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- Jul 29, 2011
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MountainDude
I am confused why they did not fly back to the runway? Can the plane not maintain altitude with the canopy off?
With that AOA you are not going anywhere but down.I am confused why they did not fly back to the runway? Can the plane not maintain altitude with the canopy off?
The title card at the end says why.I am confused why they did not fly back to the runway? Can the plane not maintain altitude with the canopy off?
I guess if they let go of the canopy, it could have damaged the V tail and resulted in total loss of control.The title card at the end says why.
Why did they fly it at all?
That's my question?
I would hated to learn to fly in something that small and unproven.
Is that the first time the canopy has come apart on this model aircraft. Wow they are lucky someone didn't get seriously hurt by the canopy.
N220JD, ERA21LA396, Probable Cause, "The pilot’s failure to maintain a proper glidepath during landing. Contributing to the accident was his failure to ensure the canopy locks were properly configured prior to flight."Is that the first time the canopy has come apart on this model aircraft. Wow they are lucky someone didn't get seriously hurt by the canopy.
Wow. That seems excessive.Canopy problems have contributed to 54 different accidents in a variety of aircraft types, in my 1998-2022 list of homebuilt accidents.
Ron Wanttaja
The advantage of a canopy is two-fold. First, it's the easiest way to implement a closed cockpit. Fitting a door is more difficult, as the canopy merely sits atop the fuselage and adjustment is less fiddly.Wow. That seems excessive.
I suppose many of those accident aircraft have a canopy similar to the Sonex, essentially a plastic bubble without a rigid frame. It seems that design lends itself to distortions under air loads, and if the latching mechanism becomes compromised, the canopy may become a pilot distraction that can bring down the aircraft. There's also the risk it can be torn off and cause airframe damage.
Only if you like paying 10x the cost to fly. Let's not pretend that certified aircraft don't have accidents as well. I'll take a newer homebuilt with a proven track record from recent flight testing over a clapped out airplane that was certified 60 years ago any day.One more reason to fly certified aircraft.
The canopy latching mechanism was not per the Sonex design. The original builder did what they call the swing back canopy mod.
My math skills are just fine. I didn’t say it was 10x cheaper to buy, just 10x cheaper to own. Overall acquisition and ownership costs combined are close to 10x less than many common certified airplanes. Here are my real world numbers. I built my A model Sonex for less than 15k including the engine and panel. It burns slightly less than 4gph of mogas (or 100LL). Oil is $6 a quart from the local NAPA and I burn 1 quart every 100 hours if that. Yearly condition inspections are free as I have the repairman’s certificate from building and any parts that need to be replaced I can fabricate and install myself. A complete overhaul of my motor is less than $1500. Cylinders with pistons and rings are $150 each. Heads are $300. If the crank needs to be replaced it’s $800 for a brand new one. An entirely brand new engine can be bought for less than 8K. The airplane is made of 6061 which is far more corrosion resistant than the 2024 many others use so no need to pay for a hanger. It was parked outside for 7 years with just a canopy cover and has zero corrosion anywhere. Two of those years it wasn’t flown at all and the location was 30 miles from the ocean with all 4 New England seasons. A tie down is $55 a month vs $600 for a hanger in my area. Insurance is $450 a year for liability. I don’t have hull insurance because the plane does not have enough value to justify it.Glad you have what you want. My 50 and 70 year old airplanes are tried and true, kept in top shape with thorough annual inspections. I think you need to analyze your math skills. Would you like to show some real world, apples to apples used market numbers that are ten to one?
The wonderful thing is that you get to choose to risk your life in your experimental, built in a shed stuff and I get to choose my solid, tried and true factory built and supported aircraft for my own purposes.
Sounds like we’re both happy with our choices. I wish you the very best of luck.
Are you sure about that? The original discussion on the sonex forum a few years back had the builder say they incorporated the swing back mod. Maybe the new owner changed it back? Both versions use the double legged angle so you can prop the canopy open while taxiing. I agree that the video looks like it’s a side tilt though.Quick correction. The Sonex that is the subject of this thread did have a side mounted canopy and not the swing back modification. Look at the photo in post # 15 and look at it in the attached video. It does appear to have the latch modification to hold the canopy slightly open for ground ops but it is secured on the passenger side per a piano hinge as shown in the plans.
Mike’s Sonex canopy (post # 12) was a swing back version and the dangers of such a mod are pretty evident.
Like the 737.One more reason to fly certified aircraft.
Remind me which factory built Sonex equivalent you’d prefer over the Sonex?Oh, is there a 737 equivalent built in a shed? Sorry, I didn’t know that.
You are comparing your $15000 overhaul cost to the $8000 cost for a completely new engine which is not a valid comparison. Overhaul costs for an aerovee are closer to $1500. How much are you paying for 100ll at 5gph vs mogas at 3.8gph? How much is the STC to allow you to run mogas if you wanted to? You also didn’t include the cost of your annuals or parts you have had to buy for it since owning it. How much is a new windshield to buy and have installed? It’s $400 for the sonex canopy and doesn’t require paying an A&P to install. No I don’t factor in my time. Do you charge yourself an hourly rate for all your hobbies? Those years building were because I too am an engineer and I like building things. It was a hobby to do after dinner or free time on the weekends.Hmmmmm….. I’m still trying to find 10 to 1.
My Cessna 140 is a rough equivalent, with a few exceptions of course, like doors on both sides, capacity for two large people, an IFR panel to include a 430 and ADS-B transponder. 5.5 GPH vs 4, $45,000 (that’s the offer I turned down for it recently)vs your $15,000 (oh, wait a minute, if you built it, you must be considering your time to be worth zero.), engine rebuild $15,000 vs. $8,000 I think you said,….. I’m having a tough time finding ten to one in these numbers, but maybe it’s because I’m an engineer so must not know much about numbers. Oh, I forgot about the $6 vs $10 oil. Is that ten to one?
Yup. 737-Max.Oh, is there a 737 equivalent built in a shed? Sorry, I didn’t know that.
The Sonex's fuselage is a lifting body, so I imagine having a broken canopy results in a fairly significant reduction in lift.
Hmmm…. I’m still feverishly searching for your 10 to one contrast. A new Continental O200 is not available but if it were, it wouldn’t cost $80,000. BTW what is the TBO on your engine?You are comparing your $15000 overhaul cost to the $8000 cost for a completely new engine which is not a valid comparison. Overhaul costs for an aerovee are closer to $1500. How much are you paying for 100ll at 5gph vs mogas at 3.8gph? How much is the STC to allow you to run mogas if you wanted to? You also didn’t include the cost of your annuals or parts you have had to buy for it since owning it. How much is a new windshield to buy and have installed? It’s $400 for the sonex canopy and doesn’t require paying an A&P to install. No I don’t factor in my time. Do you charge yourself an hourly rate for all your hobbies? Those years building were because I too am an engineer and I like building things. It was a hobby to do after dinner or free time on the weekends.
All those incremental cost differences anbove add up over time and will get you to that 10:1 number for many similar airplanes (not all). In the end it really doesn’t matter though as long as you like what you fly. As I said, both have their advantages and disadvantages and shouldn't be dismissed as a whole.
DCA13WA007 features a Boeing 737 listed as amateur-built, in the NTSB records. Do a CAROL search for "Boeing" with the "Amateur-Built" flag turned on.Oh, is there a 737 equivalent built in a shed? Sorry, I didn’t know that.
Indonesian plane and report. Someone miscoded it.DCA13WA007 features a Boeing 737 listed as amateur-built, in the NTSB records. Do a CAROL search for "Boeing" with the "Amateur-Built" flag turned on.
Also:
Ron Wanttaja
I'm not sure how much clearer can make it for you. It isn't one single cost that's 10x, it's all the incremental costs as they add up over time. Thar $1300 a year annual times 10 years is $13,000 dollars compared to my zero dollar cost over that sane period. That gas cost of $30 vs $12 times 1000 hours across those same 10 years is a $18,000 difference and so on and so on. If you can't understand that costs are cumulative over time then there is no point in continuing this conversation with you.Hmmm…. I’m still feverishly searching for your 10 to one contrast. A new Continental O200 is not available but if it were, it wouldn’t cost $80,000. BTW what is the TBO on your engine?
Okay 3.8 times $3.00 = $11.40, 5.5 x $5.29 = $29.09. Is THAT ten to one?
My annual was about twice as much as usual this year because I needed a whole new exhaust. The annual was $1300 and change which covers an oil and filter, air filter and the like. Done by one of the very best aircraft maintenance facilities anywhere and I am fortunate enough that they are right next door. I’m very happy to pay it. Both of my airplanes are solid, well maintained and require very little beyond maintenance..
I’m still waiting for you to show ANY of the cost deltas to be ten to one.