What is needed for Instrument Flight Training?

WDD

WDD

Final Approach
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Vintage Snazzy (so my adult children say)
I've passed the written, ready for flight training.

I already have ForeFlight, and a set of foggles. Planes I'll be renting will have either a GTN 650 or 340 W.

Sporty's IFR syllabus? What do I don't know I don't know?

THANKS
 
You'll need some cooperative weather and a maintenance staff that's attentive.
 
Review the FAA IR ACS...
 
FAR AIM, Instrument pilot handbook, paper charts, low enroute chart, timer, papers pads, aviation weather handbook.
 
@eman1200 and @WannFly summed it up. You need a CFII and lotsa $$ (remember your private days?? Remember that drain on your account?). And maybe a buddy who can act as a safety pilot for practice approaches (after you and your aforementioned II went up to do the approaches). I just went through it. You got this. Just keep studying the ground stuff and fly the procedures. Even more rewarding than private once you get it!
 
This is worth buying:
https://www.amazon.com/Instrument-Pilot-Oral-Exam-Guide/dp/1619540975

I downloaded the faa books in pdf form.

I recommend a subscription to ifr magazine... you can learn a LOT, and a subscription buys you access to pdfs of all the back issues. Then you'll have a monthly refresher to keep your head in the game after you're rated.

I got some value out of a simulator, and the sim challenges in ifr mag are good to get you thinking.

Most of it's just flying; not a lot of gear needed.
 
Dang... just checked back in on this thread and yes... @Jim K good one... I used The Red Book extensively prepping for the practical. And I just discovered IFR Magazine after getting the rating - a fantastic publication!
 
I think the most important thing to do before you go buy random things, is find an instructor and see what they use and suggest. Especially when it comes to syllabi, it doesn't do you any good to buy one if your instructor uses another.

When an instrument (or private, or any other rating) student comes to me having already bought the full "Sporty's IFR kit", or "Gleim IFR kit" or "Jepp IFR kit", or any other set, while I appreciate their motivation, more often than not it's not one I am used to using, nor did I plan on using it. I kind of "sigh" to myself, because if they had contacted me beforehand, I would have told them precisely "this is what you need, don't bother with that thing, those books are good, but those are unnecessary, I use my own syllabus, etc." Often I will try to make it work with whatever they have, but realistically, that takes more time and effort (and cost) than if we're using what I know.
 
PaulS said:
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I didn't bother to count but if you harvested all that particular money tree's fruit, you'd only have enough for one lesson. On the other hand, you could have a Washington money tree grove and do okay but if you don't have the space, I'd suggest a Franklin money tree.
 
I just did my training then when I was getting through it I used ASA Instrument Prep book and oral. It’s around $30. You don’t really need anything else that websites sell for IFR. Just a good spot to put your iPad but even using the mounts great, now I just keep my iPad on my lap and put it in a side pocket or under my arm when I’m not using it or descending so it doesn’t slide down.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I didn't bother to count but if you harvested all that particular money tree's fruit, you'd only have enough for one lesson. On the other hand, you could have a Washington money tree grove and do okay but if you don't have the space, I'd suggest a Franklin money tree.
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Damn, you're right, need to get one of these instead.

golden goose.jpg
 
WDD said:
I've passed the written, ready for flight training.

I already have ForeFlight, and a set of foggles. Planes I'll be renting will have either a GTN 650 or 340 W.

Sporty's IFR syllabus? What do I don't know I don't know?

THANKS
Click to expand...

Find an instructor and go fly. Once you've passed the written, the most tedious part is over. Learn to fly your plane(s) by the numbers, and maybe study up on knobology of the GPS boxes. I swear to God that almost the most difficult part of smooth IFR operation, especially with an integrated autopilot. Sometimes it's challenging to get the boxes to do what you intended.
 
chemgeek said:
Find an instructor and go fly.
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I completely agree with this. Your first bunch of flights will be basic flight maneuvers using the foggles. After that, your instructor will tell you what you need. My only other suggestion is that if you are using a plane with a GTN650 once you start IFR navigation and approaches, download the GTN650 simulator for iPad.
 
One thing i did before I started that helped was practice tuning, identifying, intercepting, and tracking VOR's. Timing turns also. If you search 'ifr patterns' you'll find some suggestions for practice. As mentioned above, know the numbers for your plane to fly level as well as descend at 500'/min @ 90 knots (or whatever your approach speed is). If you can get those skills polished up a little, it will make the training go much easier. Instrument flying is really just a combination of those skills with reading charts and pushing the right buttons in the right order. At the same time. Without being able to see anything. While taking to atc.
 
How long is IFR training vs PPL? Soem say the same but others say it can be done in 2-3 months flying 2-3 times a week.
 
Trogdor said:
How long is IFR training vs PPL? Soem say the same but others say it can be done in 2-3 months flying 2-3 times a week.
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You can't compare the two in terms of time. Some people may be better or worse at the type of skills used in IFR vs PPL.
 
Trogdor said:
How long is IFR training vs PPL? Soem say the same but others say it can be done in 2-3 months flying 2-3 times a week.
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For me it was about the same as ppl....3 months flying 2-3 times a week.

You need 40 hours hood/actual. I did all of mine with a cfii, and when i got it done I was ready for the checkride. If you need practice at flying precisely (maintaining altitude, speed, and course within ACS standards), you could probably do that with a safety pilot, but i was fairly good at that going in. I fly out of a class c and often use flight following, so I was comfortable on the radios, which I guess a lot of folks struggle with. Getting your xc time before you start is worthwhile.

Instrument is more dependent on your willingness to hit the books outside the airplane. A lot of it is knowledge of what to do when. Once you understand the rules and procedures, the actual flying is easy... it's staying ahead of the airplane that's hard, but it comes with practice.
 
WDD said:
I've passed the written, ready for flight training.

I already have ForeFlight, and a set of foggles. Planes I'll be renting will have either a GTN 650 or 340 W.

Sporty's IFR syllabus? What do I don't know I don't know?

THANKS
Click to expand...

sounds to me like you need a CFI.
 
WDD said:
I've passed the written, ready for flight training.

I already have ForeFlight, and a set of foggles. Planes I'll be renting will have either a GTN 650 or 340 W.

Sporty's IFR syllabus? What do I don't know I don't know?

THANKS
Click to expand...

Make sure you have adequate time between lessons. Too many lessons back to back without time to think and digest the information would resulted in wasted effort.
 
Don't forget you'll need the approach plates for FF. Your instructor may wish some paper ones as well.

sarangan said:
Make sure you have adequate time between lessons. Too many lessons back to back without time to think and digest the information would resulted in wasted effort.
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I disagree. While if you mean "back to back" like within an hour of each other, then yes. But spacing things out for days/weeks is just about as counterproductive. I did the 10 day (well in my case 8 day) IFR course. It's not for everybody, but I found it more effective than what I'd tried over the years to get the rating.
 
Jim K said:
For me it was about the same as ppl....3 months flying 2-3 times a week.

You need 40 hours hood/actual. I did all of mine with a cfii, and when i got it done I was ready for the checkride. If you need practice at flying precisely (maintaining altitude, speed, and course within ACS standards), you could probably do that with a safety pilot, but i was fairly good at that going in. I fly out of a class c and often use flight following, so I was comfortable on the radios, which I guess a lot of folks struggle with. Getting your xc time before you start is worthwhile.

Instrument is more dependent on your willingness to hit the books outside the airplane. A lot of it is knowledge of what to do when. Once you understand the rules and procedures, the actual flying is easy... it's staying ahead of the airplane that's hard, but it comes with practice.
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That's my impression of it too. I should be done with my PPL this month (cross fingers) and I will have my IFR exam done as well. I'm just trying to see if I should continue with lessons or go off and get 50 XC done first etc.
 
flyingron said:
Don't forget you'll need the approach plates for FF. Your instructor may wish some paper ones as well.



I disagree. While if you mean "back to back" like within an hour of each other, then yes. But spacing things out for days/weeks is just about as counterproductive. I did the 10 day (well in my case 8 day) IFR course. It's not for everybody, but I found it more effective than what I'd tried over the years to get the rating.
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You can disagree, but I've had several students, who are busy professionals, show up for lessons every other day trying to get their IFR fast, but they had not spent any time between to review or prepare. We end up repeating everything and wasting time and money. One needs to spend about twice the number of hours on the ground reviewing and studying as the flight hours. Even as a CFI I spend about an hour of time preparing for each flight hour with a student.
 
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Trogdor said:
How long is IFR training vs PPL? Soem say the same but others say it can be done in 2-3 months flying 2-3 times a week.
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Highly variable. Basically, you fly until you accumulate your 40 hours. By the time you get to the end of that, you may feel thoroughly over-trained and more than ready to fly the checkride. I recommend getting as much actual IFR as you can to keep things interesting but also to gain practical experience in real weather, including pre-flight and in-flight decision-making. That was an amazing confidence boost for me during training, and encouragement to use my IFR ticket after earning the rating.

My personal experience was about 4 months from April-August, squeezed in around working full-time. I trained in my own plane with a CFII I met at my place of work at the college. (Good find!)
 
chemgeek said:
Highly variable. Basically, you fly until you accumulate your 40 hours. By the time you get to the end of that, you may feel thoroughly over-trained and more than ready to fly the checkride. I recommend getting as much actual IFR as you can to keep things interesting but also to gain practical experience in real weather, including pre-flight and in-flight decision-making. That was an amazing confidence boost for me during training, and encouragement to use my IFR ticket after earning the rating.

My personal experience was about 4 months from April-August, squeezed in around working full-time. I trained in my own plane with a CFII I met at my place of work at the college. (Good find!)
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Feeling over trained is a good thing flying single pilot IFR. I took longer than 40 hours, I'm thinking many people do, but maybe not. But my goal was to be comfortable flying IFR by myself, after I passed the checkride. I made that goal.
 
sarangan said:
You can disagree, but I've had several students, who are busy professionals, show up for lessons every other day trying to get their IFR fast, but they had not spent any time between to review or prepare. We end up repeating everything and wasting time and money. One needs to spend about twice the number of hours on the ground reviewing and studying as the flight hours. Even as a CFI I spend about an hour of time preparing for each flight hour with a student.
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I think we're saying different things then. You seem to equate a lesson with flight time. I'm including the ground time in that. There's nothing to be gained by giving a student time to forget things. Now a given student may not have the mental and physical stamina to go back-to-back, but I'm not buying that there's some "learning" theory that requires a period of slacking off between lessons.

I know the students you're talking about. I used to see them all the time when I was working with the flying club. They have a stressful job all day, show up around six or so and then want to cram a lesson in even when they are in no mental shape to do it.

Even the PIC thing is laughable unless you're well-rested and have NOTHING else going on that week. It's laughable that they imply you can do other things that week.
 
sarangan said:
You can disagree, but I've had several students, who are busy professionals, show up for lessons every other day trying to get their IFR fast, but they had not spent any time between to review or prepare.
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As a former busy professional, trying to do an IFR cram without totally shutting down the professional time is a recipe for it not working. I did a 7 day course (needed 10 hours and written passed before starting). I definitely learned better than when doing my PP on weekends. Basically each day was all IFR all day. Breakfast, Dinner, sleep and fly. No studying, just 6 hours in the air, brief and debrief each day. There is no way I could have done anything work related during that marathon. Things turned to muscle memory vs thinking about it. Won't work for everyone, but certainly did for me.
 
Anyone care to share how much an accelerated course costs (give or take)?
 
Trogdor said:
Anyone care to share how much an accelerated course costs (give or take)?
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arm-and-a-leg.png

 
Trogdor said:
Anyone care to share how much an accelerated course costs (give or take)?
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I did it a few years back. It cost me $5000 for the ten days of instruction (which I got $500 back because one day was completely unused) plus I had to put up the instructor at a local Hampton Inn (paid for by me so I got the points). I also had small expenditures for charts and a recent printed FAR/AIM. You're expected to have most of your 50 hours XC time worked off in advance (I had it all) and your instrument written passed before you start. We trained in my plane, so I don't have the costs but it was 23 hours of flying time (we opted to ditch the simulator and do most of the work in my plane).
 
I am wondering if I can do it in a club plane? Anyone do that?

I have my written done but need to build my XC time which I plan to do over the next several months.
 
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