Dan Gryder Lockheed Electra Crash

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172andyou said:
Yeah, I'm not fan of Dan's, but by the time an issue became apparent a go around would have resulted in a much higher energy crash into the trees at the end of the strip.

Based on what we know today, the second guessing should be on what might have been done differently to prevent the brake failure to begin with.
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Or detect it earlier.....
 
Lindberg said:
Or detect it earlier.....
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Yeah, sure.

I guess I'm looking the other way on that one because I can't remember if I've ever done a before landing brake check. I know my checklist doesn't have it, but think someone mentioned that his did.
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, I'm not fan of Dan's, but by the time an issue became apparent a go around would have resulted in a much higher energy crash into the trees at the end of the strip.

Based on what we know today, the second guessing should be on what might have been done differently to prevent the brake failure to begin with.
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When you land a single engine taildragger, you should be ready to add power to either straighten out or go-around if able(and necessary). On a twin, you should be ready to use differential power to straighten out(or at least prevent you from heading toward an obstacle. It is more likely that you will be ready to do this maneuver in the short time available for a positive recovery if you mentioned it to yourself as a reminder prior to touchdown. A simple increase in power on the left engine at the appropriate time would have straightened things out at least to a certain extent. One can even use a lot of power to intentionally groundloop if an obstacle is looming ahead.
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, sure.

I guess I'm looking the other way on that one because I can't remember if I've ever done a before landing brake check. I know my checklist doesn't have it, but think someone mentioned that his did.
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I was always taught to check the brakes for proper feel and pressure before every landing. It’s helped twice when things might have gone bad with no check. It won’t prevent a failure on initial application after touchdown but it will detect a slow leak that has compromised the brake system.
 
Jeff767 said:
I was always taught to check the brakes for proper feel and pressure before every landing. It’s helped twice when things might have gone bad with no check. It won’t prevent a failure on initial application after touchdown but it will detect a slow leak that has compromised the brake system.
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Oh, sure. It totally makes sense. Just saying that it's not something I was ever taught and isn't on any checklist I've ever had.
 
I once had one of the brake disks break off (!) of a Travel Air. The runway was long and wide enough so that getting stopped was not too difficult, but directional control during taxi was really a bear. I wish it had occurred to me to use differential power.
 
Just watched a new Gryder video. He reported on the NTSB preliminary. The NTSB report says that the tailwheel handle was found in the Locked position.
 
Let's say you start a landing without it locked. Hypothetically, could you successfully pull that lever/flip the switch/whatever it is during the rollout when things are obviously not working or after the crash?
 
SkyChaser said:
Let's say you start a landing without it locked. Hypothetically, could you successfully pull that lever/flip the switch/whatever it is during the rollout when things are obviously not working or after the crash?
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Only way to be sure on whether it was locked or not, would be pull the tailwheel strut assembly and tear it down and examine the locking parts.
 
Craig said:
Only way to be sure on whether it was locked or not, would be pull the tailwheel strut assembly and tear it down and examine the locking parts.
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The video showed the tailwheel rotating around. Either lock was broken or wasn't locked.
 
I thought gryder said he doesn’t lock the wheel on that aircraft.
 
Daleandee said:
Might hold off on that until after the crash ... :dunno:
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I've seen someone try to put the gear down after a gear up... it was comical seeing the tailwheel come down... but I honestly doubt that happened in this accident.

Maybe, maybe someone did try to lock the tailwheel after they swerved, but there wasn't a lot of time and I doubt that they were in a condition to do so after the impact.
 
My recollection of tailwheel locks is that you can pull the handle, but the tailwheel has to be centered for the lock to drop in place.
 
RyanShort1 said:
I've seen someone try to put the gear down after a gear up... it was comical seeing the tailwheel come down... but I honestly doubt that happened in this accident.

Maybe, maybe someone did try to lock the tailwheel after they swerved, but there wasn't a lot of time and I doubt that they were in a condition to do so after the impact.
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I'll wait for the NTSB report.

That's the kicker - as much as DG has publicly trashed on the NTSB, I'm willing to be the NTSB Final report will go into great detail not the condition of the tailwheel locking components.

If the lock was in place and something broke, that will be apparent.

But, if they find the lock in place and nothing wrong and everything else is intact....
 
RyanShort1 said:
I've seen someone try to put the gear down after a gear up... it was comical seeing the tailwheel come down... but I honestly doubt that happened in this accident.

Maybe, maybe someone did try to lock the tailwheel after they swerved, but there wasn't a lot of time and I doubt that they were in a condition to do so after the impact.
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Or maybe someone did lock the tailwheel, but when Gryder saw the video of the thing spinning around he came up with the story about never locking it and not needing to, not knowing that it was actually broken. Will he maintain that it had nothing to due with the LOC, or will he now deflect blame to the broken lock?
 
Lindberg said:
Or maybe someone did lock the tailwheel, but when Gryder saw the video of the thing spinning around he came up with the story about never locking it and not needing to, not knowing that it was actually broken. Will he maintain that it had nothing to due with the LOC, or will he now deflect blame to the broken lock?
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Hmmm...are you suggesting the cause was GLOC (Gryder Loss Of Continuity)? :)

Ron Wanttaja
 
Theory: Could someone have realized after the accident(while still in the cockpit for a long time) that they had never locked the tailwheel, realized that it was supposed to be locked for landing, and therefore decided to put the handle in the locked position(sort of like guys who put the handle down after landing gear-up). Knowing that the NTSB would ask about this, the answer would be...."of course it was locked". All this would have been based on the expectation that there would be no video proving that the tailwheel was actually unlocked. Once the video came to light, the story would have to change. Now it would be......I never lock the tailwheel....it is unecessary....I don't care what the manual says, I have been doing this for years." The B-nut would mysteriously become loose soon after.

Just a theory of coourse....I will delete this video...ahem....post soon.
 
woxof said:
Just a theory of coourse....I will delete this video...ahem....post soon.
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Sure, that's why I said that it would require a tear down of the tailwheel assembly to verify if it was locked or not. If I remember correctly, the locking key is brass, so quite soft and easy to shear.
 
Racerx said:
But Gryder and Jones have nothing to back up what they speculate. So that makes them a conspiracy theorist. They haven't done interviews or any actual unbiased analysis.

What does that make the people that believe or have anything thought provoking beyond an eye roll when digesting their content?
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I hate starting fights but sometimes statements require a stand.
I don't know about the first party in your statement but by the second party and your statement it shows you are definitely a certified liar.
"But Gryder and Jones have nothing to back up what they speculate. So that makes them a conspiracy theorist. They haven't done interviews or any actual unbiased analysis."
 
Clayzz said:
I hate starting fights but sometimes statements require a stand.
I don't know about the first party in your statement but by the second party and your statement it shows you are definitely a certified liar.
"But Gryder and Jones have nothing to back up what they speculate. So that makes them a conspiracy theorist. They haven't done interviews or any actual unbiased analysis."
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If Gryder could have backed up his statements, he wouldn't have lost a defamation lawsuit.
 
Clayzz said:
I hate starting fights but sometimes statements require a stand.
I don't know about the first party in your statement but by the second party and your statement it shows you are definitely a certified liar.
"But Gryder and Jones have nothing to back up what they speculate. So that makes them a conspiracy theorist. They haven't done interviews or any actual unbiased analysis."
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Interestingly, you chose not to back up your statement.
 
Ben Loper said:
I think he got a pretty good price, it was very well maintained.
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I suppose 'very well maintained' is a bit subjective.

I'm not implying anything was improper or unairworthy, but of the DC-3s I've flown or ridden in, Dan's was in the roughest condition, but I attributed that primarily to the one that when I flew it had the most use.
 
Does anyone know if the tailwheel lock worked on the aforementioned DC-3?
(not that you need to use it...)
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh, it worked! DG had a tailwheel fork in his hangar that he himself once destroyed years ago trying to tow it with the lock engaged....
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Come on Dan, you have to check things before you start towing. Operate a Fairchild PT, check that the flight controls are unlocked before towing. Operate a T-6 or P-51, check that the flight controls are locked before towing. These systems are associated with the tailwheel. Many other aircraft have something similar.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh, it worked! DG had a tailwheel fork in his hangar that he himself once destroyed years ago trying to tow it with the lock engaged....
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Jesus, wouldn't it be nice to have a single story here where Dan wasn't making things less safe. I hadn't heard this one.
 
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