Who do you hand your certificate to?

robert lomax said:
dont froget, that years ago, an faa guy asked bob hoover to see his certificate!
the faa guy kept it, claiming that bob didnr do his airshow as good as he thought it should be done...
you know flying upside down, engines off, pouring tea,, etc...
it took bob years and many amus to get it back so he could fly again..
Click to expand...
That is completely NOT what happened to Bob Hoover. Hoover didn't surrender the certificate on the spot. The FAA didn't even ask him to. They subsequently asked him surrender it via mail which he did not realizing that he had a choice not to do so. The part about him spending a lot of time and money to restore it is correct however.
 
robert lomax said:
dont froget, that years ago, an faa guy asked bob hoover to see his certificate!
the faa guy kept it, claiming that bob didnr do his airshow as good as he thought it should be done...
you know flying upside down, engines off, pouring tea,, etc...
it took bob years and many amus to get it back so he could fly again..
Click to expand...
Um...yeah...that's how he grounded him...
 
midlifeflyer said:
Silly nonsense. You hand it over for inspection exactly the same way you hand your license and registration to a LEO on a traffic stop. And with exactly the same legal effect.
Click to expand...
Who is Leo?
 
Aight.....ok.. What am I missing here? Thread delete?:rolleyes::mad:
 
robert lomax said:
dont froget, that years ago, an faa guy asked bob hoover to see his certificate!
the faa guy kept it, claiming that bob didnr do his airshow as good as he thought it should be done...you know flying upside down, engines off, pouring tea,, etc...
Click to expand...
That's not the way it happened.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/january/pilot/pilot-counsel-hoover-obituary

...it took bob years and many amus to get it back so he could fly again..
Click to expand...

That part is correct.
 
I think ravioli did the guy a favor, he's likely to never do that dumbass move again.
 
3393RP said:
It was pretty much a dick move on your part, especially your smart ass remark after you pocketed it.

He didn't know you and had no idea what your intentions were.

You didn't think putting it in your pocket was provocative? I would have reacted in a similar fashion. I wouldn't threaten anyone, but it would ratchet up my response mechanism.

.
Click to expand...

Yea I am thoroughly confused...what's wrong with showing someone your a fellow pilot or A&P? Maybe I'm missing something here...your not supposed to show someone else you have a pilots license or something?
 
CC268 said:
Yea I am thoroughly confused...what's wrong with showing someone your a fellow pilot or A&P? Maybe I'm missing something here...your not supposed to show someone else you have a pilots license or something?
Click to expand...

I can never see an instance where I would give my ID, Certificate, passport, credit card anything really, to a stranger in a bar who had just struck up a conversation with me, I think that is a dumbass move.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I am thoroughly confused...what's wrong with showing someone your a fellow pilot or A&P? Maybe I'm missing something here...your not supposed to show someone else you have a pilots license or something?
Click to expand...

Stating you're into it is much more commonplace... I don't carry around my diploma to show I have a BA in Economics from CSUF. If it is relevant to the conversation it is usually just accepted as fact.

It's not like I said "you're no A&P" and he flopped it out and said Boo-yah! (Please Card, don't remind me I wrote flopped it out)
 
Ravioli said:
Stating you're into it is much more commonplace... I don't carry around my diploma to show I have a BA in Economics from CSUF. If it is relevant to the conversation it is usually just accepted as fact.

It's not like I said "you're no A&P" and he flopped it out and said Boo-yah! (Please Card, don't remind me I wrote flopped it out)
Click to expand...

Hmm gotcha...
 
flyingron said:
That is completely NOT what happened to Bob Hoover. Hoover didn't surrender the certificate on the spot. The FAA didn't even ask him to. They subsequently asked him surrender it via mail which he did not realizing that he had a choice not to do so. The part about him spending a lot of time and money to restore it is correct however.
Click to expand...

yes,,, you may remember better than i,,, many years and lots of madness after,,, my mind is dim....

but bob didnt intend to give up his flying privilages.
he was cheated, screwed, or robbed out of it,,,
he was still the worlds greatest pilot,
ill never get to speak to him again.....

i saw his act at kpwt,, bremerton, wa
wonderful guy
 
Threads looked this are why OWTs keep going. Even though many have stated that someone physically taking your certificate doesn't invalidate it, there are those who will be cautious enough to worry about it and perpetuate the myth.
 
Don't look too close and you you could flash your Repairman Certificate...looks just like the pilot version (same logos, hologram thingie, pic of Wright Flyer) until you read the fine print.

On the back, there's a pic of what looks to be Glenn Curtiss, instead of Orville and Wilbur.
 
I've mentioned this before:
The lady at the bank asked for my ID. I handed her my Pilot's Cert.
She looks at it, looks at me, looks back at it, then she shrugs and completes the transaction.
When she handed it back she said "You should get a new ID, you don't look anything like the pictures on it."
 
flyingron said:
That is completely NOT what happened to Bob Hoover. Hoover didn't surrender the certificate on the spot. The FAA didn't even ask him to. They subsequently asked him surrender it via mail which he did not realizing that he had a choice not to do so. The part about him spending a lot of time and money to restore it is correct however.
Click to expand...
Alternative facts.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
 
Everskyward said:
Threads looked this are why OWTs keep going. Even though many have stated that someone physically taking your certificate doesn't invalidate it, there are those who will be cautious enough to worry about it and perpetuate the myth.
Click to expand...
The actual process of voluntarily and permanently surrendering a pilot certificate is pretty detailed and the FAA personnel I've dealt with are very scrupulous about following it very carefully.

Go here and scroll down to "5-318 VOLUNTARY SURRENDER OF CERTIFICATE OR RATING"
 
Speaking of checking certificates....does anyone think it silly to check mechanics' certification? Ones that are working on your airplane? I thought it would be intrusive, impolite, and all that.
Before the FAA airman database or internet access was widely available, there was a mechanic in my area who hung out a shingle, worked on airplanes for years, invented an A+P number, did some ok work and some disastrous work. The latter got the attention of the FAA and he was outed, and disappeared. Messed up a few airplanes, and I think others he was known to be in the logs on got re-inspected. Not sure if he was fined or anything but I doubt it.
Nowadays if there is question, 2 minutes on the internet answers it. Rightly so. No more need to demand to see zee papers. :)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Alternative facts.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
Click to expand...
Those are the actual facts. The thread was derailed and obfuscated by lomax's ungrammatical and blatantly false characterization of what happened (and his laughable reaction to the truth).
 
Everyone knows there can only be one fact for every situation. :rolleyes:
 
flyingron said:
It used to be that the "experts" espoused that you shouldn't let the certificates out of your hand while presenting them for inspection lest the FAA consider that a voluntary surrender and run off with it. The FAA has stated countless times since then, that a voluntary surrender has to really be voluntary and accompanied with a written statement that you are surrendering the certificates.
Click to expand...
Not on stated, but they've written it into the regulation for the benefit of the most paranoid...

§61.27 Voluntary surrender or exchange of certificate.
(a) The holder of a certificate issued under this part may voluntarily surrender it for:

(1) Cancellation;

(2) Issuance of a lower grade certificate; or

(3) Another certificate with specific ratings deleted.

(b) Any request made under paragraph (a) of this section must include the following signed statement or its equivalent: “This request is made for my own reasons, with full knowledge that my (insert name of certificate or rating, as appropriate) may not be reissued to me unless I again pass the tests prescribed for its issuance.”
 
flyingron said:
Those are the actual facts. The thread was derailed and obfuscated by lomax's ungrammatical and blatantly false characterization of what happened (and his laughable reaction to the truth).
Click to expand...
I was using the term to refer to his version.

To fill it out a little more, the Hoover case did not involve handing over anything to an ASI for inspection and it being treated as a surrender. The two ASIs who started the ball rolling apparently did it in secret and never even spoke to him at the scene.

The "surrender" in the case involved a voluntary surrender of his medical (not pilot) certificate at the FAA's request while undergoing medical testing. When he asked for it back, the FAA ordered an emergency revocation of his medical. Although the process in place at the time definitely sucked, it was still far more formal than "Let me see your certificate. Ha ha, it's mine now!"
 
Brad Z said:
Not on stated, but they've written it into the regulation for the benefit of the most paranoid...

§61.27 Voluntary surrender or exchange of certificate.
(a) The holder of a certificate issued under this part may voluntarily surrender it for:

(1) Cancellation;

(2) Issuance of a lower grade certificate; or

(3) Another certificate with specific ratings deleted.

(b) Any request made under paragraph (a) of this section must include the following signed statement or its equivalent: “This request is made for my own reasons, with full knowledge that my (insert name of certificate or rating, as appropriate) may not be reissued to me unless I again pass the tests prescribed for its issuance.”
Click to expand...
Shhh... you're going to confuse some with facts.
 
Ravioli said:
Funny thing this evening.

I'm having a beer waiting for @Ravioli's co-pilot to finish getting her nails done.

So, I'm kind of a social and I'm talking to the guy next to me and she comes in and somehow Oshkosh comes up.

He says, oh, that's the aviation version of Sturgess. I'm like, yeah, duh!

He whips out his cert and throws it to me. I look and see he's an A&P. Kinda cool, but strange.

I put it in my pocket and said, "Never surrender your cert to anyone without cause"

He's like I'll beat you into the ground before I let you leave with it.

I'm like, shoulda kept it in your pocket.

Anyway, I gave it back without any fist-to-cuffs... and the clown left, but WHAT THE HECK?

additional data point: 6:30PM... not like we had been pounding down beers for hours.
Click to expand...


that exchange should have probably gone like this:

you and guy:blah blah yada yada, how bout those Falcons
wife:blah blah oshkosh blah blah yada yada.
guy: (intrigued)produces cert
you: (slides cert back) oh wow, you're an A&P, cool, i've been flying for... blah blah yada yada
you and guy: airplane stuff blah blah flaps blah blah horsepower, take it easy

he probably thought it would spark a conversation, but then he got whatever that was he got from you, walks away, puzzled, thinking wow, that pilot was a....
 
exncsurfer said:
he probably thought it would spark a conversation, but then he got whatever that was he got from you, walks away, puzzled, thinking wow, that pilot was a....
Click to expand...

Again, if he just said he was a mechanic it would have gone differently. The "I'll show you yours if you show me mine" aspect of the whole exchange is what I was commenting on.

And to finish your sentence "That pilot was a... guy who will never be my customer."
 
Ravioli said:
Again, if he just said he was a mechanic it would have gone differently. The "I'll show you yours if you show me mine" aspect of the whole exchange is what I was commenting on.

And to finish your sentence "That pilot was a... guy who will never be my customer."
Click to expand...

One of these days you're gonna pull that shet on the wrong person. Be careful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top