Whatever happened to Civility

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brien23

brien23

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Is it just me or others that believe civility at the airport is worse than years ago. This summer seems to be the worst, don't know if it more people doing dumb things or others ranting their rage on the radio at them.
 
Social/soft skills as a whole have been waning for the past 1-2 decades, and people's conflict resolution abilities along with it.
I would expect any lack of civility observed at an airport is simply another example of that.
 
brien23 said:
Is it just me or others that believe civility at the airport is worse than years ago. This summer seems to be the worst, don't know if it more people doing dumb things or others ranting their rage on the radio at them.
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Why should aviation be any different than everything else?
 
It’s a self centered society. Me me me
 
No different than every other aspect of life where people are jerks.
 
I have yet to encounter an angry pilot on the radio unless you count the guys yelling at the kitty cats on guard.
 
Should I be civil when it’s 30 degrees out and an ATP 172 is parked right in front of the gas pump and is nowhere to be founds Was able to nose up to fuel up when they finally came walking up as I’m almost done filling. Rather than pull the plane ahead so I could put the hose and ground cable away, he decides he’s just gonna pre flight and fire up right there.
 
Not my experience, at least in aviation. Sure, I get a little annoyed at guys trying to barrel straight-in at an airport with a full pattern, but that's just me perceiving it as a rude action and folks generally adjust with reasonable grace. Overall though, the community remains welcoming, happy to share knowledge, and generally pretty courteous.
 
I think it was worse when the first radios were installed in airplanes, then it was just patterns of beeps and long beeps, apparently not a single thing they said passed the censors lol
 
brien23 said:
Is it just me or others that believe civility at the airport is worse than years ago. This summer seems to be the worst, don't know if it more people doing dumb things or others ranting their rage on the radio at them.
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What’s your definition? Is it listed in IG, TikTok or urban dictionary?

A common definition most often requires a society with values in common. As a population, we don’t really have that anymore.

A national aircraft brand and flight school got their business license pulled at their home drone…so now they send their 35 aircraft to stuff the local untowered airports adjacent to a large class B airport on the daily. Charging $90k to students for a commercial ticket makes them entitled….The home based pilots have to contend with full patterns, instructors that love to yak it up to one another on the CTAF while being generally rude to the home drone pilots. More often than not, the little CFIs who feel like the king of the world will try to give a lesson over the radio to other pilots on the pattern that aren’t wearing the same polo shirt they are. Our airport isn’t the only one suffering from this flight school - we are just the closest, and since we don’t charge landing fees like their home base, we are a favorite of theirs.

I think the local pilots association has a betting pool going to see when the first accident this school will cause at my airport.

Civility? Too many letters.


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Llk said:
A national aircraft brand and flight school got their business license pulled at their home drone…so now they send their 35 aircraft to stuff the local untowered airports adjacent to a large class B airport on the daily. Charging $90k to students for a commercial ticket makes them entitled….The home based pilots have to contend with full patterns, instructors that love to yak it up to one another on the CTAF while being generally rude to the home drone pilots. More often than not, the little CFIs who feel like the king of the world will try to give a lesson over the radio to other pilots on the pattern that aren’t wearing the same polo shirt they are. Our airport isn’t the only one suffering from this flight school - we are just the closest, and since we don’t charge landing fees like their home base, we are a favorite of theirs.

I think the local pilots association has a betting pool going to see when the first accident this school will cause at my airport.
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Ha! That sounds like what I experienced when stopping at Coolidge Airport (P08) 2 weeks ago. Just this huge cluster **** of flight school planes that migrate down from the phoenix bravo.

On the radio it was clearly a lot of CFIs keying the mic either having circle-jerk bro talk with their buddies, guys trying to be funny, or in 1 case a guy telling the other pilot what practice approach they should/shouldn't fly and why.

Just a total ****ing disaster. Makes me glad to at least be at a towered field. Was glad to GTFO away from that airport.
 
Llk said:
Our airport isn’t the only one suffering from this flight school - we are just the closest, and since we don’t charge landing fees like their home base, we are a favorite of theirs.
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That's easy... just charge a landing fee for any non based aircraft using the airport more than twice in one day.
 
Dana said:
That's easy... just charge a landing fee for any non based aircraft using the airport more than twice in one day.
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Not as easy as you might think. There is a proposed landing fee for the Delta where I'm based. People str all up in arms and the City Council meeting became a shouting match causing the discussion to be delayed. AGAIN. Once one airport does it, the flight schools (and there are many, including Embry Riddle) send their students to other airports without those fees. This has caused most of the other airports to implement similar landing fees. Avgas at my airport is $1.21 more than fuel nearby, thus when I'm returning home from a trip, I land and fuel at that other airport. If they implement landing fees, that will reduce the benefit of cheaper gas. Added to the aggravation of making a fuel stop when I'm tired aleady will probably force me to buy the more expensive Avgas at home;
 
JOhnH said:
If they implement landing fees, that will reduce the benefit of cheaper gas. Added to the aggravation of making a fuel stop when I'm tired aleady will probably force me to buy the more expensive Avgas at home;
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That's why i suggested landing fees only for aircraft landing there more than once or twice per day. Or as many airports do, waive the fee with fuel purchase.
 
We need some basic society needs to behave lessons starting in elementeray school. Don't litter. Don't spit. Don't park in fire zones. Obey the police. Don't leave your sports bras or dirty diapers in the grocery store parking lots. We need to embrace holding people accountable for these things.
 
Racerx said:
Rather than pull the plane ahead so I could put the hose and ground cable away, he decides he’s just gonna pre flight and fire up right there.
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Carry a couple wire with alligator clips and use them to permanently ground their mags.
 
Doesn’t take much more than reading some POA discussions ro realize why civility is gone. Too many “my d is bigger than yours” discussions. Too many hyper sensitive “but the rules state” so I am right types out there now. How many discussions went down hill about about the pattern at an uncontrolled field spiral, and that is without the guy coming in boldly stating that it is called non-towered field.

And it’s not just POA, it’s all of them. It’s on every social media posting as well.
 
brien23 said:
Is it just me or others that believe civility at the airport is worse than years ago. This summer seems to be the worst, don't know if it more people doing dumb things or others ranting their rage on the radio at them.
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Dumb things do trigger otherwise reasonable people to say something. And some of those dumb things do actually rise to the level of it being a safety isssue.
 
4RNB said:
We need some basic society needs to behave lessons starting in elementeray school. Don't litter. Don't spit. Don't park in fire zones. Obey the police. Don't leave your sports bras or dirty diapers in the grocery store parking lots. We need to embrace holding people accountable for these things.
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How dare you try to raise my children.!!

Is the common phrase when trying to teach manners now.

Even the kids know that when in school if you try to punish them or even try to teach manners then all they have to do is call the parents and the teacher is in trouble.

But otherwise I agree with you. When I was in grade school we had a manners class.
 
Hengelo said:
....kids don’t respect their elders since Aristotle.
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I respect my elders (like @Dave Theisen and Aristotle, who I think are about the same age).

also, I've been flying commercially all my life and honestly I don't personally notice TOO much of a difference. within the last year, I had a flight delayed, delayed, delayed, and then CANCELED and if there ever was a time for people to lose their sh#$ it was then and frankly I was amazed at how civil people handled it. there was one dude who said very loudly "I'm NEVER flying this airline again" and that was pretty much it. yes, people were ****ed and I'm sure the ladies at the check in counter heard about it but there were no fights, no one being dragged out by their hair, no once screamed racism (most surprisingly) and it was only when someone asked if they were telling us everything and they said no, we're also out of coffee that the place went apesh*t.
 
My grandmother once told me that good manners and courtesy were the grease that made society work better for everyone. I try to remember that every day, but I am not always successful.
 
brien23 said:
Is it just me or others that believe civility at the airport is worse than years ago. This summer seems to be the worst, don't know if it more people doing dumb things or others ranting their rage on the radio at them.
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I think civility started dying in the late 80's and early 90's. You can hear in the song lyrics. Those of us for whom those years were formative are largely to blame as we started losing the skills and failed to pass them on to our children. We like to think that we have the skills - but we we dont.
 
Jon Howard said:
I think civility started dying in the late 80's and early 90's. You can hear in the song lyrics. Those of us for whom those years were formative are largely to blame as we started losing the skills and failed to pass them on to our children. We like to think that we have the skills - but we we dont.
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disagree.
 
Zeldman said:
Even the kids know that when in school if you try to punish them or even try to teach manners then all they have to do is call the parents and the teacher is in trouble.
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Yeah, that part is so sad and true. All the entitled moms that can't count to 20 without removing their shoes, but get all angry and belligerant with a teacher that has a couple master's degrees in education when their disrespectful uneducated brat gets a D- because all he wrote in his homework assignment was "I din't feel like doing it".
If we did that I'm sure the teacher would've gotten flowers and maybe a gift card, and we would've sat down very carefully for a few days.
Today, that would be a week-long ban from using a computer/phone/tablet for anything other than homework in my book. And definitely no dessert.
 
I correlate the decline of civility directly with the social acceptability of profanity.
I grew up as my dads tag along, often being in the local pubs at noon when three martini lunches were a common thing for the area buisness owners and investors and it was alway very civil. Foul, vulgar, profain talk had zero tolerance and anybody doing it was very clearly made to know they were in the wrong place and not welcome there. Men would discuss different perspectives and opinions on complex topics including politics, but nobody got angry, no yelling, no digression into personal attacks, people could disagree and it was okay.
 
When kids get out of line these days they get to take their phone, ipad, & X-box and go to their room for "time-out" ... :stirpot:
 
Daleandee said:
When kids get out of line these days they get to take their phone, ipad, & X-box and go to their room for "time-out" ... :stirpot:
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Au contraire - I've found that the threat of no screen time for the foreseeable future is a great motivator for good behavior.
 
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