cold. Twice in Dec/Jan I left my car at the airport and came back to temps slightly over freezing. Going up the one sustained hill on the highway, the battery can't keep up with the demand and power gets reduced, the cold is the cause. On a Leaf, there is a turtle icon on the dash, it turns off after about 10 minutes. Meanwhile, that was me driving 50 in the right lane with my flashers on.
You have to be really committed to EVs to drive a Leaf.

I never have reduced power in the Tesla, and I don't recall having reduced power in any of my previous EVs. The PHEVs would usually fire up the engine below a certain temperature no matter what, just so that it was warm and available when needed. Of course, PHEVs also have various other modes where the engine has to fire up even when it's not needed because, well, engine things. Gotta circulate the oil, burn old fuel, etc...

But for some reason, Nissan decided to go with an air-cooled battery on the Leaf which makes it particularly susceptible to temperature.
 
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The eGMP cars are 800v and offer V2L. That's certainly a step up from the Teslas.
The Cybertruck has an 800V HV battery (and 48V LV battery). It separates itself into two 400V batteries for 400V charging. The V4 Superchargers now support the higher voltage and it can charge at up to 325kWh on them.

A lot of non-Tesla makers are already offering NACS adapters, some even for free.
Most are coming online this year. Ford was first to have access. Needs more than the adapter, of course. The car's software and app must support it. I just saw that the first non-Tesla with a NACS port is out though I can't remember which one it is at the moment.

Also saw a high-voltage NACS extension cord prototype tested. A 5' version will be released soon and will allow non-Tesla's to use the correct Supercharger for the spot at which they are parked. Here's the video which includes the test and an interview with the head of the company that will make it.

 
I don't know a lot about the current Leaf. A Leaf was the first EV I drove back around 2009/10. Just a short drive in a co-worker's Leaf. The Leaf was a trailblazer back then, several years before the Model S. At least back then, the Leaf wasn't a practical car for other than local driving. Looks like the current models have a range of either 149 or 212 miles with 50kW charging. What are its strengths?

I’m not sure the Leaf has much in the way of strengths. It is a good car for running around town unless you live in a big town. It has a rare L2 charging port and a range around 140 miles. It is a hatchback so I can bring thing home better, but most regular cars with fold down seats can do the same.

When I bought it you couldn’t get a Tesla in fewer than 9 months and my Civic had died. Ok, it wasn’t dead, but it was a 13 year old car that needed a new engine. Knowing what I know now, I would have bought an old Beetle.
 
I think it's going to be quite rare that someone will be cross-shopping an eGMP compact SUV against a Cybertruck.
I was thinking the Silverado EV pickup. I would think that it might be considered alongside the Cybertruck. It has an 800V system and 325 kW charging and is currently at the top of the heap for towing performance and range.
 
My friends just got back from a trip where the rental car company gave them a Tesla. I think it was Avis. They’d never driven one. If they didn’t want to accept it, they would’ve had to wait 30 or 40 minutes. They finally figured out how to make it go. Their son had to show them how to turn it off when they got to his house.

Battery was 55% when they got it. 44% upon returning. So they didn’t charge, but they had no idea whether to try to charge it before returning it. As they exited the highway for the airport, it died. They managed to restart and it barely made it to the rental car return. They could not pull up when the folks asked them to pull forward. It was done. So no idea what happened or why.
 
I was thinking the Silverado EV pickup. I would think that it might be considered alongside the Cybertruck. It has an 800V system and 325 kW charging and is currently at the top of the heap for towing performance and range.
400V system, 350kW charging at 800V in the largest model, about 210-220kWh.
It reconfigures for 800V when needed to charge but it runs at 400V because the smaller pack sizes are 400V only so this keeps the rest of the system outside the pack the same.
 
Their son had to show them how to turn it off when they got to his house.
What did he show them?

I ask, because you don't turn them off. You put it into Park and get out. You don't even have to do that, though, as it will put itself into park when you open the driver's door.

The only part that wouldn't be obvious is how to lock it. The instructions are printed on the key-card they were given to operate the car. You touch it below the camera on the B-pillar.

Battery was 55% when they got it. 44% upon returning. So they didn’t charge, but they had no idea whether to try to charge it before returning it. As they exited the highway for the airport, it died. They managed to restart and it barely made it to the rental car return. They could not pull up when the folks asked them to pull forward. It was done. So no idea what happened or why.
That doesn't make any sense. What died? There is no engine to die. It will operate down to 0% charge, and a bit longer.

Overall, poor job of Avis putting them into a car they didn't know how to operate. Put someone in a stick-shift, who doesn't know how to drive one, and they'll have a really hard time, too.
 
What did he show them?

I ask, because you don't turn them off. You put it into Park and get out. You don't even have to do that, though, as it will put itself into park when you open the driver's door.

The only part that wouldn't be obvious is how to lock it. The instructions are printed on the key-card they were given to operate the car. You touch it below the camera on the B-pillar.


That doesn't make any sense. What died? There is no engine to die. It will operate down to 0% charge, and a bit longer.

Overall, poor job of Avis putting them into a car they didn't know how to operate. Put someone in a stick-shift, who doesn't know how to drive one, and they'll have a really hard time, too.

Don’t know what he showed them. I don’t know how to operate them. They left something on and didn’t know how to leave the car when they got to his house.

The car died. The battery died. Obviously it doesn’t have an engine to die.

Poor job of Avis indeed. And poor vehicle to say the battery has 44% life but then shuts off.
 
The car died. The battery died. Obviously it doesn’t have an engine to die.
You said it was at 44% when returning. How did the battery die at 44%? It doesn't shut off at 44%.

I don't think we're going to figure it out since our information is from someone who doesn't understand how the car works.
 
Returning electric rental cars "full"?

Full of what.??

Years ago one winter I got stuck in Fairbanks with no job and little money. So I worked at a rental car agency. You would be surprised at what the returned cars would be full of...
 
You said it was at 44% when returning. How did the battery die at 44%? It doesn't shut off at 44%.

I don't think we're going to figure it out since our information is from someone who doesn't understand how the car works.

The battery was at 44% and it died. I’ve had my phone at 44% and die too when it got cold. No idea what happened but it shouldn’t have died at 44%. I think that’s at the bottom line. Of course my friend didn’t know much about the car and doesn’t know much about Teslas.

I just got out of one tonight. I recounted that story, and of course we couldn’t figure out what the problem might’ve been. Obviously something was wrong with the software or the battery.

Obviously, my story wasn’t very helpful to this thread. Thought it would be an interesting anecdote. I’ll go back to lurking and visiting here infrequently
 
The battery was at 44% and it died.
Anything can break, but what's more likely here? Cold weather doesn't cause the car to suddenly die at 44% SoC. Maybe something else was going on that the driver, with no knowledge of Teslas, didn't understand.

I posted a video yesterday showing a Model 3 being cold soaked outside overnight in -31F temperatures then drive to work, sitting, and driving home.
 
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