When departing from controlled airport

[John777]

When departing from the controlled airport, be it Class C or D, is it always straight out or 45degree left/right upon reaching TPA?

If not, does tower accepts whatever the departure plan a pilot requests before T/O ?

John,

 

[denverpilot]

Depends.

 

[iamtheari]

Depends.

This is the correct answer. And it will vary wildly depending on...well, depending on the things that it depends on. The key will always be to inform the controller what you want, understand what they tell you to do, and ask for clarification if you aren't 100% sure of it.

 

[rk911]

When departing from the controlled airport, be it Class C or D, is it always straight out or 45degree left/right upon reaching TPA?

If not, does tower accepts whatever the departure plan a pilot requests before T/O ?

John,

my experience at my home class D is to notify ground prior to taxi of my direction of flight. when tower gives clearance for T/O they will clear you for that direction...left turn approved, right turn approved, straight out approved, cleared on route, etc. i was taught not to make the cleared turn prior to the end of the runway at less than TPA.

 

[Shawn]

There is no universal standard VFR departure procedure that would apply to all C/D. State your departure intentions with ground/tower and simply fly that unless instructed otherwise. Absent noise abatement procedures and/or published restrictions they will tell ya if you need to fly anything other than turn on course heading after DER.

i was taught not to make the cleared turn prior to the end of the runway at less than TPA.

Yup. I trained at a 10,000' runway Delta field and it was common to get "early turnout approved" prior to DER but it was always coordinated with tower if we were making any turns before the end of the runway.

 

[dmspilot]

When departing from the controlled airport, be it Class C or D, is it always straight out or 45degree left/right upon reaching TPA?

No.

If not, does tower accepts whatever the departure plan a pilot requests before T/O ?

No.

The tower will assign or approve a departure plan based on your requested direction of flight and external factors (e.g. traffic).

 

[Kritchlow]

It's been many, many years, but I always told tower what kind of departure I wanted to do. They always said "approved", or gave me alternate instruction.

I think the key here is communication. Get it squared away before the upwind leg.

 

[forseth11]

Tell the tower where you want to go. If they tell you things like early cross wind approved or right turn out approved, then fly that. If they just clear you for take off and you are going straight, then fly straight. If they clear you and you want to do the other way, turn into the traffic pattern like normal. If you want to make a right turn out, ask the controller for it, and then do what they tell you.

 

[Doggtyred]

When departing from the controlled airport, be it Class C or D, is it always straight out or 45degree left/right upon reaching TPA?

If not, does tower accepts whatever the departure plan a pilot requests before T/O ?

John,

What has been your experience thus far in your training? For instance, at the field you are flying out of now? or the towered field you might be training at?

 

[tsts4]

Ok this is off topic but I've got to ask -- John777 what rating do you have? Are you a student or Private Pilot. I ask because early on you started asking a lot of IR questions and I think it was implied you were working on your instrument. But lately you added in a lot of primary questions that any Private Pilot should know. So what is your status--exactly?

 

[Velocity173]

Status is, random questions that his CFI should've answered long ago in his training.

 

[James331]

What everyone said.

Think at one time or another, by now, I've left tower's airspace about every possible direction.

Depends on what traffic they are working, local conditions, any noise issues, terrain, what you ask for, etc

 

[ifly4fun]

Status is, random questions that his CFI should've answered long ago in his training.

Or like me - maybe he completed a PPL 15 years ago and only recently began flying again with almost none at a towered airport. I find these questions, and the wealth of experience the replies bring very useful.

 

[James331]

I don't think I ever really covered that exact topic with my CFI ether, wouldn't fault anyone too bad for that question.

 

[jordane93]

Too many variables.

 

[Velocity173]

Or like me - maybe he completed a PPL 15 years ago and only recently began flying again with almost none at a towered airport. I find these questions, and the wealth of experience the replies bring very useful.

But the majority of his random questions could have been answered with a little bit of effort on his part. He's using the forum so he doesn't have to do the leg work himself.

 

[ifly4fun]

But the majority of his random questions could have been answered with a little bit of effort on his part. He's using the forum so he doesn't have to do the leg work himself.

I'd guess that's probably true for every question asked on this forum... But that's kinda the point isn't it? The fallout is he may have asked a question I wouldn't have thought of and in turn I found value in the discussion and answer. Otherwise we could all go hang out on Wikipedia and faa.gov.

 

[Velocity173]

I'd guess that's probably true for every question asked on this forum... But that's kinda the point isn't it? The fallout is he may have asked a question I wouldn't have thought of and in turn I found value in the discussion and answer. Otherwise we could all go hang out on Wikipedia and faa.gov.

There's asking a few questions that you forget to ask your CFI, then there's non stop, random aviation questions that only come from a VATSIM gamer that doesn't know where to look.

 

[ifly4fun]

There's asking a few questions that you forget to ask your CFI, then there's non stop, random aviation questions that only come from a VATSIM gamer that doesn't know where to look.

Guess I better check my quota!

 

[Velocity173]

Found him!

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...n-the-fb-groups-ppl-to-777-in-3-months.97443/

 

[exncsurfer]

I pretty much always get the 'runway heading' instruction with my takeoff, then when they're ready, they give me the turn to the departure direction that I had previously given to ground. Sometimes they'll give an early turn(and they'll add 'when able') if someone(big) is waiting behind me.

 

[sferguson524]

I'm going to echo what many people have said. This information is readily available in the AIM, and other pubs. It genuinely sounds like some ground lessons with your CFI or a ground instructor are appropriate. Your local community college may have a ground school class as well.

 

[F01LA]

I'm going to echo what many people have said. This information is readily available in the AIM, and other pubs. It genuinely sounds like some ground lessons with your CFI or a ground instructor are appropriate. Your local community college may have a ground school class as well.

Sometimes there's a difference between what the book says and what happens in reality. Additionally, as pilots we fly to different locations, so it's helpful to hear from others how different places (and controllers) may do things. This applies to more than just airport departures.

 

[Shawn]

I'm going to echo what many people have said. This information is readily available in the AIM, and other pubs. It genuinely sounds like some ground lessons with your CFI or a ground instructor are appropriate. Your local community college may have a ground school class as well.

Bull....as a low time pilot you knew where to look for everything in the AIM?...as a student pilot you covered ever possible scenario with your CFI?...and your CFI not only gave you the answer as well as the "why" behind the answer?

This is a forum for questions, answers, sharing of experience as we as the discussion as to understating why answers are what they are. You will NOT find that in the AIM.

...and to echo others, the question the OP asked specifically never came up in my ground training as he asked it...guess I need to go enroll in a community college ground school.

 

[MAKG1]

At my home airport, I've departed...

Straight out
Left 45
Right 45
Left crosswind (past the bridge, noise abatement)
Right crosswind (past the bridge, noise abatement)
Left downwind
Right downwind (rare on 31; only if there is a Stanford game or the cops flying over East PA)
Left 270 (noise abatement on 13)
Right 270

ATIS says to give my departure request to Ground, so that's what I do. Sometimes they modify it, but not usually.

Have I left anything out?

 

[flyingron]

You're free to do what you want that unless the regulations say differently. If the tower doesn't give you a restriction (fly runway heading or whatever), you're free to go on your way once you reach a safe altitude.

 

[mscard88]

You're free to do what you want that unless the regulations say differently. If the tower doesn't give you a restriction (fly runway heading or whatever), you're free to go on your way once you reach a safe altitude.

Yup. ALMOST as simple as this. Fly what you want unless told differently. But you should request a turn on course from the tower, just tell them which way ya wanna go.

 

[Ravioli]

Tell ground your destination if you are arranging Flight Following.
Tell Tower which cardinal direction you want to go. They'll tell you how they want you to pointed in that direction as part of your T/O clearance.

Example:
Me: ____ Tower, Bugdestroyer 666 is ready for takeoff RW18 at Alpha, North departure.
Them: Bugdestroyer 666, cleared for takeoff RW18, left turns

Sometimes they'll ask if you have a turn preference. When asked I always take the other side from the pattern kids.

 

[jspilot]

I don't like the people belittling the OP for asking a question. That should not be happening. We should be helping each other out not shooting down well intentioned questions.

Anyway, the only time I've needed to ask the tower for clarification is if my intended direction of flight was opposite the takeoff path( I.e departing to the south while taking off using runway 33 or something.) I'll ask before taking the runway if the tower wants me to depart off the left downwind or the right downwind. Usually I'll say, "cleared for takeoff requesting a left downwind departure." To which I usually get, "cleared for takeoff left downwind departure approved." Or "cleared for takeoff, depart off the right downwind."

I've ran into situations where a pilot assumed it was left traffic( because most airports are, and then got themselves into a tough spot when they went to make the left then only to be told by the tower to make right traffic. It's rare but it can happen.

 

[flyingron]

The default right/left traffic thing only applies to nontowered airports. If the airport has a tower, unless ATC tells you to make a specific turn or traffic pattern, VFR you are free to do what you want (I suppose if there's a published noise abatement procedure you should follow that.

 

[luvflyin]

The default right/left traffic thing only applies to nontowered airports. If the airport has a tower, unless ATC tells you to make a specific turn or traffic pattern, VFR you are free to do what you want (I suppose if there's a published noise abatement procedure you should follow that.

Left turns still applies. Compliance with 91.126 is required at all airports. If the controller says neither left or right, then it is left. Edit: That's for landing, doesn't really apply to this discussion about departures. AIM 4-3-3 covers it pretty well. See examples 6 in FIG's 4-3-2 and 4-3-3.

 

[luvflyin]

When departing from the controlled airport, be it Class C or D, is it always straight out or 45degree left/right upon reaching TPA?

If not, does tower accepts whatever the departure plan a pilot requests before T/O ?

John,

Nothing is ever "always" except for @iamthari's "always" in post #3

 

[flyingron]

Left turns still applies. Compliance with 91.126 is required at all airports. If the controller says neither left or right, then it is left. Edit: That's for landing, doesn't really apply to this discussion about departures. AIM 4-3-3 covers it pretty well. See examples 6 in FIG's 4-3-2 and 4-3-3.

No, it does not. Read 91.126 again carefully. Nothing in 4-3-3 says otherwise either. The left turn rule applies only to airports without control towers.

As for 4-3-3 in the AIM, if the tower tells you to make right or left traffic, that's great. If they don't the traffic pattern information is entirely spurious.

 

[luvflyin]

No, it does not. Read 91.126 again carefully. Nothing in 4-3-3 says otherwise either.

Yeah. The reference back to 91.126 from 128, 129, 130 and 131 made me jump to the conclusion that the intent was left traffic unless otherwise indicated. But "without an operating control tower in Class G airspace" covers it. My thinking was probably clouded by this from the ATC handbook: the underlining and being in Bold is mine for emphasis

LANDING INFORMATION
Provide current landing information, as appropriate,
to arriving aircraft. Landing information contained in
the ATIS broadcast may be omitted if the pilot states
the appropriate ATIS code. Runway, wind, and
altimeter may be omitted if a pilot uses the phrase
“have numbers.” Issue landing information by
including the following:
NOTE−
Pilot use of “have numbers” does not indicate receipt of the
ATIS broadcast.
a. Specific traffic pattern information (may be
omitted if the aircraft is to circle the airport to the left).

Do you still have the FAR 91 from back before the Alphabet Soup airspace days? What does it say about left turns there?

The reference to AIM 4-3-3 and item 6 in the FIG's is that it is written somewhere that turns after departure should be in the direction of the traffic pattern that is in use for that runway.

 

[BigBadLou]

I don't like the people belittling the OP for asking a question. That should not be happening. We should be helping each other out not shooting down well intentioned questions.

Well, while you are right, it should not surprise you because this is PoA afterall and that's what goes on here every single day. *shrug*
I agree with the notion that the CFI should be covering this with the student for sure but if he doesn't then the student is smart to ask his questions here (and hopefully obtain answers without being chastised).
And some good answers have already popped up. So that's good.
I wonder when the OP will return to this thread. C'mon, Ryan, shake it off and come back, the guys aren't as bad as they sound hiding behind their Ynterweb keyboards.

 

[flyingron]

Yeah. The reference back to 91.126 from 128, 129, 130 and 131 made me jump to the conclusion that the intent was left traffic unless otherwise indicated. But "without an operating control tower in Class G airspace" covers it. My thinking was probably clouded by this from the ATC handbook: the underlining and being in Bold is mine for emphasis

You're still inventing stuff that it doesn't say. While there may be a left or right traffic pattern active, there's no obligation a pilot fly it unless ATC instructs him to do so. If he tells you to make a specific entry or pattern turn or to make a traffic pattern, that applies. Otherwise, it doesn't.

As the original poster said, if the instruction is merely "cleared for takeoff," then you can do turn how you want once you reach what you feel is a safe altitude. If you're only told clear to land, you're free to head straight for the numbers.

 

[MAKG1]

You're still inventing stuff that it doesn't say. While there may be a left or right traffic pattern active, there's no obligation a pilot fly it unless ATC instructs him to do so. If he tells you to make a specific entry or pattern turn or to make a traffic pattern, that applies. Otherwise, it doesn't.

As the original poster said, if the instruction is merely "cleared for takeoff," then you can do turn how you want once you reach what you feel is a safe altitude. If you're only told clear to land, you're free to head straight for the numbers.

Ron, most towers frown upon nonstandard behaviors, such as short approaches or early crosswinds, without requesting it first. If it screws up their spacing, they won't be happy, legal or not.

 

[flyingron]

Ron, most towers frown upon nonstandard behaviors, such as short approaches or early crosswinds, without requesting it first. If it screws up their spacing, they won't be happy, legal or not.

You'll have to explain that to me. I've operated at towered fields sleepy West Virginia strips to metro relievers to some of the busiest class B's in the country, and what I'm proposing isn't "nonstandard" as there is no "standard" for which to comply.

 

[MAKG1]

You'll have to explain that to me. I've operated at towered fields sleepy West Virginia strips to metro relievers to some of the busiest class B's in the country, and what I'm proposing isn't "nonstandard" as there is no "standard" for which to comply.

What you're proposing is "anything goes."

There is a standard pattern. It's in the AIM. We all learned about it in primary training. Try the overhead at a busy Class D, and you'll quickly get an instruction to do something else, perhaps accompanied by the ATC equivalent of "WTF" (say intentions). Same deal with a short approach, crosswind turn before the DER or too low, and so on. While not (usually) illegal, it's disruptive, and instructions will reflect that.

I seriously doubt IAD is ever going to just give you "clear to land" without any other instructions. But it does occasionally happen at smaller airports.

It's not a good idea to surprise controllers.

 

[flyingron]

I can't tell you when I've been told to fly a pattern when a towered field (other than when I asked to stay in one). I'm usually told to enter on a base, or straight in or not told at all how to enter it YES EVEN AT DULLES. In which case I make the most expeditious approach to final, unless told otherwise.

I'm certainly not going to go manouver for a 45 degree entry to downwind, and tower is certainly likely to ask me what the hell I'm doing if I did.