[NA]Returning electric rental cars "full"?

[Ed Haywood]

The 120VAC 20A and 15A physical interface- i.e. the plug - is the same. There is no cheap/simple way to design the EVSE to detect the current carrying capacity of the circuit it's attached to.

Not accurate. 15A plugs have 2 vertical blades. 20A plugs have 1 vertical and 1 horizontal blade. 20A outlets are compatible with both, and look like this:



The Tesla mobile charging cable comes with plug adapters for a variety of 110 and 220 outlets. The cable detects the amp rating of the adapter and sets the charging rate accordingly. Plugging into a 20A outlet with a 20A adapter results in 33% faster charging than a 15A outlet.

 

[mandm]

What's that mean, in plain English?

That’s the label of the plug type. Think USB-A, USB-C, etc

 

[mandm]

I never really learned what preconditioned does, I know the internet says it makes the battery in an optimal state but I have went with and without precondition, I didn’t know a difference.

 

[asicer]

My car's battery holds the energy equivalent of 3.28 gallons of gasoline when fully charged and can travel upwards of 350 miles on it. There's no question which powertrain is more efficient. It isn't even close. Regen braking is one of the reasons why.

You are missing the point. Avoiding the use of the brakes will increase the range of a gas car. It will also increase the range of an EV. Do you disagree with those two statements? Also, do you understand what a smiley (emoticon) usually conveys?

I have no idea what that means. How does wasting energy as heat (friction brakes) increase efficiency?

It doesn't. However, 1-pedal braking on many EV's do not regenerate more than max regen mode. But even 1-pedal braking eventually engages the friction brake when coming to a full stop. With max regen mode, the driver is able to ensure the friction brake isn't engaged until the very last moment.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Two types, the High Power Wall Connector (HWPC) and the Universal Wall Connector (UWC). (The UWC includes a J1772 adapter for non-NACS cars)

The UWC can be daisy-chained with up to six on a single circuit.

Each HPWC needs it's own circuit, unless it's at the end of a chain of UWCs.

Still?!? When they announced the Gen 2 HPWC it was supposed to support power sharing after a software update. I know that at least a year after the fact it still wasn't supported, but wow.

Actually, looking at the web site now, the (Gen 3 now) HPWC *does* support Group Power Management, and you can mix-and-match up to 6 HPWCs or 6 UWCs or any combination thereof. What the UWC supports that the HPWC does not is PowerShare, which, while it sounds like what we're talking about, is Vehicle-to-Load which is currently only supported by the Cybertruck.

I'm not sure if that's correct. It may be for some brands but I don't think all of them. I checked Ford and there is no model year restriction. They gained access to Tesla's network in early 2024. I believe they were the first.

Yes, Ford was first in early 2024. I think everyone is due to be enabled by the end of this year.

However, EVs older than when their respective fleets are enabled will at least need a software update before they'll work with the Supercharger network, and I expect that not all the manufacturers will do so for their prior vehicles - They're not known for making things better after purchase, and there's not really anything in it for them so I don't expect it to be popular among the OEMs to do so.

According to at least one EV engineer, max regen coupled with conventional braking gives better range than one-pedal driving.

That... Doesn't even make sense. Do you have a reference?

Conventional braking takes your kinetic energy and converts it to waste heat, which is by definition inefficient.

But even so, the difference between one-pedal driving and conventional braking is not that big unless you have regen turned all the way down.

Also backwards. If you have regen turned all the way down, there isn't as much difference as if it's turned all the way up. But in either case, regen gives you back about 2/3 of the energy you started with if you consider the whole cycle (kinetic->generator->battery->motor->kinetic). Conventional braking gives you back nothing.

I've never been asked for my address and DoB when I needed to refuel a gas car.

And you shouldn't be for an EV. And if they required it, I'd fake it.

Making your life easier by remotely activating and monitoring the charger is a good reason to maybe use it, but it shouldn't be mandatory.

Absolutely. That's just silly... And a big reason why the move to NACS is huge for EV adoption. The other networks will have to compete with Tesla now, and that means they'll need to get their act together in many ways. The experience of enabling them is a big one, and reliability is another big one.

And no easy way to find them.

plugshare.com or the PlugShare app is the best way to go. They have all the various networks as well as scattered one-off chargers, random outlets you can plug into, etc.

Most important, no real reason why all of them couldn't take a credit card. Every single one I stopped at had a contactless reader.

Yeah, that's the dumb thing. Why do I need a ChargePoint app and card to use for enabling their chargers instead of just a credit card? It really is dumb, and like I said, I hope the fact that they're going to have to compete with Tesla now moves the needle here. The experience of enabling most non-Tesla chargers sucks.

I guess this quote isn't that helpful- there was some comment that appeared to be asking why all L1 charging is de-rated to 12A. The 120VAC 20A and 15A physical interface- i.e. the plug - is the same. There is no cheap/simple way to design the EVSE to detect the current carrying capacity of the circuit it's attached to. The pilot signal between the EVSE and the car let's them negotiate down the the lowest of either the demand side (the car) or the supply side (the EVSE).

There are a few that let you switch them to 16A (20A circuit) or even 24A if you have a TT30 plug (the 30-amp 120V plug that's used by many RVs and common at campgrounds). Most are stuck at 12A though.

I never really learned what preconditioned does, I know the internet says it makes the battery in an optimal state but I have went with and without precondition, I didn’t know a difference.

There's two different things you could be talking about here. Preconditioning is also the word that's generally used for cabin temperature, so much of the time that's what they're actually talking about - Warming/cooling the cabin while still plugged in so that it doesn't eat up your battery.

If it's specifically preconditioning the battery, this is to get it to a higher temperature so that you can get more out of it and, for that matter, put more back into it! We're in the negative (ºF) temps here right now and when I left earlier tonight I got zero regen because the battery got too cold. So, if I had preconditioned the battery I would have been able to do more regen, plus the higher temp of the battery would have meant longer range.

In the grand scheme of things, unless you need more range when it's extremely cold, the battery portion of the preconditioning isn't worthwhile - You'll use more energy to precondition than you'll add to the "tank" for once you're out and about in most cases. At milder temperatures, you likely won't notice a difference.

The cabin preconditioning, though, is one of the best features of EVs. Tesla especially is great at this - My cabin goes from 20ºF to 70ºF in two minutes, so I don't even have to think ahead to be able to get in a nice warm toasty car when it's freezing out.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It doesn't. However, 1-pedal braking on many EV's do not regenerate more than max regen mode. But even 1-pedal braking eventually engages the friction brake when coming to a full stop. With max regen mode, the driver is able to ensure the friction brake isn't engaged until the very last moment.

This sort of nuance is very type-specific. For example, my Bolt could be in D or L on the "transmission" and it also had a paddle behind the steering wheel for extra regen. The maximum you could get was being in L and pulling the paddle. There was no control over the behavior of the brakes.

My Tesla allows me to turn the friction braking on and off in the settings. I generally keep it off; for a newbie it would be better to have it on lest they get surprised at the lack of braking the first time they go out on a cold day. Also, there is no "max regen mode" on the Tesla, it's always on max. The only difference is whether you set it to "Creep" like a traditional automatic, Hold (where it automatically applies the brakes after you are at a stop, not before), or just stop without the brakes. I have mine in Hold, that keeps it from rolling if I stop on a hill and also prevents it from using the motor to stay still if it were in a situation where it'd roll back.

But you could know none of that and drive either car just fine. This is geek-level stuff here.

 

[asicer]

Do you have a reference?

It was explained to me that the EPA requires vehicles to start in their most efficient setting if thats the mode it was tested in for fuel economy, and with Hyundai/Kia that's with 1-pedal turned off. I had thought it had to do with the algorithm governing the friction brake, but turns out 1-pedal being less efficient actually has to do with the decoupling of the front and rear motors. My bad.

For maximum range is using i-pedal most (all) of the...

www.kiaevforums.com

This is geek-level stuff here.

For sure, which is sort of what I was getting at with what I thought was a gently humorous jab at one of your snippets but blew up into rathole. The tone that I got in this thread was that both the fanatics and the luddites say that EV's are hard, but there are those of us in between those 2 extremes that figure it out just fine.

 

[Bill]

1.) I have a detached garage that only has 110v 15a service
2.) To add high voltage service I would have to dig up and retrench under a very nice two tiered concrete patio
3.) #2 ain’t happening!
4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

Just wondering.

 

[Bob Noel]

...
4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

Just wondering.

I can't answer your question (but since when does that stop people on the interweb?), but...

Occassionally just take your motorcycle or have a day of rest or .... your excuse is that you need to charge the EV.

 

[Larry in TN]

And no easy way to find them. Most important, no real reason why all of them couldn't take a credit card. Every single one I stopped at had a contactless reader.

Have you checked PlugShare? That might list the forms of payment. No technical reason why they can't have a CC reader, just the additional cost of the hardware. Many networks offer a per kWh discount for those who sign up for an account.

There is no cheap/simple way to design the EVSE to detect the current carrying capacity of the circuit it's attached to.

Tesla's system works very well. The UMC uses a variet of adapters (dongles) for each plug type. The 5-15 adapter is for a conventional 120V/15A. The 5-20 for 120V20A has the one horizontal pin. They don't make a TT-30 but it is available from third parties. Each adapter tells the UMC what its max current is and the UMC tells the car through the datalink. They also have thermal sensors in the adapters so that they can reduce the charging current, or stop charging completely, if things get too hot.

The UMC comes with the 5-15 and 14-50 (240V/50A) adapters. Additional adapters are $35 for 120V and $45 for 240V. I added the 5-20 to my collection since they are now required in garages. Never used it other than to test it.

I heard you are only charged an idle fee if it’s mostly full, there is a published percentage where this starts but I cannot remember. Most of the time they are empty from my experience.

For Tesla, it's when the station hits 50% occupancy and you get notifications as your car nears its limit and when it reaches its limit. There's also a five minute grace period.

I never really learned what preconditioned does

It uses the thermal management system to bring the battery to the optimum temperature for fast charging. I've heard that's around 50°C. If the battery is too cold when it's plugged in, the car will spend some amount of time using charging current to warm the battery before charging begins. Most cars will automatically precondition when navigating to a fast charger.

both the fanatics and the luddites say that EV's are hard

EVs are not hard. They are different. Living with an EV is actually much easier than living with a gasoline vehicle.


***** Is anyone else having trouble with multi-quote? I'm having issues where only parts of the quoted messages are included in the quotes and quotes being attributed to the wrong poster.

 

[asicer]

1.) I have a detached garage that only has 110v 15a service
2.) To add high voltage service I would have to dig up and retrench under a very nice two tiered concrete patio
3.) #2 ain’t happening!
4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

Just wondering.

Most EV's get roughly 4 miles per kWh. Your 110v is roughly 1.3kW, but let's round that down to 1.0 to be conservative. 16hr * 1kW * 4m/kWh = 64 miles.

 

[Salty]

Living with an EV is actually much easier than living with a gasoline vehicle.

I don’t understand stupid statements like this. It’s not that simple and absolutely not true in many situations.

 

[NoBShere]

1.) I have a detached garage that only has 110v 15a service
2.) To add high voltage service I would have to dig up and retrench under a very nice two tiered concrete patio
3.) #2 ain’t happening!
4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

Just wondering.

If you want to charge indoors on level 2, yes you would need to do #2 based upon the information you provided. I have the same situation as you. I wired a 50amp outlet right next to my basement door and use a plug in charger to charge in my driveway. The plug in charger is very basic with no controls of its own since the car has controls (percent charge and charge timer if i want to charge when electricity rates are lower). Additionally, the plug in charger allows me to only have one for house and cabin. While the plug in charger i use is basic, it wasn't a cheap amazon version as there is a lot of energy flowing. If someone goes this route, i do recommend an industrial grade outlet (i.e. hubbell, bryant, etc) as there is significantly more energy flowing through this than any other circuit in your home. Of course, if you hire an electrician, you don't need to worry about the electrical nuances.

 

[RussR]

Man after reading all of this I am even happier with my hybrid. Been driving them for years. Efficient, but can still be taken on long trips without any concerns about fueling. No learning curve on how to refuel or which plugs to use or accounts to create. All the benefits of regen braking. The best compromise in my opinion!

 

[Bob Noel]

Man after reading all of this I am even happier with my hybrid. Been driving them for years. Efficient, but can still be taken on long trips without any concerns about fueling. No learning curve on how to refuel or which plugs to use or accounts to create. All the benefits of regen braking. The best compromise in my opinion!

yup - same here. My gas-electric hybrid meets my needs.

I'm considering a plug-in hybrid, but not an EV. The EV, even the wonderful perfection that is Tesla, just .won't. .meet. .my. .needs.

 

[Larry in TN]

1.) I have a detached garage that only has 110v 15a service
2.) To add high voltage service I would have to dig up and retrench under a very nice two tiered concrete patio

They ran only a single circuit out to the garage? That's odd.

It may not be necessary to dig up your driveway. They have machines that can push a conduit under pavement. Google Fiber was using it in our neighborhood when they installed new service. They'd run a cable from the curb, under a driveway, to the side of the house in less than an hour. Check YouTube for videos on underground power runs.

If you ever decided to do it, you could setup a small subpanel in the garage to give you other services out there as well as charging.

4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

For a Model 3, figure 3 mph for charging. You'll get slightly higher. 16 hours would be 48 miles so you're losing about 20 miles per day on your longest day. If the car has extended charging over the weekend, or some shorter days during the week, then you'd probably be fine. If you're getting behind on an unusually busy week, ten minutes at a Supercharger will fill the gap.

If the wiring would support a 20A circuit, that would push you up to at least 80 miles per day of charging.

 

[NoBShere]

I don’t understand stupid statements like this. It’s not that simple and absolutely not true in many situations.

I could say the same as your statement. I have never read the owners manual of an ev, most ev owners haven't. While I don't disagree with what people are saying here, it definitely dives into details that aren't completely necessary. I have never considered pre-conditioning for charging as an example. Charging comes down to if you are tesla, you can charge anywhere. If you aren't tesla, then don't charge at a tesla charger. That may change or is changing but, keep it simple. As for public charging, many places require the app. In the years I have owned an EV, i think i have charged publicly four times and i figured it out on the fly. For long road trip vacations, i still go with the ICE if i'm going to be remote, cities EV is easy. If that is too difficult for you, i don't know how you could ever be counted on to work through an urgent airport diversion scenario.

 

[Larry in TN]

I don’t understand stupid statements like this. It’s not that simple and absolutely not true in many situations.

You may have a different opinion but that is my experience living with an EV for other three years. No need to get personal.

1. The only maintenance I've done in 3+ years is having my cabin air filters changed. I scheduled it in the app, the service tech come to my house and did it in the garage including cleaning the coils. The cost was $63 including parts.

2. In 3+ years I've been to the "gas station" twice. I never have to think about it. That's a lot of gas stops I haven't had to do.

3. When the temperature is hot, or cold, I run the HVAC while I'm in the stores without having to worry about a running engine. When I get into the car, it's at a comfortable temperature. If the car's left out in the ice or snow, the Defrost Car mode, from the app, will have it defrosted, warm, and the battery up to operating temperature before I get to the car.

Living in TN I've only used the Defrost mode once. My car had been outside in single-digit temperatures for four days. I started Defrost when I landed. When I got to the car the frost was gone and the cabin was 82°.

4. When on a trip, I type in the destination and the car figures out when and where I should charge.

5. I don't carry keys. I have my phone, and a credit card-sized NFC card in my wallet as a backup. I walk away from the car and it locks. I walk up to it an it opens. I step on the brake pedal, shift into gear, and drive.

I drove ICE cars for forty years so I know what that experience is like.

 

[AV8R_87]

Have you checked PlugShare? That might list the forms of payment.

I'll check it out next time.

No technical reason why they can't have a CC reader, just the additional cost of the hardware.

That's why it was extra frustrating. All of them had contactless readers. The Circle K charger had a full strip/chip/contactles reader, proudly displaying on the screen that it was disabled.

Oh, and another rental car-related nuisance, besides not having an adapter, it didn't have an L1 charging cable either.
These should be standard items to be included with the rental, same as jacks and spare tires. If theft is a concern, add it to the vechicle check-in inspection.

 

[chartbundle]

And you shouldn't be for an EV. And if they required it, I'd fake it.

It's amazing how many EV Charging companies think I live on a random empty lot in Montana or Wyoming. Luckily I have a company that also does vendor locked credit cards where the Zip code doesn't matter(privacy dot com).

small subpanel

If your location follows the NEC you must go to a subpanel to have a second circuit to a detached outbuilding, because you can't have multiple power feeds, so the upgraded circuit becomes the feed to the subpanel(NEC 225.30). Along with local grounding rods.

 

[StraightnLevel]

I don’t understand ...

Confirmation bias.

It's rampant in this thread, and from multiple perspectives.

 

[tspear]

4) You'll go much farther if you learn to not use the brakes so you take advantage of regenerative braking as much as possible. That means that you may want to learn to get off the accelerator just a bit earlier than you're used to.

This is a Tesla thing. Hyundai, Kia, GM, Ford, BMW... All the others I have rented/demoed you hit the brake it does regenerate. Only tesla is the brake only mechanical brakes and not linked to regen.

Tim

 

[tspear]

Anyone can refuel any ICE vehicle they rent with zero hassle. Not true of an EV.

Opposite for some younger generations. My daughter fifteen years ago put gas in my diesel truck.
MI have two nephews that have almost no experience with gas or diesel. Their parents have had EVs since the kids were 3 and 5. How well do you think they will handle an ICE?

Tim

 

[tspear]

I guess this quote isn't that helpful- there was some comment that appeared to be asking why all L1 charging is de-rated to 12A. The 120VAC 20A and 15A physical interface- i.e. the plug - is the same. There is no cheap/simple way to design the EVSE to detect the current carrying capacity of the circuit it's attached to. The pilot signal between the EVSE and the car let's them negotiate down the the lowest of either the demand side (the car) or the supply side (the EVSE).

Incorrect. The 20A circuit, if done correctly has an alternate style plug (one prong is shaped like a T instead of an I). GM could have provided two connectors which provide information back to the vehicle on which style connector is in use.

Tim

 

[Larry in TN]

That's why it was extra frustrating. All of them had contactless readers. The Circle K charger had a full strip/chip/contactles reader, proudly displaying on the screen that it was disabled.

Could be that they are not yet activated. Wouldn't make sense to pay for the hardware if you don't plan on utilizing it.

Oh, and another rental car-related nuisance, besides not having an adapter, it didn't have an L1 charging cable either.

Yeah, rental companies don't understand EV yet, either. Their policies have improved, but there's a long way to go. They could make things much more convenient for their EV renters.

This is a Tesla thing. Hyundai, Kia, GM, Ford, BMW... All the others I have rented/demoed you hit the brake it does regenerate. Only tesla is the brake only mechanical brakes and not linked to regen.

If I understand the function correctly, that is what the user selectable option controls. By allow the use of brakes without brake pedal pressure it gives a consistent performance even when the battery is too full, or too cold, to support full regen braking. You can turn that off if you want friction brakes only when you press the pedal.

 

[tspear]

If I understand the function correctly, that is what the user selectable option controls. By allow the use of brakes without brake pedal pressure it gives a consistent performance even when the battery is too full, or too cold, to support full regen braking. You can turn that off if you want friction brakes only when you press the pedal.

I do NOT have a Tesla.
So I am going with how both of my brothers and a few other Tesla owners explained it to me. Single pedal, uses regen. Single pedal has two modes, when the battery is full or cannot accept a charge, in one mode no regen happens and you coast. This has "surprised" a number of drivers. The second mode will use friction brakes to match regen performance.
The physical brake pedal, is only connected to the friction brakes, and does not do any regen.

This is different then all the other EVs I have driven. They actually use regen when you use the physical brake pedal.

Tim

 

[Larry in TN]

The physical brake pedal, is only connected to the friction brakes, and does not do any regen.

If your foot has moved from the accelerator to the brake pedal then you are already at max available regenerative braking. Pressing the brake will increase deceleration by adding friction braking to regen braking.

The design you describe, which I've never driven myself, sounds like it would make the car feel more like an ICE car as it would coast, or be closer to coasting, when no pedal is being pressed.

 

[Ed Haywood]

There is no right answer. Totally depends on your situation and usage. If you have a garage or driveway with 220 service and drive mostly local, an EV is better than ICE. If your living situation does not support overnight 220v charging or you frequently take long trips, an ICE is better. If you are like most families and have multiple cars, owning one of each provides the best of both worlds.

 

[Larry in TN]

There is no right answer.

As I've said many times, if you don't want an EV then don't get an EV. Trump said earlier today that he will cancel all EV mandates. I agree with that completely.

The problem is that people with little or no experience with EVs posting and publishing misconceptions about EVs. People who might be interested in EVs believe that misinformation and incorrectly believe that they aren't practical for them.

I don't start any of these threads and I only reply for one of two reasons: if someone asks a question about EVs that I can answer, or if inaccurate information is posted.

In anyone is coming through Nashville and wants to learn more, look me up. I'm not far from the international airport.

 

[Salty]

I don't start any of these threads and I only reply for one of two reasons: if someone asks a question about EVs that I can answer, or if inaccurate information is posted.

Inaccurate information like claiming "Living with an EV is actually much easier than living with a gasoline vehicle.", which is absolutely not true for everyone?

 

[NoBShere]

Inaccurate information like claiming "Living with an EV is actually much easier than living with a gasoline vehicle.", which is absolutely not true for everyone?

did someone actually say in this thread that EVs are great for everyone? There are situations where it is and situations where it isn't that have been covered, repeatedly.

 

[Salty]

did someone actually say in this thread that EVs are great for everyone? There are situations where it is and situations where it isn't that have been covered, repeatedly.

Living with an EV is actually much easier than living with a gasoline vehicle.

 

[NoBShere]

so you added the "everyone", got it.

 

[NoBShere]

Opposite for some younger generations. My daughter fifteen years ago put gas in my diesel truck.
MI have two nephews that have almost no experience with gas or diesel. Their parents have had EVs since the kids were 3 and 5. How well do you think they will handle an ICE?

Tim

I have seen someone drive away from a gas station without removing the nozzle. I haven't see that happen with an EV, i don't believe its possible with an EV.

 

[Salty]

so you added the "everyone", got it.

There is no exclusion in his statement. It includes everyone.

 

[NoBShere]

There is no exclusion in his statement. It includes everyone.

lol

 

[Salty]

lol

So if I said "Living with an ICE is actually much easier than living with an EV", that wouldn't be an issue?

Sorry, yes it would be an issue. Neither statement is true because there is no limiting clause to either and neither case is true for everyone.

 

[nauga]

Sorry, yes it would be an issue. Neither statement is true because there is no limiting clause to either and neither case is true for everyone.

Since there's no limiting clause it also applies to raccoons, fruit bats, whales, and some species of flatworms.

Nauga,
for whom life is easier since he decided it's all just a veil of illusion

 

[NoBShere]

So if I said "Living with an ICE is actually much easier than living with an EV", that wouldn't be an issue?

Sorry, yes it would be an issue. Neither statement is true because there is no limiting clause to either and neither case is true for everyone.

do you do stand-up? its a conversation, no one believes any of these statements are absolute.

btw, here is an article from 14 years ago about refilling an ICE that indicates its not so easy for some.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

1.) I have a detached garage that only has 110v 15a service
2.) To add high voltage service I would have to dig up and retrench under a very nice two tiered concrete patio
3.) #2 ain’t happening!
4.) My daily driving requirements range from 16 to 68mi per day depending.
5.) Would ~16hr/day on a 110 charge be sufficient to keep me going in something like a Tesla 3, or would I eventually run a deficit?

My Tesla 3 does a little better than 4 miles per kWh. If all you have is a standard 120V 15A wall outlet, you'll be charging at a max of 12 amps continuous, or around 1.44kW, and charging efficiency may be as low as 75% so 1.08kW. So, you should be getting a hair over 4 miles of range per hour that you're plugged in, or 64 miles if you're plugged in for 16 hours. On a cold day where you're using more power, maybe you'll only get 3 miles per hour of charging. So, if it's cold maybe you're starting with 20 miles less each day that you do a 68-mile day, but unless you're really driving aggressively or it gets extremely cold, you'd be able to very safely do at least 6 days in a row of 68 miles. If that isn't working out, a stop at a Supercharger can get you going again, or there are other solutions.

If it was really problematic, you could put a 240V outlet on the outside of the house and charge in your driveway on the occasions that you need a faster charge - Or maybe even plug into a 220V plug inside the house (dryer, electric range, etc) and chuck the cord out the window. But a quick stop at a local Supercharger is likely more convenient unless you live far away.

I don’t understand stupid statements like this. It’s not that simple and absolutely not true in many situations.

It's not a "stupid" statement. It should be true for the majority of people. Sure, there are situations where it's not, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the most convenient for most people. Very few statements are absolute, but that doesn't make them "stupid".

Man after reading all of this I am even happier with my hybrid. Been driving them for years. Efficient, but can still be taken on long trips without any concerns about fueling. No learning curve on how to refuel or which plugs to use or accounts to create. All the benefits of regen braking. The best compromise in my opinion!

Welllllll... There are issues with hybrids too. You've essentially got two entire powertrains plus the mechanical bits to mix them together, and neither the gas engine nor the electric motor is going to be particularly powerful. So, you end up with a heavy car that doesn't perform particularly well, you haven't shed any of the maintenance issues with ICE, and unless it's a plug-in hybrid you still have to go to the gas station, usually just as often because your gas tank will be small.

Hybrids are operationally flexible, and plug-in hybrids with a sufficient battery size can give you an almost-EV experience (except performance and maintenance), but there is no perfect solution.

For long road trip vacations, i still go with the ICE if i'm going to be remote, cities EV is easy.

I prefer the Tesla over the ICE for long road trips too. Autopilot on the highway makes it easy. As far as "remote" I went to Decorah, IA in the summer of 2023 and it wasn't bad. I hit the Superchargers in Mauston and La Crosse along I-90 on the way there, plugged into a wall outlet at the hotel as well as using a couple of L2 chargers in town when I was out and about. On the return home, I decided to take the slightly-shorter scenic route and head all the way to the Madison area (Fitchburg)... But then I discovered that there was a new Supercharger about to open in Prairie du Chien anyway, so I figured I'd stop and see if it worked yet, and it did. Made it all the way home from there.

Decorah is definitely off the beaten path, but the trip worked out well and was quite enjoyable in the Tesla. The Teslas aren't as common in that area yet, so it took me back a few years to when Tesla drivers used to wave to each other. Now it's the "California Camry" there are so many of them.

4) You'll go much farther if you learn to not use the brakes so you take advantage of regenerative braking as much as possible. That means that you may want to learn to get off the accelerator just a bit earlier than you're used to.

This is a Tesla thing. Hyundai, Kia, GM, Ford, BMW... All the others I have rented/demoed you hit the brake it does regenerate. Only tesla is the brake only mechanical brakes and not linked to regen.

Irrelevant - What I mean is that no matter what EV you have, generally the regenerative braking is not as strong as the majority of people hit the brake in an ICEV.

But, since you brought it up... I've had 5 electrified vehicles (2 plug-in hybrids, 3 fully electric) and they all work a bit differently when it comes to regen. Tesla gives you full control - You know whether you're using regenerative or friction braking because if you lift your foot completely off the accelerator, you're getting max regen and if you apply the brake pedal you're using mechanical braking.

Most of the rest, in their normal modes, will attempt to mimic an ICEV with an automatic by limiting the amount of regen you get when lifting your foot off the accelerator, and then the brake pedal is mixed - At the top portion of its travel you'll be lowering the limit on regen, and at the bottom you'll be adding the friction brakes. But, you don't know where that transition is and you don't have control over it, which is why most EV drivers who know this will switch their car into the 1 pedal mode. This was done by shifting to L in the hybrids, B in the Bolt, and I honestly can't remember on the BMW.

In any case, getting off the accelerator earlier will give you more regenerative braking and less friction braking, and it is more efficient to do so.

Incorrect. The 20A circuit, if done correctly has an alternate style plug (one prong is shaped like a T instead of an I). GM could have provided two connectors which provide information back to the vehicle on which style connector is in use.

GM, like most of the traditional OEMs, doesn't go to great lengths when it comes to EV related things, even though GM is one of the best of them. Their charger does not have a replaceable plug, it's just a normal NEMA 5-15. So, the software in the car allows you to choose from either 8A or 12A when charging at 120V. They didn't even allow for switching to a 20A or 30A 120V plug.

Ironically, their charger *is* capable of 240V because they use the same guts in international markets and just put a different plug on it, so if you cut off the 5-15 plug and put on a 240V plug, it'll charge just fine on 240V at higher amperages.

So I am going with how both of my brothers and a few other Tesla owners explained it to me. Single pedal, uses regen. Single pedal has two modes, when the battery is full or cannot accept a charge, in one mode no regen happens and you coast. This has "surprised" a number of drivers. The second mode will use friction brakes to match regen performance.
The physical brake pedal, is only connected to the friction brakes, and does not do any regen.

Tesla is *always* in "single pedal" mode, with max regen when you lift off the accelerator. There is an option to mix in friction braking to make it behave the same all the time, which nobody else does. (This is as you describe.) And yes, the brake pedal is always just friction brakes.

This is different then all the other EVs I have driven. They actually use regen when you use the physical brake pedal.

...because, as described above, they're artificially limiting regen performance to mimic the driving style of an ICEV unless you switch modes. In a Tesla, you're always going to be getting maximum regenerative braking if you're using the brake pedal.

There is no right answer. Totally depends on your situation and usage. If you have a garage or driveway with 220 service and drive mostly local, an EV is better than ICE. If your living situation does not support overnight 220v charging or you frequently take long trips, an ICE is better. If you are like most families and have multiple cars, owning one of each provides the best of both worlds.

As noted previously in this thread, most people do NOT need 240V charging to use an EV.

If you do have a two-car household and you have use cases that simply don't work for two EVs, the real "best of both worlds" is one EV and one plug-in hybrid. If the plug-in has enough electric range to handle your daily commute, the vast majority of your driving will still be electric.