NA - What are the food rules? / Cross Contamination
- Thread starter SixPapaCharlie
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That's interesting. The local recycler here says not to do that.
AV8R_87
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That's how dozens of people got bad cases (multiple fatalities) of botulism. A can of bad olives got them, because that toxin doesn't have a bad taste.As someone once said....."if it tastes good....eat it".
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Snorting his way across the USA
Your wastewater plant operators will hate you if you dump grease and oils in the sink. They form waxy, floating balls in the aeration tanks which clog pipes and gum up the equipment.
SixPapaCharlie
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Sixer
I
I was kidding about that. I know better.
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Snorting his way across the USA
I know you were kidding about that and that you know better, I was just trying to create some fodder for the next "As the Prop Turns" episode.
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Bro do you even lift
that's why you get one of those dual sink sinks. water goes down the left drain, oil/grease down the right drain. pretty sure I read that in the SOH.
Daleandee
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Dale Andee
Some companies sell nonpathogenic bacteria that is injected into drain lines and eats the grease. Turns out some of the water treatment plants don't like that stuff in the water either ...
Four hours? Even at average room temperatures, I don't trust it for more than a couple of hours. Less, in warmer conditions.
PaulS
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If you cooked everything in that bacon fat instead of pouring it down the drain, all rules about cross contamination are unnecessary.
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Chrisgoesflying
Talking about putting things down the drain: In Canada most homes don’t have sinkanators. Here in the US, almost all homes, including ours have one of those magical holes that destroy anything you throw into. I’m having so much fun with it! Leftovers, down the drain. Fruit peel, down the drain. Egg shells, down the drain. All while doing my best villain laugh. Muahahaha!
Matthew
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Something else to consider: double sinks. The kind where you put dishes into a basket on one side for drying, then you cut up and drain raw chicken on the other side and likely splash juice into the clean side.
Common sense works well in most situations.
Common sense works well in most situations.
I bought my guys pizza before Christmas. My hands were dirty. Not filthy or greasy. I got scolded by the secretary for not washing them.
I'm still here. Nothing bad happened. It's almost like it's not that big of a deal.
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Richard Digits
A little dirt/oil/grease is good for you. Lubricates the old insides. I'm sure I've consumed at least one 14oz tube worth of grease over the years. It's the bugs you have to worry about.
They're hard on septic systems. We had one in town 20 years ago, but not in our three rural homes since. Our food disposals live outside, have 4 legs, tails, and fur.
Ventucky Red
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Get a call one day from the wife while I was away on a business trip telling me the drain is backed, so I tell the only thing she could do was call a plumber... $350.00 later the drain working again and the plumber told her it was from the garbage disposal.. he even gave her a guide on what to put in the disposal, and down the drain... leafy vegies, grease and fat from cooking are a huge no-no... also said the disposal was over 20 years old and we should consider putting in a new one. Which sounded good as not only did the house vibrate with the lights in the kitchen going dim, the thing sounded like a tree chipper when we ran it.
When I get back, I pull out the disposal and re-plumb the drain under the kitchen sink. We have not had a blockage problem since.. and the racoons, crows, and possums love us.... garbage disposals are banned in many of the EU countries..
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Ventucky Red
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Jon
When grilling I wouldn't worry too much, unless you want the taste of chicken or steak getting in the fish..
For preparation, I will always clean my utensils with hot water and wipe it clean... As for the surface, I do the same, hot water and soap, and a good rinse.
Zeldman
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With the price of food, the 5 second rule has turned into the 15 minute rule...
Rene
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Rene
“Common sense is the most uncommon thing.” -Mark Twain
New hire was trying to torch out a stainless bolt. I knew it was stainless, but I'll let ya struggle. Came up to me with another bolt he was able to remove. "Is this stainless?!" I look at it closely. Sniff it. Look at it. Hmm. Then I lick it. Yep. That's stainless. And walk away. 4 hours later he comes up to me. "WAS THAT A REAL THING?!?"
Time has no bounds when it comes to food. It's all about what the food item is and how hungry I am. Piece of lettuce from my sandwich falls on the ground.... **** you lettuce. Now a cheeto falls on the ground....until I notice rule applies. As long as I can beat the dog to it.
In regards to dogs… I live out in the country basically in the woods. My dogs…. find things. Gross things… things that would require a forensic analysis to identify. Then they hide them god knows where until they get good and ripe and I find them happily chewing away on it in the yard. They roll in the things and I can’t even be near them without gagging from the smell.
After seeing and smelling that I just can’t fathom how tossing them a scrap of fresh clean refrigerator kept meat while I’m cooking could possibly harm them.
After seeing and smelling that I just can’t fathom how tossing them a scrap of fresh clean refrigerator kept meat while I’m cooking could possibly harm them.
Let'sgoflying!
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Statistically, you are pretty safe. But that doesn't mean they won't get sick at sometime in the future or that some other pet getting raw food won't get sick (I assure you, they do - I'll let those interested google that).
We need the bigger picture, large numbers of events to see the true story.
It's like flying, as I said. A pilot can get away with a risky activity (buzzing, not preflighting, scud running) many, many, many times without incident.
But that pilot, or maybe some other pilot participating in these higher risk activities will, at some point, experience a bad outcome.
Mine stalked and hunted a chipmunk....then she opened the door while I was outside and brought it in the house. Initially thought it was a toy until I heard her on the couch crunching on it.
Matthew
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It was only a couple years ago when we had a huge baby formula shortage in the US. A big recall was in place because two babies had died after drinking potentially contaminated formula. Bacteria was found in the production facility, but I don’t think any was actually found inside the formula that was produced at that plant (I haven’t been able to find a good answer on that.) The strain of bacteria matched the bacteria that had killed the two babies. CDC ran genetic tests and found the bacteria in the factory didn’t match what killed the babies, and the two samples from the babies didn’t match each other. In one house they found matching bacteria in a contaminated breast pump where that infant had been getting breast milk and formula, and in the other house they found a match in bacteria on a water bottle that had been used for mixing with the powder.
There’s a lot stuff out there, but most of the time it won’t kill us or make us sick. Simple precautions are just a good idea.
There’s a lot stuff out there, but most of the time it won’t kill us or make us sick. Simple precautions are just a good idea.
Checkout_my_Six
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plus....an immune system is good for you.
Let'sgoflying!
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All the people who died of food poisoning last year wish they did not have to rely on only their immune system.plus....an immune system is good for you.
Checkout_my_Six
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yup....all the people who died wished they hadn't.
Van Johnston
Pattern Altitude
I thought mine found a new squeaky toy. Then finally figured out it was a baby rabbit. It got away from the dog long enough to find refuge under a piano pedal and dig it's claws in to the carpet.
Maybe something got lost in translation there. Makes no sense for formula to go through a breast pump.
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Matthew
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My understanding was that the infant had been getting milk and formula. The bacteria was from the contaminated pump and the formula was just a coincidence.
The formula was the same brand involved with the other fatality.
Cronobacter sakazakii Infections in Two Infants Linked ..
This report describes detection of Cronobacter sakazakii in two ..
www.cdc.gov
Pinecone
En-Route
Botulism comes from SEALED cans with contamination. It is a strict anaerobe, meaning it dies in the presence of oxygen.
Canned things that were not heated enough or does not contain enough acid can grow botulism. This why you cannot home can straight corn, you need to mix in tomatoes for the acid.
Pinecone
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They make a version for septic systems. They have a bottle of an enzyme that is injected each time you use it.
But with a small family, it might be better for your system, as you may not put enough material into the system to keep it working. Overseas, large buildings or compounds have issues with long weekends due to the lack of food for the waste processing system.
The problem is it is very hard to kill the bacteria and its spores. You put it in the right anerobic environment and the bacteria grows and produces the toxin. The bacteria (and to a lesser extent the spores) are not the problem. The toxicity comes form the botulinum toxin that the bacteria produces. This toxin is destroyed by a moderate amount of cooking, but if you're eating something that doesn't get cooked (notable issues in the past were canned mushrooms and vichyssoise soup), if it wasn't canned well, it is going to be toxic.
The spores can be problematic in some situations (notably infants) where they will actually grow into the bacteria in the intestines and produce the toxin inside the body.
Matthew
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This is why ground meat needs that extra internal temp. A steak gets seared on the surface and kills bacteria and destroys the toxins. Ground meat has all that potential surface contamination mixed throughout. The bacteria can be cooked dead before the toxins are destroyed
Botulism isn't typically a problem with meat. There are other pathogens including salmonella, lysteria, and various strains of E. Coli that can be an issue in meat. Yes, you are correct about ground meat. A regular cooked meat that accumulates bacteria on the surface has that destroyed by heating. Ground meat shouldn't be served "rare" because it needs to be cooked through to kill the bacteria distributed through the meat by the grinding. Or you can be very careful when cutting the meat before grinding/chopping.
AV8R_87
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The pump has a storage container that can be used for both.
Pinecone
En-Route
Yeap. But an open can is not where it grows. It cannot tolerate any exposure to oxygen.
Right, you need to have three things:
1. The spores (Killed except for high heats).
2. The bacteria growing from those spores (needs anerobic conditions).
3. The toxin from that bacteria (eradicated by moderate cooking).
Much as with aviation crashes, it takes a chain reaction: improperly canned food, food being canned, and the toxic results of that not being cooked.
rwellner98
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rw2
Even though I like to cook, I don't can. That said, I thought you could pressure can corn at home. It's just that you can't do boiling water canning.
Pinecone
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I did not pay that much attention.
But in the south, you find a lot of canned corn and tomatoes combined.
MauleSkinner
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I’ve never tried it for 2-4 hours…but I know that leaving food in the (unplugged) crockpot for 5 days when you get called for a pop-up trip makes it largely inedible.