when you don't have your maint. logs with you?

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Brad W

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Just thought of a random question. Prob a silly one to most of you, but I've never owned an aircraft so I've never had to deal with this stuff...

So I assume that most don't typically keep the maintenance logs onboard.
Say upir on a trip and have an issue. You find a local mechanic to fix you up....
but it's got to be logged to be airworthy, right?
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
 
Brad W said:
Just thought of a random question. Prob a silly one to most of you, but I've never owned an aircraft so I've never had to deal with this stuff...

So I assume that most don't typically keep the maintenance logs onboard.
Say upir on a trip and have an issue. You find a local mechanic to fix you up....
but it's got to be logged to be airworthy, right?
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
That is exactly what I have experienced on a few occasions.
 
Brad W said:
Just thought of a random question. Prob a silly one to most of you, but I've never owned an aircraft so I've never had to deal with this stuff...

So I assume that most don't typically keep the maintenance logs onboard.
Say upir on a trip and have an issue. You find a local mechanic to fix you up....
but it's got to be logged to be airworthy, right?
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
The FAA has no definition of what a 'maintenance record' is, only what it must contain. So you could use an old box of paper scraps if you want.

But specifically, yes, as long as the scrap of paper contains the correct information and is signed by the anp its legal. See FAR 91.417
 
pfarber said:
So you could use an old box of paper scraps if you want.
Click to expand...

A friend who worked in safety at one of our chemical plants in the south used to say “I don’t care how you note a safety issue or near miss, write it on a corn husk and leave it on my desk, I don’t care, just report it”. Love that guy.
 
After each annual I burn a CD/DVD of all the logbooks. One stays in the airplane. Hence I always have the log books with me. The physical log books stay in the safe deposit box.
 
Brad W said:
Just thought of a random question. Prob a silly one to most of you, but I've never owned an aircraft so I've never had to deal with this stuff...

So I assume that most don't typically keep the maintenance logs onboard.
Say upir on a trip and have an issue. You find a local mechanic to fix you up....
but it's got to be logged to be airworthy, right?
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
yep.
 
Brad W said:
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
In todays world, a number of mechanics will use self-adhesive labels for the entries since they can print them out on the computer. But any medium will work and be legal. Back in the day before computers and label use I used to keep 5x7 lined cards in my toolbox to make mx entries on which could then be stapled into to mx log at a later date.

Actually its the owner who controls the maintenance record and it can be any format or medium you want provided it meets the requirements. However, you'll still run across some mechanics you insist on making entries in the actual logbook, but that's merely an opinion vs what the existing guidance presents.
 
I got mine via email before I went and picked up the plane.
 
Print it, and when you get home, cut it to fit the logbook page and attach it with a glue stick.

I assume an electronic signature and emailing it would do, too.
 
My mechanics use stickers,I was just on a trip and needed some work,that mechanic gave me a sticker.
 
ateamer said:
I assume an electronic signature and emailing it would do, too.
Click to expand...
Part 43 sign-offs still require an FAA approved system which few ops outside 121/135 use. And even some of the 135 ops still want a duplicate ink sign-off on the 91.417 required records in case they sell an aircraft and the buyer elects the non-coded version of those records.
 
Bell206 said:
Wow. What 3 years can do for someone. Perhaps you're actually learning something on here. Or are "scraps" only not allowed when I post it? ;)

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/best-x-c-aircraft-besides-vans-rv.133960/page-3

View attachment 132282

View attachment 132281
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Your confusion is obvious (to me, but others seem to have missed it), you missed the distinction.

I guess I'm gonna have to walk it through for the riders of the short bus:

Unless ALL your mx records are kept in the glove box (ADs, engine/airframe/appliance/anuals etc) then the glove box is not your maintenance record.

I guess in today's world of internet kommando's you could say 'planet earth is my maintenance record' and really stick it to the FAA. :rolleyes:

Bottom line is my statements are correct. anps can write on anything as long as it meets 43.9. Owners/operators must comply with 91.417 regarding maintenance records.

Remember FAR 43 covers MX, 91 covers owners operators. Or does that need explaining also? I can draw a picture if that helps?

Remember kiddo's, playing 'google gotcha' rarely works if you don't comprehend what you are reading and only post the first result of a search.

Ninja edits... so many edits so I don't hurt the fragile ego's of internet kommando's
 
Last edited:
murphey said:
After each annual I burn a CD/DVD of all the logbooks. One stays in the airplane. Hence I always have the log books with me. The physical log books stay in the safe deposit box.
Click to expand...
I hope you keep an optical disk drive in the airplane as well, lest you hand someone a CD/DVD and they say "what do I do with this ?"
 
Even when I have the logs, most of the mechanics I deal with use a computer to prepare a sticker that gets stuck in the log book.
 
flyingron said:
Even when I have the logs, most of the mechanics I deal with use a computer to prepare a sticker that gets stuck in the log book.
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I have yet to have any mechanic actually write anything in my logbooks. All stickers. I've handwritten a couple oil changes, but you have to go back 10 years to find the next oldest handwritten entry. I even bought stickers and started using them just to make it nice & legible like everything else.
 
Brad W said:
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
That's normally it, the most common thing seems to be a printed sticker you just put in the book.
 
Brad W said:
Just thought of a random question. Prob a silly one to most of you, but I've never owned an aircraft so I've never had to deal with this stuff...

So I assume that most don't typically keep the maintenance logs onboard.
Say upir on a trip and have an issue. You find a local mechanic to fix you up....
but it's got to be logged to be airworthy, right?
So do the A&P's just write a slip of paper that they give to you to tape into your logs when you get home?
Click to expand...
Yep. I've always gotten a self adhesive label with all the information and signatures that I stick in my logbook when I get home.
 
asicer said:
I hope you keep an optical disk drive in the airplane as well, lest you hand someone a CD/DVD and they say "what do I do with this ?"
Click to expand...
@murphey , this was my thought exactly. You hand me a CD (of anything), I have literally no way to access it.

I'd recommend switching from your CD/DVD method to a USB drive or cloud storage.
 
RussR said:
@murphey , this was my thought exactly. You hand me a CD (of anything), I have literally no way to access it.

I'd recommend switching from your CD/DVD method to a USB drive or cloud storage.
Click to expand...

one way to deal with folks that can’t read a CD is to bring a USB CD reader with you
 
thanks everyone. So it's pretty much what I imagined it might be.
side thought... I wonder what all these logbooks are gonna look like in 40 or 50 years or whenever all that sticker adhesive starts failing
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Some print stuff on a sticker and sign it, then you put in the log book when you get home.
Click to expand...
This
murphey said:
After each annual I burn a CD/DVD of all the logbooks. One stays in the airplane. Hence I always have the log books with me. The physical log books stay in the safe deposit box.
Click to expand...
and this.

I burn 2 copies every year, keep one in the airplane, and one in the safety deposit box.
Brad W said:
thanks everyone. So it's pretty much what I imagined it might be.
side thought... I wonder what all these logbooks are gonna look like in 40 or 50 years or whenever all that sticker adhesive starts failing
Click to expand...
Mine are paper logbooks are 23 years old, and none of the stickers have degraded. In 40 or 50 years, who cares - I'll be dead. Plus, you can always print out clean duplicates from the CD.
 
pfarber said:
Your confusion is obvious (to me, but others seem to have missed it), you missed the distinction.

I guess I'm gonna have to walk it through for the riders of the short bus:

Unless ALL your mx records are kept in the glove box (ADs, engine/airframe/appliance/anuals etc) then the glove box is not your maintenance record.

I guess in today's world of internet kommando's you could say 'planet earth is my maintenance record' and really stick it to the FAA. :rolleyes:

Bottom line is my statements are correct. anps can write on anything as long as it meets 43.9. Owners/operators must comply with 91.417 regarding maintenance records.

Remember FAR 43 covers MX, 91 covers owners operators. Or does that need explaining also? I can draw a picture if that helps?

Remember kiddo's, playing 'google gotcha' rarely works if you don't comprehend what you are reading and only post the first result of a search.

Ninja edits... so many edits so I don't hurt the fragile ego's of internet kommando's
Click to expand...

He crushed you and you don't even have the guts to admit it.
 
Bob Noel said:
one way to deal with folks that can’t read a CD is to bring a USB CD reader with you
Click to expand...
I agree that's an options, but how is that better than just putting it on a USB flash drive that can plug into any computer, and is smaller as well?
 
RussR said:
I agree that's an options, but how is that better than just putting it on a USB flash drive that can plug into any computer, and is smaller as well?
Click to expand...

The disc is read only
 
pfarber said:
The FAA has no definition of what a 'maintenance record' is, only what it must contain. So you could use an old box of paper scraps if you want.
Click to expand...
I keep waiting for the investigation in which the FAA asks for the maintenance logs and the owner dumps a box of unorganized of scrap paper on their desk. Should be fun to watch.
 
Brad W said:
I wonder what all these logbooks are gonna look like in 40 or 50 years or whenever all that sticker adhesive starts failing
Click to expand...
While I haven't had much problems with the glue even on old labels, at least we will be able to read those old write ups better than the chicken-scratch write-ups of years past.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Here's the deal: If one presents nice neat books, it's easy for the Inspector to look up what he's after. Present a box full of disorganized notes, and the Inspector is going to look at EVERYTHING. And they usually find a few easter eggs.
Click to expand...
Similar to what an ASI told me about most investigations - they often find a different violation too. I’ve seen several examples.
 
I once did an annual on a J3 Cub that had originally come from Canada. The logs were these 8 1/2 x 11 inch notebooks and the guy who had been maintaining the plane for the past fifty years or so liked to make his entries in script all the way across both pages. So basically an 11x17 inch format. And he was pretty wordy if you get my drift so there was a lot of stuff to read, the vast majority of which was of no use to me.

This is why I've always appreciated log entries that are terse and to the point.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I keep waiting for the investigation in which the FAA asks for the maintenance logs and the owner dumps a box of unorganized of scrap paper on their desk. Should be fun to watch.
Click to expand...

The FAA only requires record retention for one year or until the maintenance action is repeated, so a year’s worth will only be three or four sheets of paper anyway.
 
Bell206 said:
While I haven't had much problems with the glue even on old labels, at least we will be able to read those old write ups better than the chicken-scratch write-ups of years past.
Click to expand...

Amen. I have the logs back to day one, but the old yellowed and cracking papyrus covered with pencilled notations in Sanskrit requires an archaeologist to decipher. Not that replacing a landing light 42 years ago has much significance today anyway...
 
Half Fast said:
The FAA only requires record retention for one year or until the maintenance action is repeated, so a year’s worth will only be three or four sheets of paper anyway.
Click to expand...

So have you cleaned out your logbooks and thrown away all those unnecessary pages?
 
Bell206 said:
While I haven't had much problems with the glue even on old labels, at least we will be able to read those old write ups better than the chicken-scratch write-ups of years past.
Click to expand...
Exactly, some people's hand writing is terrilbe like mine. There are entry's in my logs that I can't read from years prior. And they are very vague.
Does anyone keep all of their receipts for parts and service with the logs?
 
I don't give any mechanics my log books. Even my home one.

I do have a PDF I can supply them.

They all do a printed and signed sticker for the log book.

FYI, even sticking the sticker on the log book is optional. Regs say you only need to keep the record for a year.

I personally , stick them all in the log books.
 
Typed and printed stickers are the most practical and legible. When I rebuilt my aircraft, the airframe sticker was 3 full 8x11' pages long. The engine shop gave me a full page sticker with my overhaul. I bought one of those snazzy full size log sets that go in a binder and restarted everything.

You gotta give the A&P a copy of your log for annuals, to verify performance of one-time AD's and such.
 
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